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Warning- extremely tragic story - Page 2

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva!

The point is that these kinds of illnesses affect your mind, your behaviour, your reason and your rationale. We do not expect insane people to behave like sane people, and yet we expect them to rationally, calmly go and seek out help when they are just not capable of doing so.

Thats an incredible point......
post #32 of 46
No matter how much money we fund programs with, no matter how many more agencies we create, there will ALWAYS be someone who slips through the cracks. Even if mental illness was the #1 priority in this country, that would still be true. There are tons of social problems in the US: domestic abuse, drug abuse, child abuse, etc. No amount of money, education, programs will ever totally alleviate any of these problems. Though we can certainly help many people with mental illness or any other problem, we can't protect everyone in this country from themselves or in the case of those poor children, from someone else. It is impossible to prevent every tragedy. And that, as opposed to "passing these judgments", is simply my opinion.

Why are mental disorders considered as social problems and not as health problems like ms, cancer or diabetes? Could someone suffering from these illnesses slip through the cracks and it be thought of as tolerable?
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Why are mental disorders considered as social problems and not as health problems like ms, cancer or diabetes? Could someone suffering from these illnesses slip through the cracks and it be thought of as tolerable?
post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
One can only wonder why these people that hear voices, why the voices don't tell THEM to jump off bridges themselves instead of always (anyway the ones the media hypes) harming others.

Why does there seem to be so MANY of these people anymore? Is it the media, drugs, what?

If a person develops this condition from being a drug addict, I have no sympathy.

I do feel we are not helping the mentally ill as much as we should be.

Those poor innocent little babes are now with their Heavenly Father and no one can hurt them anymore.

"Suicide is unfortunately the number one cause of death for people with schizophrenia - but it is highly preventable! Upwards of 40% of people that have schizophrenia will attempt suicide at least once. Males with schizophrenia attempt suicide at a much higher rate than females; approximiately 60% of them will make at least one attempt. The result of these attempts is that between 10% and 15% of people with schizophrenia have historically committed suicide."

Quoted from the schizophrenia.com website.
post #35 of 46
I heard on the news late last night that this lady had been taken off of her medication by her doctor.. not sure if its true or not.. but thats what it said last night.
post #36 of 46
Thread Starter 
I do not agree that everyone gets fair access to proper care if they are mentall ill.

When I worked for the domestic violence shelter, I went to DV court each week. There were a few families who were there every few months. These families had children who were extremely mentally ill (schizophrenic) and would just fly off the handle and beat their siblings and parents. The judge would basically just scratch his head as to what to do. We couldn't put them in prison- they did have a valid excuse for their behavior.These families live way below the poverty line and there are NO facilities in Savannah to keep and care for the mentally ill who cannot afford it. So these poor children are released back to their frazzled and very scared parents.

The woman in the article lived in a homeless shelter- she obviously did not have the financial means to enter a treatment facility or even pay for her meds for that matter!

It is a vicious, vicious cycle. There is an ENORMOUS need for care facilities for the mentally ill who cannot afford what little care is available.
post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^=
No matter how much money we fund programs with, no matter how many more agencies we create, there will ALWAYS be someone who slips through the cracks. Even if mental illness was the #1 priority in this country, that would still be true. There are tons of social problems in the US: domestic abuse, drug abuse, child abuse, etc. No amount of money, education, programs will ever totally alleviate any of these problems. Though we can certainly help many people with mental illness or any other problem, we can't protect everyone in this country from themselves or in the case of those poor children, from someone else. It is impossible to prevent every tragedy. And that, as opposed to "passing these judgments", is simply my opinion.

Why are mental disorders considered as social problems and not as health problems like ms, cancer or diabetes? Could someone suffering from these illnesses slip through the cracks and it be thought of as tolerable?
Katie, I can see where you'd think I was including mental illness in the social problems I mentioned. And yes, a better comparison would have been to include it in a discussion of diseases such as cancer or diabetes, since I agree that mental illness is, in fact, a health issue.

However, it should in no way be assumed that I consider ill people "who slip through the cracks" *tolerable*, nor do I believe I gave that impression in my posts.
post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespacat
You obviously have a lot of learning to do about schizophrenia before judging those with the illness.
She is the one who did it NOT the witness.
She will be given a chance to be judged as to her competantcy (sp)
I think she is innocent until proven guilty as far as her mental illness goes.
But from what I am hearing now is she (no one else) stopped taking her meds when the voices stopped. You cannot tell me that she was not told that she should not stop taking her meds. We have all heard of things like this happening.
If she developed this mental illness because of a drug addiction, which does happen, then I have zero sympathy. If it's legit, then there is no one to blame but her for stopping taking the meds. But whatever the case may be the WITNESS is not to blame for gosh sake. That is really the point I was trying to convey.
Those babies are in paradise now and will never be in pain again.
post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
She is the one who did it NOT the witness.
She will be given a chance to be judged as to her competantcy (sp)
I think she is innocent until proven guilty as far as her mental illness goes.
But from what I am hearing now is she (no one else) stopped taking her meds when the voices stopped. You cannot tell me that she was not told that she should not stop taking her meds. We have all heard of things like this happening.
If she developed this mental illness because of a drug addiction, which does happen, then I have zero sympathy. If it's legit, then there is no one to blame but her for stopping taking the meds. But whatever the case may be the WITNESS is not to blame for gosh sake. That is really the point I was trying to convey.
Those babies are in paradise now and will never be in pain again.
Cindy, my sister-in-law is schizophrenic, has terrific health insurance, is closely monitored by her doctors and the family, but there are still times when she stops taking her meds. Her illness and the meds prevent her from acting rationally all the time. Even after all this time (going on 20 years), I believe that she hasn't lost hope that she'll be able to stop the meds (which have side effects) and find that she's been "cured".
Also, how many people become drug addicts in an effort to self-medicate and escape their "demons", meaning mental illness? I think it's often a question of what came first, the chicken or the egg?
post #40 of 46
That is true, I never thought of it that way. My apologies.
post #41 of 46
My parents taught me not to judge anyone until I had walked a mile in their shoes.

