Playing too rough - out of control!!

starcrossd03

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
7
Purraise
0
Location
Savannah, GA
We have a 1 1/2 year old neutered kitty named Bruno. We've had him since he was a baby, and he has always played rough. We've tried everything we can think of (I've spent many hours on these forums!) since he was little to try & train him out of scratching and biting, but he absolutely refuses to be redirected. My cat scares me! There are times he won't let me walk past him until he bites me. When we try to redirect him, he looks right past his toy to us.

Our vet & other people suggested that maybe he needed a playmate, so about 2 months ago we got a 1 1/2 year old female named Lola. We introduced them slowly & carefully, following the directions here, and it went really well. Very little hissing, etc., and that was all over within a few hours once they were finally in the apartment together.

However, he's now trying to play with her the same way that he plays with us. He holds her down & bites her. He doesn't draw blood, but she HOWLS, and has now started hissing & growling at him when he starts attacking her.

Bruno only has 2 modes: attacking & sleeping. He's antagonizing Lola or us probably 40% of the time when we're home. We can't sleep through the night because of their fighting, and when we separate them they both scratch at the doors to get out. Our apartment isn't that large, so there's really very little that we can do to get them away from each other and away from us.

We're thinking that we might have to try to find a home environment for him that would be better, although at this point I don't even know what that would be. He's a huge stress in our household. I feel SO HORRIBLE saying all of this...I've volunteered with shelters and rescue groups for the past 6 years, and never thought I would be in such a terrible situation with one of my own animals.

We're willing to try anything at this point...does anyone have any suggestions?
 

solaritybengals

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
2,359
Purraise
5
Location
Raleigh, NC
Wow thats a tough one. Have you tried startling him with a loud sound (coins in a bottle) when he attacks you? Everytime you see him about to pounce you could shake the bottle at him.

I feel bad for Lola. It sounds like he never learned to play nice. How long have you had the 2 of them now? All this time he has never learned his playing is to rough but Lola can tell him that through cat language (hissing and growling). Eventually he might "get it" or he might not care.

It could be a psychological thing. Have you talked to the vet about it? I've never had to suggest this but especially with your other cat and not wanting ot rehome him...you might look into some medication....but as a last resort...

It sounds like you have probably tried everything else...providing as much stimulation as possible. When your gone put on a kitty video, make sure he has scratching surfaces, play with him everyday with feathers or such. Treat him for being good.

Oooh here's an idea! Clicker training! Have you looked in that? Once you form basic communication between the two of you you can start reforming habits through the clicker. At the same time its a bonding activity and he might come around purely because he might bond stronger with you! That one might be the ticket
.
 

sweets

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Nov 4, 2003
Messages
1,671
Purraise
1
Location
Living in the land of not enough time
As much as its frowned on here...I've used the spray bottle successfully.

When my boys would start getting too rough with each other, I'd aim the spray at their bottom or belly. Never aim at their face. Most of the time, they never got more than a mist which didn't reach them, but it stopped the fight. Now, I just reach for the bottle and they separate.
 

solaritybengals

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
2,359
Purraise
5
Location
Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by Sweets

As much as its frowned on here...I've used the spray bottle successfully.
IMO spray bottles work great. Usually you don't have to do it to often before they learn what is allowed and what isn't. It sounds like in your situation you'll have to walk around the house iwht one though...
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

starcrossd03

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
7
Purraise
0
Location
Savannah, GA
Thanks for the responses! I have tried the spray bottle...at first it shocked him a little, but at this point it doesn't even phase him, and after reading more about it I stopped using it. (We did have to have it on hand 24/7!) Right now his main discipline is "time out" and loud noises...as soon as he looks like he's going to attack we say "No" in a low voice and, if he doesn't back off, he gets put in the bathroom. We try to engage him with his toys, and as long as Lola doesn't get too upset with him, we let them play without interrupting. She lets him know when she's done by hissing at him, and if he doesn't chill, then it's time out again.

I think I'm going to try Feliway and see if that helps at all...for anyone who's familiar with it, does that sound like something that could work? I have talked to the vet about Bruno's issues, and she suggested medication...if Feliway doesn't work, that'll be the next step.
 

nekomimi

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
321
Purraise
1
Location
Boston area
Have you tried an air can? My cat hates it!! It is harmless, but makes a really loud hissing sound which sends my kitten running. I only use it when she's going to do something that will hurt her or if she's being really naughty.

You can buy them at Staples for really cheap!
 

madpiano

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
165
Purraise
1
Location
London, UK
It might be a little late, but have you tried blowing air at him when he plays too rough ? My kitten initally left me looking like I had a fight with a rosebush, every time we were playing. But I kept blowing at his face, every time he bit or scratched and he has stopped now, only patting me with his claws well out the way. He still tries biting, but only carefully. Just as if he would want to check, if he still gets a nasty air blast in his face, if he tries. It's quite funny. It will obviously not help with your other cat, but it might safe your arms, hand and feet.
 

nekomimi

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
321
Purraise
1
Location
Boston area
Originally Posted by madpiano

It might be a little late, but have you tried blowing air at him when he plays too rough ? My kitten initally left me looking like I had a fight with a rosebush, every time we were playing. But I kept blowing at his face, every time he bit or scratched and he has stopped now, only patting me with his claws well out the way. He still tries biting, but only carefully. Just as if he would want to check, if he still gets a nasty air blast in his face, if he tries. It's quite funny. It will obviously not help with your other cat, but it might safe your arms, hand and feet.
That works for me as well, but when I can't reach Seth in time and she's getting into deep trouble, I grab the air can to scare her.

