Bait & Cover

I am looking for some advice that comes with a source to substantiate the claim. Anecdotal info is fine but not exactly what I am looking for.

Covering traps.
All agree that traps should be covered after capture & during transport/holding. There are statements on both sides (cover all traps / don't cover all traps) refering to setting traps. Does anyone have substantiated data that suggests covering is or is not effective when setting traps?

Bait.
There are a number of sources that refer to mackerel, tuna, sardines, canned cat food, etc. as the baits of choice. Does anyone have any data to show which bait is "best"?

If you have weblinks or bibliographic information, please post or PM me with it. Thanks.

I only have personal experience to speak from.

When I covered my traps before capture, the cats used them to sleep in the sun rather than going in them. But if I was trapping on a rainy day, the cover helped.

As for the "best" food...I've had good results with warmed fishy cat food and with hot burgers. I caught a possum with dry cat food, but no cats.

Originally Posted by Mark Kumpf

I am looking for some advice that comes with a source to substantiate the claim. Anecdotal info is fine but not exactly what I am looking for.

Covering traps.
All agree that traps should be covered after capture & during transport/holding. There are statements on both sides (cover all traps / don't cover all traps) refering to setting traps. Does anyone have substantiated data that suggests covering is or is not effective when setting traps?

Bait.
There are a number of sources that refer to mackerel, tuna, sardines, canned cat food, etc. as the baits of choice. Does anyone have any data to show which bait is "best"?

If you have weblinks or bibliographic information, please post or PM me with it. Thanks.

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Mark....I hope this is for a TNR effort.

Katie

Originally Posted by TNR1

Mark....I hope this is for a TNR effort.

Katie

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This is for our permitted Feral Cat Caregiver (City approved T-N-V-R) program as well as our feral cat nuisance abatement program.

Originally Posted by Mark Kumpf

This is for our permitted Feral Cat Caregiver (City approved T-N-V-R) program as well as our feral cat nuisance abatement program.

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Mark....I understand the use for the permitted Feral Cat Caregiver...but what exactly is your "feral cat nuisance abatement program"?? Please explain.

Katie

Where no caregiver is present and cats have been abandoned, we trap and remove unowned, unprovided for cats. These are then turned over to our SPCA. As part of our TNVR program, we provide $12,000 a year to assist with spaying / neutering of any animals in our city, an offer that is also available to any of the registered Feral Cat Caregivers. This assistance makes S/N available at a 100% subsidy. (ITS FREE TO THE CAREGIVER)

Originally Posted by Mark Kumpf

Where no caregiver is present and cats have been abandoned, we trap and remove unowned, unprovided for cats. These are then turned over to our SPCA. As part of our TNVR program, we provide $12,000 a year to assist with spaying / neutering of any animals in our city, an offer that is also available to any of the registered Feral Cat Caregivers. This assistance makes S/N available at a 100% subsidy. (ITS FREE TO THE CAREGIVER)

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Thanks....I just wanted to clarify.

Have you contacted Alley Cat Allies?? If you can wait until later in November, I can ask at the upcoming spay/neuter clinic.

Katie

Originally Posted by Mark Kumpf

Where no caregiver is present and cats have been abandoned, we trap and remove unowned, unprovided for cats. These are then turned over to our SPCA.

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Um, by "remove", you mean "kill". Please speak honestly and say what you mean.

Sorry, I'm not going to give you information that will help you kill healthy cats. End of story. I'm frankly insulted that you would seek this sort of information on this site.

Originally Posted by semiferal

Um, by "remove", you mean "kill". Please speak honestly and say what you mean.

Sorry, I'm not going to give you information that will help you kill healthy cats. End of story. I'm frankly insulted that you would seek this sort of information on this site.

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Semiferal...I'm not going to try to read into Mark's response. Virginia hasn't been so feral friendly but to have a pilot TNR program is BIG progress over what we've had in the past.

Katie

I have never offered incorrect or "dishonest" information to anyone that asked here. We do not operate a shelter, instead contracting with our SPCA to handle any impounded animals. Is is unfortunate that in reality, animals are euthanized; however, many are re-homed and rehabed. I am sorry you would be offended by someone asking for information. Having been with this board since early in 2004 and been priveleged to have been asked to participate as a Consulting ACO, I have always respected the opinions of others, no matter what my personal beliefs may be, but have not apologized for what is essenitally the reality of my job. TNR1 (Katie) and I have exchanged ideas on many issues - she is a wealth of knowledge. The truth is if there is anything I can do to help or improve the lives of animals in my jurisdiction, I am all for it. Some caregivers are having problems capturing elusive cats in order to get them fixed, they asked me, I asked the board. Again, I don't make excuses, I do what I can. I have worked very hard to promote positive approaches to feral cats and, as our program shows, our city puts REAL $$$ resources behind this program. TNVR does make a difference. Where it's not happening, we get cats that are not healthy and, in some cases, pose a problem for healthy colony cats.

And, as I said before, please feel free to PM or contact me via email. I am more than willing to exchange perspectives on how things work on 'my side of the fence' - and, as I have always said, my goal is to get rid of the fence so we can cooperate and share the yard.

M.

TNR1 (Katie) and I have exchanged ideas on many issues - she is a wealth of knowledge. The truth is if there is anything I can do to help or improve the lives of animals in my jurisdiction, I am all for it. Some caregivers are having problems capturing elusive cats in order to get them fixed, they asked me, I asked the board. Again, I don't make excuses, I do what I can. I have worked very hard to promote positive approaches to feral cats and, as our program shows, our city puts REAL $$$ resources behind this program. TNVR does make a difference. Where it's not happening, we get cats that are not healthy and, in some cases, pose a problem for healthy colony cats.

