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The future of a woman's right to choose in the US - Page 5

post #121 of 144
Both of my kids were unplanned, due to failed birth-control methods. Abortion was not an option, that I would have chosen. After Mark was born, I made sure that I would have no more children.

I don't believe that abortion should be used as a method of birth control or because having a baby is inconvenient. As for the cost of birth control, in AZ, county health departments run family planning clinics, with low-or no-cost contraception and Planned Parenthood also works on a sliding scale. Some of the high schools also have clinics.

I cannot reject all abortions, out of hand. I am alive, as the result of an abortion. In 1935, my grandmother developed toxemia, three months into her first pregnancy. Granny fell into a coma and the only way to save her life was to perform a therapeutic abortion (the only legal kind, in those days). Rightly so, my grandfather consented. Granny recovered and, a year later, had my mother.
post #122 of 144
Everyone has continually mentioned women using abortion as a form of birth control......Is this real??? Are there women who really do that???

I have never heard anyone say that until this thread, I am very much pro choice, but women who would use an abortion as a contraceptive...how repulsive......thats a women with no heart I guess.........
post #123 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebula11
Everyone has continually mentioned women using abortion as a form of birth control......Is this real??? Are there women who really do that???

I have never heard anyone say that until this thread, I am very much pro choice, but women who would use an abortion as a contraceptive...how repulsive......thats a women with no heart I guess.........
I know someone who used no protection whatsoever and ended up pregnant, then had an abortion. Since the pregnancy was reasonably forseeable, and the abortion wasn't a big issue to her, I'd say that counts as birth control.
post #124 of 144
Although my opinions on abortion were pretty much thought through long-ago it has been fascinating reading through this thread and reconsidering many ideas, and encountering many new ones.

It does seem that the problems with the NFP method are probably that only a mature woman with a good understanding of how to put it into practice, and a stable monogamous relationship will be able to use it effectively.

All said, my opinion has not changed: I am anti-abortion and I'm pro-choice.
post #125 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebula11
Everyone has continually mentioned women using abortion as a form of birth control......Is this real??? Are there women who really do that???

I have never heard anyone say that until this thread, I am very much pro choice, but women who would use an abortion as a contraceptive...how repulsive......thats a women with no heart I guess.........

This may sound wierd, but years ago I heard on the news that abortion is used a lot more frequently as birth control in Russia and former USSR states. I do not know why, but I definitely remember hearing it. Perhaps abortion is more of an option when you know your children will not be able to eat. Poverty is pretty bad there from what I understand, maybe worse at the time I heard of this practice.

Unfortunately, I don't know what we can about this situation halfway 'round the world! But I don't think the majority of Americans/South Americans/Europeans/ etc. think that this practice is a good idea.

Lots of cultures have problems with birth control, maybe this is one case??
post #126 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueberrybeth
This may sound wierd, but years ago I heard on the news that abortion is used a lot more frequently as birth control in Russia and former USSR states. I do not know why, but I definitely remember hearing it. Perhaps abortion is more of an option when you know your children will not be able to eat. Poverty is pretty bad there from what I understand, maybe worse at the time I heard of this practice.

Unfortunately, I don't know what we can about this situation halfway 'round the world! But I don't think the majority of Americans/South Americans/Europeans/ etc. think that this practice is a good idea.

Lots of cultures have problems with birth control, maybe this is one case??

You're probably right.....It just seemed like a wierd concept to me...thanx for the info
post #127 of 144
I don't know if it's still the case with these particular insurance companies, but I know for a fact that some of the insurance companies I have been with (yes, plural) wouldn't cover birth control, but did cover any care after impregnation including abortions. No joke. (I still just paid the extra for the preventative measures!) When I was 16 and got pregnant (miscarried, abortion was never an option in my mind), we found the same thing. I was covered under my parents' insurance for post-conception care, but birth control was not covered for dependents. (Obviously Mom footed the bill for the birth control following that period of time!)

Granted, I know this opens up a whole 'nother can of worms with regards to insurance companies, but if we want to see the number of abortions go down (which I think we ALL agree on!) perhaps the coverage offered by insurance companies should be looked at as a starting point.
post #128 of 144
Thread Starter 
As absolutely frightening that it is that multiple health insurance companies will not cover birth control, I agree with you Heidi. Wider coverage could possibly curb the amount of abortions.

This is yet another example of why it is so horrible when individuals with power are able to push their religious and/or moral beliefs onto the general population .
post #129 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugaimes
As absolutely frightening that it is that multiple health insurance companies will not cover birth control, I agree with you Heidi. Wider coverage could possibly curb the amount of abortions.

