Just want to let you know - there is no such breed as a "Doll faced" Persian - there is two Persian style breeds, the Persian and the Exotic. There are ones that fit the standard and those that don't - normally sold for pets.
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Breeding Siamese
- Thread starter cherriey
- Start Date
Oh but Hope, they do accept them for show - you can show a Persian with a long nose - but in most shows you will be laughed at. There's no rules saying "Your cats got a long nose or deep gutters" so you can't show it. Every now and then a Persian with a long nose pops up, and normally after one show they realise they're not the standard and don't do well.
OOOOOOOOOOH I love a good White Russian or a Black - YUM!
Sorry I can not agree with the statement that the Traditional face persians, are not standard..but thats me.Originally Posted by WellingtonCats
Just want to let you know - there is no such breed as a "Doll faced" Persian - there is two Persian style breeds, the Persian and the Exotic. There are ones that fit the standard and those that don't - normally sold for pets.
HEAD: round and massive, with great breadth of skull. Round face with round underlying bone structure. Well set on a short, thick neck. Skull structure to be smooth and round to the touch and not unduly exaggerated from where the forehead begins at the top of the break to the back of the head, as well as across the breadth between the ears.
NOSE: short, snub, and broad, with "break" centered between the eyes.
CHEEKS: full. Muzzle not overly pronounced, smoothing nicely into the cheeks.
JAWS: broad and powerful.
Thats the CFA standard..nose should be short and snub..which all of mine..are..just not to the extreme nature that is winning in the show ring. In my experience with horses (I will admit my show experience with cats is limited but growing) styles come and go and change. its all on the interpratation (sp) of the standard and whats winning will win.
But..thats just me and my humble tradtional face talking self.
I don't want to argue about this at all. I just don't want Cherriey getting any wrong information - like that pet quality Persians can't be shown.
IMO - what you call "traditional Persians" don't fit to the NOSE part of the standard, but you think so - so that is totally cool. Personal interpretation is fine.
But Katie have you seen the Persians of the early 1900's to late 1980's - they aren't what you have - because your cats are so beautiful in the fact they don't have that horrible deep gutters, long bodies, long legs and totally unbalanced bodies that they had. That's what I see as "Traditional" Persians
I am SO glad we're not breeding them anymore. They are so unhealthy.
Say for example I breed my Persian Stud and the cat in my signature - (Not sure if you've been following my thread here in Breeders Corner about my new blue boy) but they had one outstanding type boy, and the still born was a girl with a long nose - like the baby in your signature - I definitly wouldn't class this wee girl as a Traditional Persian because she's from two cats of "the modern age"
Anyway JMHO and a few ramblings too!
IMO - what you call "traditional Persians" don't fit to the NOSE part of the standard, but you think so - so that is totally cool. Personal interpretation is fine.
But Katie have you seen the Persians of the early 1900's to late 1980's - they aren't what you have - because your cats are so beautiful in the fact they don't have that horrible deep gutters, long bodies, long legs and totally unbalanced bodies that they had. That's what I see as "Traditional" Persians
I am SO glad we're not breeding them anymore. They are so unhealthy.
Say for example I breed my Persian Stud and the cat in my signature - (Not sure if you've been following my thread here in Breeders Corner about my new blue boy) but they had one outstanding type boy, and the still born was a girl with a long nose - like the baby in your signature - I definitly wouldn't class this wee girl as a Traditional Persian because she's from two cats of "the modern age"
Anyway JMHO and a few ramblings too!
Oooh and Katie I just reread your post - You said you can't agree with that statment that traditional persians aren't standard but I never said that. I said there are Persians that can be shown and Persians that can't. I never said ones with longer noses couldn't be shown.
I see. We have two diffrent ideas of what a traditonal is. Thank you for the compliment on my babies
I dont want to argue at all. I do have to think that it would also be ones thought on the idea of what "snub" means. Just like with the Arabian standard on what "dished" is. I know my babies all have noses much more snubed than my moggies
but not as snubbed as the extreme peke. I agree that body type and form should all be adhered to. And I feel mine make that very well
We just have diffrent facial loves
thats what also makes me feel my babies are breeder quality. I know they are not considered show quality that wont stop me from taking them though,
I had some very positive feedback from some judges on Ares i had the pleasure of showing him to them before his eye ulcer. they said he he was in their ring. they would have to place him. didnt say he would win but heck placeing is good
sadly he has a scar on his eye now..but ah well.
Its ok to agree to disagree on the facial features
your babies are all lovely too!
Its ok to agree to disagree on the facial features
your babies are all lovely too!
Thanks! I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this huh. I know I've brought it up a few times.
