Question About Persians

I just got a male persian today and I think maybe he is older than the breeder told me. He is bigger than the other kitten the breeder had left, and he has a tail with a couple of "kinks" in it. I'm thinking when we looked interested in him, the breeder just decided not to tell us that the kitten was older, maybe because had trouble selling him due to the tail? This poor kitten is so scared of people. But that's another story.

Anyway, are some persians born with kinks in their tail? Or is it more likely he was stepped on or had his tail shut in the door? I don't know if there's anything I can or should do for it... It seems pretty harmless.

I know in most breeds tail kinks just show up from time to time. Alls it means is the cat is inelligable for showing/breeding due to not meeting standards for the tail. I can't say for persians specifically but it does happen with most breeds. They also should be sold for less.

Any breed of cat, including domestics can get a kink at any stage of their life.

It is possible the breeder didn't know about the kinks but they're only kinks so unless you're breeding him, I wouldn't worry.

Kinks like the others said can happen in any cat.

As for size...it would depend. I know my three girls from the same litter are all varied in size..biggest to smallest. and My boy and his brother who is with my friend are also quite a bit varied in size as well.

Also, kinks can be genetic - it's a shame when that happens in a line.

I was kind of wanting to breed him, but it doesn't matter that much to me if I can't. He's beautiful and I don't mind the tail, or even if he's older. The only thing that worries me is that he is scared sh**less of people...

Did you purchase breeding rights for him?

Originally Posted by WellingtonCats

Did you purchase breeding rights for him?

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It was included in the fee.

Unless you know the kink was caused by accident when a kitten and not genetically you should NOT be breeding the cat. Please have him neutered to be on the safe side.

I had a rex kitten who got his tail bit (on the tip) by a littermate. Well for awhile the tail had a "kink" in it. I showed him knowing it was an accident - let the judge know. Only one judge withheld the ribbons on him thinking it was a real kink (genetic). Within a month you could not tell the cat ever had anything wrong with his tail and he went on to become a Grand Champion.

But I know it was an accident and if I wanted to have him as a breeder (he was neutered for other reasons) I could have used him.

What's wrong with breeding him for pets-only? My impression this is a birth defect and while it might repeat, it means nothing except that cosmetically he's not going to breed breeder/show cats... right? Thanks...

Originally Posted by notme1295

What's wrong with breeding him for pets-only? My impression this is a birth defect and while it might repeat, it means nothing except that cosmetically he's not going to breed breeder/show cats... right? Thanks...

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Pet only breeding is back yard breeding since it doesnt help the breed . Plus by breeding a "pet" only cat you are helping the over population because no one who has done there homework will want a kitty from you..

Originally Posted by notme1295

What's wrong with breeding him for pets-only? My impression this is a birth defect and while it might repeat, it means nothing except that cosmetically he's not going to breed breeder/show cats... right? Thanks...

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A kinked tail (known as a "tail fault" among those who do show) is not a "birth defect". It is a genetic trait that can be passed on to offspring. Just because the fault in your kitty is slight doesn't mean that offspring won't have a more serious fault. Serious tail faults can result in all sorts of physical problems with the spine, the back legs and the digestive/elimination systems.

Breeding a cat with a known genetic issue is not only irresponsible, it is unethical. The ~only~ reason to breed is to bring betterment to the breed, not simply to produce pet kittens for sale.

Keeping an intact male in your home presents all sorts of other issues you may not have considered. They spray to mark their territory and to attract willing females. Stud spray is simply awful to deal with - it smells far worse than a neutered male's urine and if it gets into walls or floors, they are ruined and have to be cut out and replaced. There is no "masking" the odor. If there is a female within scent distance, they howl like there is no tomorrow. If not confined, they will tear through whatever barriers you put up to get to them. The life of a stud male is often not the happiest - they can become very aggressive, even downright mean if not regularly bred and they are simply not loving, sweet, lap kitties. They are many, many times more prone to testicular cancer and urinary blockages.

My suggestion to you is to neuter your boy to ensure a long, happy, healthy life for him AND for you.

Originally Posted by notme1295

What's wrong with breeding him for pets-only? My impression this is a birth defect and while it might repeat, it means nothing except that cosmetically he's not going to breed breeder/show cats... right? Thanks...

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Fix your boy. The kink is genetic. Not a birth defect. and breeding for "pet only" is highly unethical. No responsible breeder would do it.

for that matter. the breeder you got your kitty from should have had you sign a Pet only contract for Neutering your boy. as he has the tail kink.

Originally Posted by ScamperFarms

Fix your boy. The kink is genetic. Not a birth defect. and breeding for "pet only" is highly unethical. No responsible breeder would do it.

for that matter. the breeder you got your kitty from should have had you sign a Pet only contract for Neutering your boy. as he has the tail kink.

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Well, he didn't. And I've heard of many pet-only breeders so I'm not sure what standards you go by but more power to you. I'll think about what you said, but in the end, it is up to me and many people want Persians as just pets. And a crooked tail doesn't make a bad cat.