This is yet another example of why it is so horrible when individuals with power are able to push their religious and/or moral beliefs onto the general population .
In Illinois, it's against the law for insurance companies to NOT cover both birth control/EC AND abortion.
post #130 of 144
I have to beg to differ. While I agree tha Russia's abortion rate is too high - in terms of its effect on women's health - it is too simplistic to assume it is due to poverty. It very much depends on what part of Russia you visit. I was in the former Soviet Union when my ex was studying at the Sorbonne and later worked with Doctors without Borders in Bosnia and other countries bordering Russia. Russia is much different now than it was under Communism - more poverty actually - I did not see dispair on the first visit tho we were on a visit organized by te French govt and did not see as much as I did on later visits..

When I first visited Russia in the early eighties, I was thrilled to confirm what I had read - that women constituted the majority of doctors in the country. All of the then eastern bloc countries had some of the most progressive abortion laws in the world - hard fought by many of the women who worked on the front lines of medicine!

The Soviets lifted a ban on abortion in 1955 (thus becming the 1st country in the wrold to legalize abortion!) and the law has been the same since. However, your comments are timely since the govt and Russian society has been chipping away at women's rights - especially since 2003 when the policy was set to be changed.

The number of abortions in Russia have declined dramatically since the change to a capitalist economy. In 1990, the stats indicate there were almost 4 mil abortions in Russia. By 2000, that figure had decreased to 1.78 mil!! Physicians I know there believe it is due to more family planning education and access to contraceptives. Still, abortions outnumber live births 2:1 , a staggering figure by any standard or defintion!

Demographics (urban vs rural and just the sheer size of the country - it reminded me of Canada that Dec we vsited and the vastness was similar), attitudes of the goct, a progressive abortion law that proviedes asy access to abortion but not to contraceptives (For many yrs, Russia was not about to utilize a medication discovered and promoted by the West), attitudes of women and men Re sexuality and lack of knowledge about contracpetion which CAN be a result of poverty but I saw eve middle class women who regularly had abortions because they simpl;y did not have access to birth control even though they possessed the knowledge. There are just so many variables that affect this. Here is a fairly good overview of the situation vis a vis abortion in Russia:

http://www.lib.utah.edu/epubs/underg...7/kotlyar.html

That said, I find it incredulous that an insurance company will not fund cintraceptives! Here, students at the university are given them for free by the Medical Clinic if they ask for them. And my drug plan covers birth control. Does an insurance plan cover viagra?? If so, why cover that and why not cover contraceptives which are critical to good wellness for women of child bearing age!!! What do poor or uninsured women in the US do???
post #131 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberkitten
That said, I find it incredulous that an insurance company will not fund cintraceptives! Here, students at the university are given them for free by the Medical Clinic if they ask for them. And my drug plan covers birth control. Does an insurance plan cover viagra?? If so, why cover that and why not cover contraceptives which are critical to good wellness for women of child bearing age!!! What do poor or uninsured women in the US do???
I think part of the problem is that medical coverage is separate from prescription plans, or at least prescription plans are an "add on" to insurance. So if you have decent prescription coverage then BC is probably covered. But, if your choice of BC isn't a prescription medication, i.e. Depo-Provera or Norplant, it isn't covered at all. I know that's the case for my current insurance - the prescription plan does cover BC pills, but the medical plan does not cover any BC (which is why I was pretty much forced to switch from Depo to the Pill). And as we well know, prescription coverage is a premium in the US and many with insurance don't have it. So what's the options? Pay monthly at $30-$50 for BC pills, or pay a $20-30 co-pay for an abortion. Hmmm...fiscally there is no contest.

*Note: I'm not saying that this happens with any kind of frequency. I don't know anyone who has done anything like this. I'm putting forth hypotheticals to make a point about how messed up insurance coverage is with regard to women's reproductive health.
post #132 of 144
My ex-husband's BC/BS did not cover contraceptives but, it DID cover Viagra. Fortunately, I haven't needed contraceptives, in almost 30 years.

Several states have mandated that insurance companies cover contraceptives. Barring that, Planned Parenthood provides services, on a sliding scale and county health departments (in AZ at least) have family planning clinics, which provide low- or no-cost contraceptives.
post #133 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebula11
Everyone has continually mentioned women using abortion as a form of birth control......Is this real??? Are there women who really do that???
This is certainly more the exception than the rule. But it does occasionally happen. Mostly because some women just don't understand or haven't been taught or just don't care about proper birth control. I have to wonder if women who have more than one abortion are taken aside by the doctor and given information about birth control....
Probably not....


Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberKitten
What do poor or uninsured women in the US do???
There are free clinics where people can get things like condoms, diaphrams and birth control. I had several friends in college who used the free clinics. They could get their pills for free (or VERY cheap), and got a bag full of condoms and other back-up methods at each visit.
Also, Medicaid covers BC.
Another thing...
We Americans seem to be a bit more sexually repressed and puritanical than our European friends. If it has to do with sex, even if it's health-related, Americans are really funny about it. Gore, blood, violence, guns...that's all good. But god forbid we see a half-second flash of a nipple. LOL
post #134 of 144
I was happy to see that my employer does cover BC pills, although they do not cover abortion. I'm not sure which insurance company provides the coverage though! I'm assuming they don't want a bunch of pregnant servers quiting their jobs due to hazards to the baby. I haven't known a single server who has worked more than five months into their pregnancy. It's too tough.
post #135 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoe'n'MissKitty
I have to wonder if women who have more than one abortion are taken aside by the doctor and given information about birth control....
Probably not....