I have no experience with persons with this illness, but I will say with certainty that I believe there are many factors at work and without the medical/clinical/firsthand knowledge, it would hypocritical of me to make judgements or broad statements.

I have opinions - some based on facts, others based on emotion - but these are my opinions only and are as valid as anyone else's opinion.

This was truly a tragedy, but these things happen and we often don't know why or all the details so can only guess at the reasons.

It must be a terrible way to live with any of these horrible diseases - I can only imagine.
post #42 of 46
There seems to be an assumption that our drug treatments are so good that if you take them all of your symptoms will disappear. Not true. Plenty of people with epilepsy, for example, take medication but often it only decreases the number of seizures they experience; it doesn't eliminate them entirely. So, if you have schizophrenia and are on medication, that doesn't mean that as long as you take them you are a 100% rational human being with no further symptoms of the disorder/disease. Many people with mental illnesses take the meds and at some point have an episode and lose touch with reality. If there is no one to notice that something has gone wrong and take care of them until it passes, the person will stop taking the meds (for various reasons, none of which have to do with reason), and then drift even further from reality. Possibly ending in a case like this.

It isn't as simple as,"Well, it's her own fault for not taking her meds". Because, as I said, that presupposes that not taking them anymore was an act of reason. But it is quite likely that it wasn't.

Also, anyone who has ever known someone with this particular disease knows that the drugs themselves not only don't absolutely prevent any further problems, but sometimes they just make you differently mentally ill. Like my aunt, who stopped hearing voices and thinking that everyone was out to kill her while on meds, but also became virtually unable to feel/express any kind of emotion. I can see why someone would rather live in fear without the meds than exist as a kind of emotionless doll.
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva!

There are many uneducated, underpriviledged people who just do not have the resources or know-how to handle this kind of thing.

We mustn't pass judgement - not on the mother, not on the family, not on the witness, not anyone. We are basing our arguments on a few paragraphs of an article we have read, nobody knew this woman, her family or her situation.

It is a tragedy for those poor innocent children, most of all, and I think that blame and finger-pointing will serve no purpose here. I just hope that it serves to make people more aware of some desperate, unhappy, tragic, terrible lives out there, so that next time we may be able to act in time to prevent such a terrible thing happening again.


WELL SAID!!
post #44 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
Cindy, my sister-in-law is schizophrenic, has terrific health insurance, is closely monitored by her doctors and the family, but there are still times when she stops taking her meds. Her illness and the meds prevent her from acting rationally all the time. Even after all this time (going on 20 years), I believe that she hasn't lost hope that she'll be able to stop the meds (which have side effects) and find that she's been "cured".
Also, how many people become drug addicts in an effort to self-medicate and escape their "demons", meaning mental illness? I think it's often a question of what came first, the chicken or the egg?

I cannot tell you how many times I have taken myself off of my medication, because I believed I could "be fine" without it! It is hard to have to depend on pills to be a relatively rational person. I can understand the psychology of dependence, and trying to break away. A scary thought is that schizophrenia is SO MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than my illness has been. To everybody.

And I won't lie, I have done a whole bunch of drinking and a few drugs to self-medicate. It may be an act of desperation, and then addiction sets in. Again, I was lucky.
post #45 of 46
For those of you upset with the witness...

If this person had jumped in to try to save the kids, odds are good there would have been four victims instead of three. If I were that person I would not have tried to save them. Why? Because I can't swim well enough to even consider jumping in that water! Calling 911 would have been the best I could have done.

I can't believe anyone blames that witness for anything, esp. when she was apparently just a kid herself (someone said she is 16?)
post #46 of 46
I think in a situation like this people need someone to blame - I'm sure the people here who blamed the witness were just doing so out of a knee-jerk reaction to the horror of the situation. You are right in that if this witness had have tried to save those children they probably would have died themselves - you cannot jump off a bridge that high in the freezing cold and save three drowning children by yourself. It can't be done, unless you are Superman, and I think even he would've had a hard time!!

I don't actually think anyone is really blaming anyone here, just trying to understand a terrible thing.
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