10 year old Persian - unsafe to have babies?

Hi there,

I realise this section is for mainly dealing with show cats, which I don't think my cat happens to be, but my question is related to breeding so I thought it best to ask here.

Until now I haven't really been in a position for Shadow my cat to have kittens (we were living out in the middle east) but now that she's back in Ireland, I'd really love to have a few kitties to continue her line. However, the vet said it would be very dangerous for her to have kittens at her age (10 years), that it would almost certainly involve a caesarean and that we should get her spayed a.s.a.p..

I wouldn't like to place Shadow in harms way, but I've read of cats aged 20 still having kittens.

Any advice, or links to pages with vets opinions, would be greatly appreciated.

I think your question has been asked and answered ... if your vet said it would be unsafe, then I would strongly encourage you to listen to him/her.

We won't breed any of our females past 3 years of age. As they get older it becomes harder for them to bounce back quickly from the rigors of nursing.

I would definitely recommend you listen to your vet in this instance. Maybe you can trace her lineage from her pedigree and find a suitable kitten from a breeder to continue her lines.

My question has been asked, yes, but I like getting several opinions. I also know that some people will stick ridgidly to rules they have been taught. There is always a certain degree of risk associated with pregnancy. As cats get older the amount of kittens they have reduces and hence the stress is reduced. I know that unlike humans, female cats do not have a menopause and remain fertile throughout their lives and have just read of several cats near 30 that successfully reared kittens.

As cats get older the amount of kittens they have reduces and hence the stress is reduced. I know that unlike humans, female cats do not have a menopause and remain fertile throughout their lives and have just read of several cats near 30 that successfully reared kittens.

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Honestly..it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself (against the vet's advice) that she would be ok to have litters. I think you will be hard pressed to find someone here who advocates breeding a cat at that age. If you want to continue your cat's heritage, I second Kai Bengals suggestion to find the original breeder and see if you can purchase a kitten from the same lineage.

Katie

I respect wanting to get several opinions and find nothing wrong with the fact that you have asked us here ... but, as TNR1 has already commented, I would be highly surprised to find a Breeder/Member here at TCS whose opinion would vary from those you have already received.

Most Breeders (at least the ones I know and respect) won't breed a queen past the age of 3 or 4 years old due to issues with difficult pregnancy, delivery and the overall good health of the queen.

Kai Bengals has given you excellent advice. There are many line-chasing resources on the Net available to search the bloodlines. If you have your girl's pedigree, do a search on the breeder or check out one of the Yahoo Email Groups specific to your breed. This might assist you in finding a related queen who is of an age conducive to breeding.

I am intrigued by your claim of cats who successfully delivered kittens at the age of 20+. I have never, ever heard such a thing and while I am pleased to hear that cats are in fact ~living~ that long, frankly, am I very unpleasantly surprised to hear that anyone in their right mind would put a queen of such an advanced age through the rigors of breeding, pregnancy and delivery.

Personally if your 10 yr old female has NEVER had kittens before, it would not be a good idea to start now. If she had a few litters, it would be safe.

One of my cats mother was about 9/10 yrs old when she had a litter - but she had been bred several years (about every 12-18 months). She was in excellant health and never any problems breeding/delivering. It depends on the health of the female and how often bred - IMO stopping a healthy female at an early age (if she is a good quality producer) is defeating the purpose of producing healthy, top quality pedigree cats. But some feel differently. Not all offspring of a good cat is able to be as good or produce even better, so to stop a line at 3/4 yrs old might be detrimental to your breed.

This would apply to show cats - for a pet quality there should be no question on even breeding the cat - it should have been neutered long ago.

The major concern I have with your cat being unspayed and 10 yrs old is the fact that she is very high risk of developing cancer (if she already doesn't have it). And besides, how could you stand the constant coming into heat and frustration on the cat's part?

I am not a breeder, but to me common sense says that if a cat delivers a litter of kittens every year for 5 years, then has a litter at age 10, she is most likely going to do ok. But to take a 10 y/o cat who has never had a litter, and breed her, seems cruel.

Maybe you could call a few more vets for their opinion. I'm sure more people will post here. And I totally understand the desire if you have a totally great cat to want her to have babies. But I like Katie's advice to f/u and see if you can get another cat from her family. It would be safer for your girl, and probably keep her happier.

And I recommend you get her spayed. I have a friend who lost 2 of 3 female cats to cancer because they weren't spayed. Just my opinion!

Yes please listen to your vet on this one. I find it quite cruel that she has been calling for ten years too - the risk of pyometra is so high. Get her fixed.

I would spay her. True, it is not unheard of for 10 year old queens to give birth safely to healthy kittens, the older a queen gets, the more the risks of problems increase. Litter size decreases and the risks of dystocia increase. Also the risk of the queen's milk not coming in, etc. go up. Also the risks of uterine prolapse increase too...the muscles of a 10 year old queen aren't what they used to be. If you had been breeding this girl for her whole life and she was still producing healthy litters that's one thing but it's another if she has never been bred. Even a 4 or 5 year old queen is at risk for problems if she's never been bred before. I would take your vet's advice!

To revisit this thread, since I thought about this today:

Given the fact that your cat is 10 years old and you've been her care-taker and have loved her during this time.............why would risking her well being by allowing her to become pregnant, even be an acceptable option?
I'd never knowingly do anything that would risk any of our cats well being. You must feel the same way if you've had this cat for 10 years.
I'm sure there are cats who've had kittens at 10 plus years....but just because something "can' be done, doesn't mean it should be done.
I'm sure I could jump off the roof of our home and not injure myself too severely...but should I do that? No.
Think about it.