Yup. and there is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree on it at allOriginally Posted by WellingtonCats
Thanks! I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this huh. I know I've brought it up a few times.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #30
I agree that improving a breed should be your primary reason for breeding. There are two people in my community that do it solely for the income. One sold Persians so that they could go to the Bahamas on vacation every year (and incredibly they could) and the other is raising Bengals... though I'm not sure why or what she's doing with it.
Genetics (to a certain point at least) fascinate me! I've never studied them but cause and effect with all of the interplaying factors has always been a point of interest for me in all aspects. Unfortunately Dad would only ever let us have one cat; any kittens that could not be found homes (barns or otherwise) were shot. Where I live that is the most humane and economical way to do it... if the person who accomplishes it is a good shot. They feel no pain and won't be left to wander around, fend for themselves and inevitably either starve to death or get eaten by a member of the exploding mountain lion population. There are no shelters even remotely close to where we live so people have had to find different ways to do things. I know this is probably shocking and all but it is a fact I have grown up with.
Genetics (to a certain point at least) fascinate me! I've never studied them but cause and effect with all of the interplaying factors has always been a point of interest for me in all aspects. Unfortunately Dad would only ever let us have one cat; any kittens that could not be found homes (barns or otherwise) were shot. Where I live that is the most humane and economical way to do it... if the person who accomplishes it is a good shot. They feel no pain and won't be left to wander around, fend for themselves and inevitably either starve to death or get eaten by a member of the exploding mountain lion population. There are no shelters even remotely close to where we live so people have had to find different ways to do things. I know this is probably shocking and all but it is a fact I have grown up with.
I would very seriously NOT get into any breeding until you have your own home! If you don't, then you'd better have a list of people waiting for kittens.
Again, knowing more to the story, if I had Siamese, I would NOT sell you any of my cats at this point in time. After you have your own place, then you can start pursuing your dream. But right now, I'd be worried about placing a kitten with you and your family (especially one for breeding). You may get a show alter from me, but not a breeding cat!
Study pedigrees and the breed right now.
Again, knowing more to the story, if I had Siamese, I would NOT sell you any of my cats at this point in time. After you have your own place, then you can start pursuing your dream. But right now, I'd be worried about placing a kitten with you and your family (especially one for breeding). You may get a show alter from me, but not a breeding cat!
Study pedigrees and the breed right now.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #32
Yes. I was a little over-enthusiastic for the first day my idea took hold of me but now I've made a goal priority list. This is better for all of my goals; otherwise none of them would get reached properly.
Do you still live at home with your Dad?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #34
Temporarily. For around four years I was away getting my degree. The plan was to take a break from school for a year living here at my parents' before hopping back in. I don't think I'll be doing anymore hopping so right now I'm looking for what I am going to do. I'm working on becoming a web master so that I can take my job with me anywhere, travel and still have time for my pets and to write.
Aww good on you.
I'd just be so scared since you said that your Dad used to shoot cats.
I'd just be so scared since you said that your Dad used to shoot cats.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #36
It was a matter of necessity. It's not like he went out and did it for fun. =0) He didn't want more than one permanent cat in his house (he knew how they tended to multiply) so we found places for as many as we could but there were multiple people around us doing the exact same thing so homes filled up quick. Rather than let them be hunted down by mountain lions, one quick bullet to the head is kinder out here. He knows I won't be staying here forever, and as long as I don't acquire four or more he probably won't put up too much of a fuss.
I can see a big problem with you breeding cats in that area. You probably wont be able to find homes for them. And if there are no clinics that you could have had those cats spayed instead of shooting them then there wont be clinics for your pet buyers to spay/neuter the cats they get from you.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #38
I seriously doubt I'll actually be raising them here. My financial situation won't allow me to either move or raise cats and when it finally gets better the moving will come first.
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I am have a siamese CFA wedge cattery. Let me take this opportunity to welcome you. Siamese wedegheads are very difficult to come by. It took me over a year to find a breeder that would give me breeding rights. I hope you do start breeding because they are truly very few. There not very many breeders in the USA and almost NONE of them want any competition. I hope you find a good breeder to get your kitten from. Let me tell you that (Cattery Name removed by Moderator GayeF) siamese is one of the largest siamese catteries in the USA and the person that owns it is very nasty. I simply sent her a letter asking her if she had any kittens available for show and breeding and she jumped down my throat becasue I do not have any champions yet. She said that it was irresponsible to look for a stud because my females have not won any titles yet. There are only one year old they have to have some time. She is extremely nasty please stay away from her.
The best person for siamese breeding on this site is Gayef. She helped me get through my first litter.
The best person for siamese breeding on this site is Gayef. She helped me get through my first litter.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #40
I wonder why she was so mean about it? It seems a silly thing to get mean about. Irresponsible? How odd! Thank you for your advice on breeders though; it's been helpful. I believe that it is always best to set the ground work years in advance of such a massive project!