A friend of mine had an abortion, and the clinic gave her a months supply of birthcontrol, condoms, and info about birthcontrol....I dont know if this is uncommon......
post #136 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebula11
I am not sure.....

I would like to believe that Pro-Choicers make up a large enough portion of the population for it to be nearly impossible at worst for them to change such a critical law.....

But i have to say with the state of things...nothing would surprise me
Most of the nation is Pro Choice, it's just if you are against something you are going to be more vocal, that's why Pro Lifers sound like they are the majority.
post #137 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
WOW, have we really sunk to the point to where we comapare an innocent
angel baby to a "tumor" and a "mailgnant breast". I have no words for this.
I agree.
This is beyond words for me here.
This twisted reasoning is the most awful thing I have read on here.
post #138 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess
Most of the nation is Pro Choice, it's just if you are against something you are going to be more vocal, that's why Pro Lifers sound like they are the majority.

Wow...that makes a lot of sence
post #139 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjk5900
I agree.
This is beyond words for me here.
This twisted reasoning is the most awful thing I have read on here.
But did you read any of the other arguments?
post #140 of 144
Yes I did.
I read the majority of the thread.


I DO believe a woman should be able to choose to an extent what she can do to or with her own body.
I do not believe a rape victim should be forced to carry their rapists child.
I do not believe a womans health should be jeopardized by carrying a child.
I believe there are exceptions to the rules but
inconvenience,
birth control method,
or any other irresponsible act on the part of the woman should not give her the right to end a childs life.
And I dont buy the "it's not a child" CRAP!
post #141 of 144
I was raised Catholic.

As an adult I am pro-choice.

I got pregnant at 15 and had a baby, not an abortion. My baby was healthy and I was able to care for it with the help of my parents. I never depended on "the system" for anything. I feel I have always been lucky enough to have been given the chance to raise a child. He is now 14 and in high school.

I feel I am blessed with a great young adult. I also feel I was allowed to make this decision for myself. No one made this decision for me. I think every woman young or old should be allowed to make decisions for herself.

That's my story I am one of the lucky pregnant 15 year olds. I know that and I am thankfull for that every day. I am lucky his Dad loves him as much as I do. I am lucky my parents and neighbor took care of him while I finished high school. I am lucky I was allowed to decide what was right for me.
post #142 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4kids4cats
I was raised Catholic.

As an adult I am pro-choice.

I got pregnant at 15 and had a baby, not an abortion. My baby was healthy and I was able to care for it with the help of my parents. I never depended on "the system" for anything. I feel I have always been lucky enough to have been given the chance to raise a child. He is now 14 and in high school.

I feel I am blessed with a great young adult. I also feel I was allowed to make this decision for myself. No one made this decision for me. I think every woman young or old should be allowed to make decisions for herself.

That's my story I am one of the lucky pregnant 15 year olds. I know that and I am thankfull for that every day. I am lucky his Dad loves him as much as I do. I am lucky my parents and neighbor took care of him while I finished high school. I am lucky I was allowed to decide what was right for me.

Thats a beautiful story....thank-you so much for sharing..I am so glad everything wrked out for you...Its good to know sometimes it does.....
post #143 of 144
Alittle off topic but.....

I think the issue between abortions and unplanned pregencys go hand in hand with how students are educated in public schools.

The government only funds programs on sex education that give abstinence as the only option for birth control. it seems alittle naive for them to think that every 15 year old is going to listen when most parents do not know where there kids are on any given saturday night. whether that is the parents issue, is another subject. but being well educated on such topics is a must if unplanned prenancys are to be lowered. A good example although off topic is the AIDs crises in Africa, it is commonly believed that is you have AIDs and have sex with a virgen you will be cured. The amount of young women that are raped every year by men there are not outstanding but it happens and it could stop if they were educated.

I graduated highschool in 04' and when i was a freshmen in order to graduate you had to pass a health class. Part of the class was sex education which was not based on the goverment funded course. I would say of the 25 people in my class only 4 or 5 people did not pay attention. Now whether why i was taught the truth to sex ed compaired to a different part of michigan i am not sure. i do know that it probably comes down to how much money my school had compaired to how much say a school in detroit that depends more on outside funding.

To say abortion is wrong from a moral stand points is fine but to call other people immoral for not standing up to what someone might believe is worse.

Also when it is something that normally effects women even if you do not agree, we are all women and we all should have the right of choice.
post #144 of 144
Thread Starter 
4kids4cats....thank you for sharing your story . I am so glad things worked out for you and your son the way they did .

Amanda, I think you gave me an idea for a new IMO thread!
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