I am not a breeder .. but I had a heart attack at a five year old small breed dog haveing pups I wouldnt think about a 10 yr old cat that is about 50 human years old..... Please listen to the breeders on here for they are all good and know what there talking about

I would not risk it. Especially since she has not had kittens before. Cats and dogs are very diffrent than say Humans, and horses as well. I know my mare is currently 13 and expecting and doing fine. but she was not a maiden mare and i know there are risks as she gets older.

Please get your girl spayed and look for lines close to hers if you wish to contiune them.

The way I look at it, 50 year old humans are having babies too but that doesn't mean it's a good idea!

I agree with your vet that it is in your cat's best interests to be spayed ASAP. A desire to continue her genetic line is not reason enough to disregard the advice of your vet and other experienced breeders and put her health or even her life in jeopardy.

Additionally, I would wonder if cats have the same increased risk of birth defects relating to chromosomal nondisjunction that humans have as the age of the mother increases. I don't know the answer but I'd be curious if anyone would happen to know.

I honestly find you selfish to risk your cat's life by breeding it. If the vet says she's not fit to do it, she's not fit.

If her dying is worth having kittens, or attempting to, by all measn do it. Those who are expirienced with breeding have told you their views. I am with Kai Bengals 110%.

And less kittens does NOT mean less stress. Age actually plays a big part in this. An older cat, can mean more stress.

I honestly find you selfish to risk your cat's life by breeding it.

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It hasn't been done yet Plebayo, so don't make hasty judgments. If I was a spiteful person that statement could tip the balance. True about age though, although she shows no signs of old age yet.

The way I look at it, 50 year old humans are having babies too but that doesn't mean it's a good idea!

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Cats are physiologically different from humans in terms of reproduction.

Please get your girl spayed and look for lines close to hers if you wish to contiune them.

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Shadow will get spayed, either in the next few weeks or after a litter. It's baby Shadows that is important to me, not the lineage.

Why would risking her well being by allowing her to become pregnant, even be an acceptable option?

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Any pregnancy is a risk, yet breeders do it all the time. I would like to have baby Shadows, and if I found a safe way for her to have kittens I would do so.

If you had been breeding this girl for her whole life and she was still producing healthy litters that's one thing but it's another if she has never been bred

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Some would argue that because she hasnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t had the stress of litters through her life, she would be in better physical condition to have them. But on the other hand, perhaps thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s why the cats in their 20s were able to still have litters.

I find it quite cruel that she has been calling for ten years too

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First, sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s a Persian – long haired cats come into heat far less frequently than short-hairs, itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s not really an issue (apart from the risk of cancer, which I only recently became aware of).
Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m sorry you think me cruel, but itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s a natural condition that cats have. It could be said that getting a young cat fixed was cruel, especially if it was done out of annoyance from the yowling. But thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s not a point I care to debate as itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s very much a matter of opinion. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not particularly of the opinion either way, our other cat was spayed when she was young, but sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s only about three. Like I said in my first post, until now we havenâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t been living in a place where Shadow could have babies until now, but for those 10 years Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve wished she could have a couple of kittens. Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s hard to let something like that go unless youâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]re really really sure it would be too risky.

Shadow is as nimble as ever, and looks very young (the vets assistant even thought so). Perhaps finding a small male cat as mate would help alleviate the risk?

Honestly. it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself (against the vet's advice) that she would be ok to have litters.

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I respect professional advice, but itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s not like I have just had a sudden whim to want kittens. Of course the vet will say the generally accepted rule of thumb. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not trying to convince myself, but the evidence of 20 year old cats giving birth gave me hope. I would desperately love to have baby Shadows , it has been a hope I have had for the last 10 years and then suddenly all hope is bashed when Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m told my cat, who is the perfect picture of health, should not have a litter because itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s too late.

Maybe I am just grasping at straws, but I was hoping there would be someone who had had a cat give birth to a litter in this situation. I honestly wish I could just ask Shadow what she wanted, sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s always been very caring of the younger cat.

I was on the understanding that the more heats that goes unbred that polyps/cysts can form in the ovaries that can cause infertility.

Drakken,

The thing is you asked for advice and opinions. So, you got advice and opinions. You won't convince any of us that we're wrong on the advice we gave.
Taking our advice is up to you. If you're hell bent on breeding your cat, you will do so, no matter what we say.

I think it is risky and irresponsible to breed female cats past the age of 3 or 4.
You won't convince me otherwise. I don't care if the Guiness Book of World records has documentation of a 30 year old cat giving birth. It doesn't prove it's safe or the right thing to do.

I would like to have baby Shadows, and if I found a safe way for her to have kittens I would do so.

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You do realize that you won't get "baby Shadows"...you will get kittens that have half their genes from Shadow and half from their father. Be aware that these kittens will have their own looks and their own personalities.

Enjoy your cat for who she is and allow her to be unique by having her spayed.

Katie

It hasn't been done yet Plebayo, so don't make hasty judgments. If I was a spiteful person that statement could tip the balance. True about age though, although she shows no signs of old age yet.

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Be spiteful. You are being selfish. The only "justified" reason you have for breeding your cat, is you want another cat just like yours. You're only going to get HALF of her, and every cat has their own personality. Even if you cloned her, the clone probably wouldn't be the same. You're breeding her, because you don't want to let her go. And because you "love her so much" you want to replicate her. It's completely selfish to risk the life of your cat, because of what YOU want.

Yeah, there are risks in ALL pregnancies. If she was 3 or 4, I'd say go for it. She's a SENIOR CAT [over 7yrs old]. If the vet said it's dangerous he obviously thinks your cat is older than you think it is.

When your cat is dying in the operating room, and the vet can't save her, what are you going to do?