Looking for a cat to fit my needs

as stated above i dont want a dog. I like cats and want a cat. i simply want a cat that I can take out and enjoy the fresh air with.

honestly now that i think about it i have had totaly unbreed cats and they do come when called once they learn to recognize a cirtain call such as for food or attention. but since i expect to take my cat outside of the house i am hoping to find a breed where this tendancy is much more pronounced and consistant.

think of it as when one of you is looking for a cat with exadurated phisical traits like flat face, long hair, no hair, or huge ears. instead i am looking for a cat with an exadurated mental trait.

Originally Posted by WellingtonCats

I just can't forsee any cat breed (no matter how friendly they are in your home) that would enjoy roaming in a big park when there would possibly be lots of children, dogs and road noise. Cats just aren't dogs.

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So true. I hope I did not unintentionally mislead you, Bluewolf, when I said a Turkish Van is a dog in a cat suit. That was of course facetious, prompted by certain attributes had by many of the breed. I wouldn't even consider taking Samwise and Molly outdoors.

totaly understood beach bum and i followed the refference.

its actually funny to me how suddenly every one is becoming concerned as if I want a franken cat or as if letting a cat outside is some sort of cruel treatment. except for exotic breeds with exadurated features most cats are not very far removed from their totaly wild counterparts. so many people want to remind me that "cats are not dogs" as if to say cats cannot survive outside while I want to say "cats are not dogs" to express that cats have much greater natural ability to survive outside.

having said that i in no way intend to have an "outdoor" cat. I simply want an indoor cat that can go outside on occation in a situation where outside does not happen to be out of my front or back door.

why is that so worrisome to so many of you?

Originally Posted by bluewolf

totaly understood beach bum and i followed the refference.

its actually funny to me how suddenly every one is becoming concerned as if I want a franken cat or as if letting a cat outside is some sort of cruel treatment. except for exotic breeds with exadurated features most cats are not very far removed from their totaly wild counterparts. so many people want to remind me that "cats are not dogs" as if to say cats cannot survive outside while I want to say "cats are not dogs" to express that cats have much greater natural ability to survive outside.

having said that i in no way intend to have an "outdoor" cat. I simply want an indoor cat that can go outside on occation in a situation where outside does not happen to be out of my front or back door.

why is that so worrisome to so many of you?

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I really hesitate to go further with this, Bluewolf, since this thread is beginning to show troublesome signs of perhaps becoming personal, and I have quite rightly gotten in trouble for that before on TCS. However, I will give all of us the benefit of the doubt and take your question as being a serious inquiry looking for a serious answer, i.e., "Why are [your suggestions] so worrisome to so many of [us]."?

I cannot speak for "many of us," but only for myself. Perhaps some other of the TCSers would like to speak for themselves. I am egotistical enough to make a prediction, only to myself, about what most might say.

For me, at some length I might offer the following.

I have cared for cats of all breeds, ages and personalities for almost as long as I have lived, and that is more than 70 years, and I and my lovely lady Ann have been associated with many, many other "cat people" throughout our lives. In all that time we have known of but two cats who themselves, and their keepers, somewhat happily tolerated a leash. In both cases the keepers walked around with their leashed cats in a continuous state of fear that they might escape, and in both cases the "cat on a leash" was simply used as a way to induce wonder on the part of observing strangers. I sadly recall that one of these cats had inhumanely had its front claws removed, making it even more endangered.

These were not "trained" cats, and I will honestly state that "trained cat" is in my opinion an oxymoron. Some cats may only occasionally be conditioned to respond in a certain way to certain positive or negative stimuli, but this is far from common.

I cannot hazard a guess with respect to how many members we have on TCS, but in generally accepted mathematical terminology, it is "a bunch." With the possibility of exceptions whom I have not met, these TCSers share a love and dedication to these charming critters which in many cases, as in mine, border on obsession. Browse around the forums and you will see the major common theme of "how do I best meet my obligation to care for these wonderful creatures?" The negative vibes you seem to perceive are, I would suggest, but a measure of the undying love your readers have for their dear pets.

I will go so far as to say that I think that to leash one of the most independent creatures in the animal world amounts to inhumane treatment. I am perhaps far out when I say this, but I will venture to guess that if a poll were taken of TCSers more would at least frown on the practice than would approve of the practice. I think the same would be true of any efforts to train a pet cat to wander loose in strange circumstances while being expected to return to its master. Cats do not have masters. Many cat keepers do -- the cat itself, of course.

To put a cat in these circumstances, whether or not on a leash, could be expected to expose the being which we love so much to dangers with which it is not capable of protecting itself. I just cannot agree with your view of a cat's ability to survive outside. A cat is so very defenseless against its many natural predators, but, unfortunately, a cat often thinks otherwise and is prepared to engage in losing deadly combat on a moment's notice.