If you really want to know "what's wrong with breeding pets" - check out a few shelters in your area and see the results of "purebred" cats sitting in there waiting to be killed because someone thought it was ok to be breeding pets-only.

At about a year old (maybe later for a persian since they mature later) they will start spraying everywhere. The cat would also likely become agressive if he didn't have enough females to meet his needs. Research what it takes to keep a male cat. Its hard work. If people want to get into breeding they don't start with a male. I'm new to breeding and there is no way I'd keep a male cat whole until I knew I could build a suitable stud facility. They just don't make good housecats. He may be loving now but once he gets girls on his mind he will no longer be a pet cat, he will become hormone driven and would probably care less about human interaction.

If you neuter him he will remain the same sweet loving persian personality through his life.

Originally Posted by notme1295

Well, he didn't. And I've heard of many pet-only breeders so I'm not sure what standards you go by but more power to you. I'll think about what you said, but in the end, it is up to me and many people want Persians as just pets. And a crooked tail doesn't make a bad cat.

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The "Pet only breeders" you are reffering to are more than likely BackYard breeders. Breeding just to breed. Breeding just to have kittens. Which is wrong. We have enough kittens in shelters, on the streets and being put to sleep. I came across my Neuter Loki (persian) because his breeder was going to kill him because she couldnt sell him. How nice huh?

Your breeder didnt sell on a contract, and didnt care. Didnt give you paperwork. Thats a Back yard breeder.

You ask what standards I go by. I got by CFA one of the major registered bodies of cats. I can not say what TICA says as I am not a registered member with them. But here ...this is in the section about Cat overpopulation.

"Those who are involved in the responsible breeding of pedigreed cats should recognize that, while the proportion of pedigreed kittens produced is small compared to kittens born at random to random bred cats as a result of indiscriminate or unplanned matings, this group should promote ethical breeding practices which will help reduce the number of unwanted cats."

Ethical. To me is the key word there. Your right lots of people want persians as just pets, and many breeders will sell any quality cat as a pet on a contract with papers. that does not mean the cat could not be a breeder, or shower. But has been sold at pet prices, to be fixed.

Now. I never said that a cat with a kinked tail is BAD. But it IS a genetic flaw. And when your breeding. You do not want to breed on genetic flaws. The idea of breeding is to better the breed.

Directly from the breed Standard. DISQUALIFY: locket or button. Kinked or abnormal tail. Incorrect number of toes. Any apparent weakness in the hind quarters.

You are right in the end it is up to you. But you came to a public place and asked. And you will get how we feel. Not only would it be unethical to breed on a genetic fault. Like others have said there is the problem of having stud cats. And what happens if you can not sell all your "pet kittens" what than? And will you sell on contract? Will you take ANY kitten back to matter how old it is if the owner can no longer care for it? Can you handle your stud spraying, females howling. Can you stand to enclouse your male...or keep him in one room with the daily clean up? What about the vet expenses. Persians are known to need C-sections. Than of course the kittens all need shots, worming, over all health checks before their new home. What if the female can not produce milk. Do you know how to bottle feed? Make sure the kittens go to the bathroom?

There is alot more to breeding than your thinking about. I think.

Fix your boy. Enjoy him. Study, go to shows, check out the standards and laws of your chosen fancing registry. Than start researching breeders for a papered quality Female. They are alot easier to start with.

Everyone in here has given you GREAT advice. I'd say from your comments back to them that you are not going to heed their advice and will keep your kinked tail male and will breed.

If you took the TIME to actually RESEARCH what persians are supposed to look like and what is quality and what is not - you'd know more of what you should do.

Take your boy to a few shows...find out what the judges think of him and his kinked tail. If your intact male can still win a championship - then maybe you have a chance...but if he doesn't - you need to get him to a vet for a neuter.

You have to understand that the goal in Persians is to get your males and females and kittens granded. GOOD and ethical breeders want to produce GOOD quality breeders and show kittens. THAT is the goal. It is poor thinking to just want to breed PET quality kittens. That really is asinine thinking IMO. Considering a breeder is going to have some pet quality kittens anyway, those are going to go to a new home being spayed or neutered. To actually BREED for a PET quality kitten - Good lord girl - what ARE you thinking?!?!?!?!?

I'm sure this post will make you very angry - but you need to THINK before you actually BREED. My advice is like the others - Neuter to make all of you feel better.

even if you dont agree with what the others said (though they are very very valid points) think about this: what are you going to do if no-one wants to buy kinky tailed kittens? what would you do with all the offspring?

I can't agree with the posters above me enough. Very proud to see your post Katie, we need more new breeders like you.

If you had a bad genetic trait you woudn't just keep having babies and thinking well it's their problem you've got to live with it. Also you did say yourself that you thought your breeder had trouble selling him because of his kinks. Just think what happens when you end up with lots of litters of kinked pet quality kittens but can't sell them because, well, they have kinks?

We're not trying to get at you - just encourage you to start off your breeding programme correctly.