And be sure to not pull away while getting bitten!!
 

rockreno

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Dec 3, 2005
Messages
35
Purraise
1
Location
Guilford, CT
less
starcrossd03 said:
When we try to redirect him, he looks right past his toy to us.QUOTE]

Althugh it sounds like you've probably read a lot of good advice already, for what it's worth, I've had several experiences with overly aggressive cats. Except for one cat I'm convinced was just crazy, I managed to "cure" all of them from the aggression.

IMHO, one way or another, it almost always boils down to overstimulation. Every aggressive cat I've known either never had an opportunity to play with kittens (e.g., he was a stray at an early age), was abused as a kitten, or has an unusually low threshold to overstimulation (think of it as kitty ADD). So I believe that your efforts to "redirect" Bruno's attention to cat toys (or provide stimulation -- as SolarityBengals suggested) is likely only to make matters worse. Until Bruno learns to control his aggression, I would not initiate any play with him. Instead, keep some toys in a basket or hanging for solitary play, and some scratching pads (the cosmic alpine climber is the best I have found for this). Your only interaction should be petting and feeding him (I would postpone grooming for now as well). Initiate petting him often, but as soon as he starts to get aggressive (e.g., backing away from your hand, rolling over and holding his paws up, grabbing you with his paws, or opening his mouth), gently cease all contact and walk away from him (and make sure that all family and visitors do the same). This accomplishes three things. 1) it immediately ceases stimulation when he starts to act up, depriving him of an object for his aggression; 2) it teaches him that he will lose affection when he becomes aggressive, which is a powerful way to teach him appropriate play because at bottom cats want affection more than just about anything else; and 3) perhaps most important, it teaches Bruno that you will respect his boundaries. In my experience a lot of cat aggression towards people stems from a real or perceived inability to control the interaction. Once they learn to trust their people (i.e., that you will stop petting him or holding him when he wants, and that he will not be held "prisoner"), he will no longer feel it necessary to become aggressive. I would exepct this to take at least a couple of weeks to have some effect.

As for his attacks when you walk by, it is either inapproriate play or he is perceiving his space as being invaded. My cat Harry - who constantly seeks attention from me and, unlike most cats, loves to be picked up -- tends to become aggressive when anyone tries to pet him when he is lying down. I can only assume that he feels vulnerable and threatened in that position. I would make a conscious effort to give him a wide berth whenever you walk by. If he tends to place himself in the middle of foot traffic, or if he "hunts" you down, stop two or three feet away from him, Say, "No!" or "Move!" in a deep command, and clap your hands loudly (I am also a fan of the spritzer water bottle, but since you are not likely to carry it at all times, and it makes everything wet, a loud clap is more convenient). Make sure he moves out of the way or ceases his "attack" mode before you continue walking. This worked quite well with my female, Sam, who would sit at the top of the steps, growling, hissing, and striking at anyone that walked by -- especially the other cats (Harry, Reno, and Rocky).

As for Lola, try the loud No and clapping whenever Bruno gets too rough with her, and charge him down (i.e., loudly run toward him clapping and saying No) if he doesn't stop . But be careful to limit this very threatening behavior to times when he is posing a danger to Lola (this will help to communicate how seriously he is misbehaving). Also be careful to act neutrally to split them up unless you are certain that Bruno is misbehaving, rather than that Lola is being overly defensive.

Respect Bruno's alpha position by acknowledging him first, greeting him first, feeding him first, etc, and keeping Lola out of his favorite places. Also, try not to pet Lola in front of him without petting him as well. In addition, my experience has been that it is typical for males (at least the alpha male in the household) to "pounce" on females periodically and that the best companion for a young male cat is an even younger male cat (so young that your alpha male will think of him as his kitten). So one solution might be to find a new home for Lola, and in a few months bring home a 4-8 month male for Bruno to "find" as his kitten.

As for the medication, I would use it as a last resort, primarily because the trauma of giving him a pill may perpetuate the aggression. But in my experience, mild tranquilizers do make cats gentler and more loving. We used them on Sam when we first got her at 4 years old, because she had spent her whole life being defensively aggressive towards other cats, so she wasn't giving my three males a chance. Although it was a long process with her, two years later, she is in love with my alpha cat, Reno, and is making lots of friendly overtures to the other two (trying hard to overcome her initial hostile conduct toward them). I believe the kitty drugs definitely helped her out in the beginning because they tended to make her very affectionate and sort of lovey dovey.

Hope this helps and good luck.
 
Top