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Mark...I have always appreciated your honesty and have to commend you for taking on the responsibility of answering questions on this site as well as taking time out of your busy schedule to talk to me both on and offline. Again....I have no issues at all following up on your questions at the upcoming feral cat clinic, I wanted to ask about the TNR aspect so that the caretakers would feel easier in what you were trying to accomplish. The clinic is the 3rd weekend of November. I know your job isn't easy..and again, I am very happy to see a pilot TNR program.

Katie

Originally Posted by TNR1

Semiferal...I'm not going to try to read into Mark's response. Virginia hasn't been so feral friendly but to have a pilot TNR program is BIG progress over what we've had in the past.

Katie

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Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. "Trap and remove" is a hot button for me personally, though, and not just because of what it really means. It makes it sound like the cats are going to a farm or something, which is just not the truth. They're removed to the shelter, and at the shelter they're killed. So it is a very misleading phrase, and that is specifically what makes me uneasy about the whole thing.

Originally Posted by semiferal

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. "Trap and remove" is a hot button for me personally, though, and not just because of what it really means. It makes it sound like the cats are going to a farm or something, which is just not the truth. They're removed to the shelter, and at the shelter they're killed. So it is a very misleading phrase, and that is specifically what makes me uneasy about the whole thing.

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Certainly not every cat that is trapped is part of the TNR program...which is why I asked for clarification. Mark is working against a huge "kill em all" attitude in Virginia and really trying to make things better....if the fact that some of the cats will in fact be PTS bothers you....by all means, don't provide any information. But I would take up Mark's offer to PM him offline. He truly is trying to change things for the better for animals and working against some very hardlined attitudes.

Katie

I have only ever trapped one feral, and that was with canned salmon in an uncovered trap. He was in my yard, out in the country, and I believe no one had attempted to trap him previously.

Thank you for doing the dirty work and trying to change things, Mark. I hope the day comes when all your healthy ferals can have a home outside in Virginia.

At the risk of raising the issue of urban areas with mega resources and rural populations with few to none, I have to say in Mark's defense - and I do not know him - I am not even sure what his title on the Board means (What does it represent?) that sometimes, you have to negotiate. It would be great to be in downtown NYC or even a large urban area where there are rescue groups galore. Alas, in my area, there are still animal control officers who meet ppl who think drowning kittens is just a fine way to solve a problem. Some of them now "euthenize" these kittens by carbon monoxide so it is not as horrible a fate as death by drowning. But what do you tell someone who eeks out a living on a small farm and has a few barn cats and needs the cats but not the kittens and has never heard of spay and neuter programs and no, we have no low cost options here. It is $100 each or they are not done. These farmers have a tough time to get thru the winter so in their mind, death by carbon monoxide saves these kittens from a fate of dying a slow death by freezing and starving to death. Do they want to do it? No. Do they think they have a choice? No. Who is there to help them from the govt or Rescue services? The SPCA which asks a donation for every surrendered kitten and these are law abiding citizens who will refuse to leave a kitten by the side of the road and there is no way they can afford the $35 fee asked for by the SPCA - (I think that's the current fee but it is in that range). Seven kittens at that price means his family may not eat one week. What do you think his options are? What will you tell him to do? And these are families who would never in their wildest imaginaion apply for welfare. They actually do pay for vet care for their cats - along with their farm animals - because these animals work for them and are thus respected for the role they play. And the Dept of Agriculture vet will check out these animals for free but is not permitted to do spay and neuter of companion animals. (That is a policy that needs to be changed given the changing demographics and increaed urbanization). This is not to ay some vets do not look the other way and do in fact do procedures for free and often the same vet who cares for companion animals works for the govt on the side.

I once made a home visit as a young doctor (The parents had called to say theycould not possibly make it to Halifax and this child urgently needed to be seen and there was no telehealth back then) only to arrive when "grandpa" of the family was taking four beautiful tabby kittens to the back of the car. I think the spirit of my own cat Twisty (a black cat much loved who came from a feral mom turned barn cat) then at the Bridge was with me that day in my timing the visit because I was late after a road detour. I did not want to make the elder man feel like a criminal (I needed to keep communication open with the family and a fight with him would have jeopardized my relationship with them and the boy's health since there are few ppl in my profession in this region - and no child who is seriously ill needs the stress of his doctor calling his grandfather a murderer - which is what I thought but did not vocalize). As it was, I was "that city doctor" trying to tell them what to do and I was still in my 20's and looked 14. Today, I might have just told him he was breaking the law but at that time, he was not breaking any statutes on the books - sadly! I told him I knew some people looking for tabbies and I brought all of them home until - with the help of my husband, his fellow professors, people at the hospital and others I knew, we found each kitten a home after they were spayed and neutered and properly vetted. They lived for several weeks in our spare room - much to the chagrin of my then kitties who were ten year old former bottle babies themselves and my meezers; a Seal Point Dee Dee and a Blue Point named Cee Cee - all 4 being at the opposite end of the spectrum and totally spoiled, the meezers racking up the rosettes on the show circuit. And yep, for fans of "That Darn Cat" - the original Dean Jones/Hayley Mills version, these girls were named in honour of the original DC, as "unoriginal as the names were, lol)

Anyway - my point is we cannot always judge by the resources and norms in our own melieu. Others may not be as fortunate as us.