To close, it is also my opinion that taking a cat outdoors, leashed or not, exposes him or her unnecessarily to disease. Browse around the web and you most likely can find several, if not many, comparisons of the life spans of indoor and outdoor cats.

I can only hope that you accept this response to your question in the spirit in which it is intended, as I really think your question is a good question, and that it deserves a serious answer, which I have tried to provide in as good taste as possible.

All the very best from the other side of the world,

Ah I see. so it if i understand correctly it was my suggestion of a leash (phisical or electronic) that has every one in a tither. I assure you the leash idea was simply a result of mental brainstorming over training aids in order to achieve a goal, and not intended as a goal to be achieved in its own right.

As I have not show or breeding background I think my view of "training" may be inherantly different from some people. to me "training" is more or less establishing a language between you and your pet. once the pet understands that two snaps and a whistle means "come here I have something for you" or I figure out that a long low meow from the kitchen door area means "hey dood i need some grub" I consider me and my pet trained for that.

I am not the type to "train" my pet to sit or roll over. be it a dog, cat, or hamster. I just want to be able to "speak" to my pet.

this is not actually unusual. most ever one does it in one form or another.

as for the rest I believe its simply a matter of taste... some people will put a gold fish in a cup of water and consider the mater settled while others will fill an 80 gallon tank with all maner of props and toys with perfectly balanced water temperatur and chemical additives to provide the perfect environment for their fishy friend. In my personal view of caring for my cat access to the outdoors fills a void in a cats life. I can live without music and can probably have a wonderfull life in the total absence of music, but for a human being hearing music from time to time fills a cirtain mental void. thus my quest is to find a way to have a cat and fill that void in the best manner.

I appreciate your reply because i was beginning to feel surrounded by accusing fingers and i could not figure out why the sudden change in people. but i feel like i understand the situation more and have a better understanding of your concers.

I truly don't believe you can just go shopping and find a cat to "fit your needs". Cats are individuals just like a person. You are not going to find a cat to meet each and every item on your long list of requirements. I hope that you can be open to adjusting your lifestyle to meet the needs of your pet when you decide to get one.

I'm not against halter/leash training and I know many people aren't. I think a concern I would have is that, though yes you could better guarentee a certain personality trait in a breed, there is no Absolute guarantee. What if the cat you paid a lot of money for just wasn't interested? (oh by the way many breeders do ship internationally)

I took a lot of time with my cat to condition to others, taking her to stores with me that allowed pets and such. She did fine as a kitten but as she grew it got harder and harder to handle her where there was so much uncertainty... meaning people and children and possibly dogs.. I tried and realized it just wasn't what she wanted and so I stopped trying purely because I saw how stressed out she would get. She also became very nervous in the car. I also took her to places that were less crowded and it was just as bad. However, if I walked her around my home area she would be fine.

Cats are very territorial. They need their own territory and that will be the only place he feels comfortable. Dogs will follow their pack leader blindly. Maybe that is also why people keep asking if you wouldn't rather a dog. Cats can suddenly freak out and then you are liable. They only feel comfortable on home territory (which can in fact include a car, or a place you take the cat frequently, but not changing scenes constantly). Cats thrive off of routine and get very upset/Stressed when you change routine/setting.

Then again I've known some cats that just love going everywhere with their owners! Oh how wonderful that would be but these are usually the rare exception and come in all breeds including moggies. Maybe what you should look into are the "laid back" breeds. One thing about bengals and savannahs is they are very strong willed and can be very stubborn because they know what they want. There are many breeds that could care less about a child tugging on their fur or sudden noises. But then again these breeds may not like being on leash (which I would recommend over free roaming). Cats will seek territory its only natural, as you said they are not that far removed from a wild ancestor, and that is how the wild ancestor works. They do not have a pack mentality and don't owe you any loyalty even with a very deep bond.

Just a point to add - you can never train a cat to come when called 100% of the time. Mine know their names and will usually come - or more likely, will come and sit within 3 meters of me while they decide if it is worth their while coming any closer, in other words, what have I got for them? Mine are all indoor/outdoor cats as like you, I do believe in giving them access to the outside if it is possible to do so. I 'train' them on a harness from around 4 months till I feel they know their way home, then gradually let them out by themselves at 6 months or so. But I am very aware that it is their choice and I have to convince them to live with me, not the other way round.

all understandable points.

I know that i am not guaranteed a cat that will be exactly as i wish it to be. in fact I hedge my bets against it no matter what the breed. but if i want a cat that likes water i am probably going to have more luck if i get a turkish van than if i get a pursan or your average domestic short hair.

as me and my cat grow togeather I expect that we will fully work out our relationship.

Originally Posted by bluewolf

totaly understood beach bum and i followed the refference.

its actually funny to me how suddenly every one is becoming concerned as if I want a franken cat or as if letting a cat outside is some sort of cruel treatment. except for exotic breeds with exadurated features most cats are not very far removed from their totaly wild counterparts. so many people want to remind me that "cats are not dogs" as if to say cats cannot survive outside while I want to say "cats are not dogs" to express that cats have much greater natural ability to survive outside.

having said that i in no way intend to have an "outdoor" cat. I simply want an indoor cat that can go outside on occation in a situation where outside does not happen to be out of my front or back door.

why is that so worrisome to so many of you?

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You have to add into the equation something that cats shouldn't have to naturally deal with and that is cars. Cat's get run over by cars way too much. Now add into the mix that cats that are domestic were not raised with the ability to see predators as predators. Most of the time cats are raised around dogs so they do not see them as a huge danger. For instance my cats are in an enclosed patio where they can see my dog. They are perfectly safe behind the patio walls and some electric wire but they can see my 170 lb. bull mastiff. They are no longer afraid of him. Now if they were romaing around at the park they probably wouldn't try and get away from a dog that looked like him. My dog hates cats and if he ever got a hold of one he'd kill the cat.
I had a siamese cat that was an indoor/outdoor cat and one night he was laying right on the doorstep. I heard an aweful noise and I looked out the window and saw two dogs playing tug of war with him. I still cannot get that image out of my mind. Ever since then I do not let my cats out unless they are on a leash and I have a way to protect them. The only cats I let stay outside is those that "adopt me" which are strays that come around and I feed.
Most breeders and any responsible breeder would require on thier contract that if you purchase a cat you cannot let them roam free outside. I have that on my contracts as well and indeed I would refuse to sell any of my kittens to someone who wants an indoor/outdoor cat. I am very attached to my kittens by the time they are ready for new homes and I just could'nt in good conscience let my kittens go to a home where I think the will be in danger.

It's not about the leash. I know plenty of people here on TCS that take their babies out on leashes that's cool. I just think you'll get a big shock when you take your kitty out and let him/her loose in a 3km park and then he/she doesn't come when called!

The problem is that a breed doesn't guarantee a type of personality. A friend of mine adopted a wonderful adult cat some time ago. She is madly in love with her, Gatuna is a very special cat. We imagine that she's a cross breed of Norwegian.

She travels a lot as she lives in Toledo and her b/f in Valencia. Gatuna travels great.

When she finally decided for the second cat (two is the cats she can manage travalling) she chose a persian, thinking they were quiet, tranquil cat. Grisina is a hyperactive, disobedient, pestering little kit (just like I love them), and is driving my friend and Gatuna slowly crazy...

Ragdolls are supposedly easy to train although any thing trained in my house where the cats are concerned is me. But, some breeders claim they train easily and can be trained on a leash, they are also called dogs in cats suits. My cats always come when I call them, when they want attention, but out side is a different story alltogether, they get freaked out and hide they wont even come to me, and their my babies, but I never allow them to go out so if they were used to being out on leashes they would probley do better, A woman that is sort of my mentor has sold two boys to a woman, they are so calm they take the cats camping, they walk on leashes or when tired ride in the stroller, so they can get used to it, but if the cat wants to. I also have a contract that requires them to be indoor kitties only, and if some one told me they wanted an indoor/outdoor kitty I would tell them another breeder they could try buying one from, but im sure they will feel the same, no cats of mine out with no leash. But, I think if done properly a ragdoll would be another breed along with the others mentioned could some what be what your looking at, start with that list and research these breeds till you have so much info on them, and then research some more.

Check out the Manx. But be aware, you may not get
one that likes the leash.

My Didi baby (an all black mutt found in a litter
of Himalayans) never went on a leash. He
was an indoor outdoor fearless cat, until
I moved to Crystal City, VA. A city place,
he could not go out amid the high rises.
Until, one day I got the bright idea, i'd
put him on a leash and walk him!!

Well I took him out on the leash (in the middle
of a city, although at night when all was quiet)
he took to it like a duck to water, LOL!!!

None the other indoor/outdoor cats I've owned
would EVER go on a leash.

My other cat was so scared she sat down
and refused to move on the leash. She
was NOT leaving the apt!!

I think its because Didi was so bonded to me -
he's just one of the most awesome cool Dude
cats I've ever had. And he's a mutt...

Here's the Manx specs:

http://www.fanciers.com/breed-faqs/manx-faq.html