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What are your thoughts on this?

post #1 of 27
10/5/05 at 12:10pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=3928996

The link above is to a story that happened in Suffolk over here. And this really has stuck with me. And think its because I am wondering just exactly where the responsibility lies. Is it with the parents? Is it with the child? We certainly can't hold the dog morally responsible.
I understand that this breed of dog has a bad rap, and I have heard from people that own them that they are "sweet, gentle dogs" when raised to be that way...but I am not so sure that thats exactly the truth either.
Bottom line: I would never own a pit bull. They have tendencies to be aggressive regardless. BUT, I am smart enough to know that there are lots of other breeds of dogs that have the same tendency to be aggressive and the attacks don't make the news quite as frequently as a pitt bull attack.

I also think that when it comes to dogs you need to research the breed you are interested in. Take for example a co-worker here: she wanted a pomeranian. She spent MONTHS looking for a pomeranian. She went to shelter after shelter after rescue group. And finally she finds one for $300. Everything I have seen when looking at pom's is that they dont do well in a home with small children. She has a 4 year old. The dog snapped at her daughter twice, and she shipped that lovely dog to the SPCA. Well, if she had looked into it a little more diligently, she might have realized a pom isnt the kind of dog she needed for having a child.

What are some other views on this? I just feel so sad for the child and the family.
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post #2 of 27
10/5/05 at 12:25pm
This is 100% the parents' fault.
The dogs were inside (normally outside, chained) and unsupervised.
Dogs of any breed/size should not be left unsupervised when small children are involved, it's just a recipe for disaster.

Pit bull demeanors are not 100% black and white, it is nature and nurture that shapes them.
They are one of the most overbred BYB breeds there are.
There are a lot of unstable lines out there, lines that should not have been bred in the first place, but BYBs don't care about breeding for temperment.
I'm sure you know the implications of mass breeding.

They are not the dog for everyone, nor do I believe that they should be so readily available to people for that very same reason, I feel the same way about a lot of 'hard to handle' breeds, regardless of size.

The biggest problem with a lot of dog owners is the failure to completely research breeds and breed mixes before undertaking them.
This almost always sets the dogs up to fail.
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post #3 of 27
10/5/05 at 12:28pm
First of all what is a 2 1/2 year old doing roaming the house unsupervised. Secondly I do think the parents should be blamed, it was their decision to have that breed of dog. I am sure they have seen on the news where this has happened before. I do blame them. In the article it states the dog was mainly chained up, IMO people that chain dogs up should not have a dog. When a dog is locked up in a cage or chained up it pisses them off. There are so many great dogs out there, if they wanted one for their family, a pit bull is not one of them. I don't know what people are thinking...............
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post #4 of 27
10/5/05 at 12:31pm
I totally agree with you. People need to research the breed before they get a dog. The truth is, alot of people do not do this. They end up dumping the poor dog.
The little child was most likely teasing the Pom and the Pom bit. Parents fault as in the Pit attack, the parents fault totally.
The pit owners are terrible. Keeping a dog chained up, how sick is that.
Chain them up.
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post #5 of 27
10/5/05 at 12:33pm
Plus, they had puppies so they must have been breeding Pits. Nice.
Well they have paid the ultimate price now and their poor son had to pay it for them. Lock them up for negligent homicide if you ask me.
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post #6 of 27
10/5/05 at 12:51pm
To me, this is completely cut and dry. Parents fault...period. Toddlers are completely unpredictable in their actions towards dogs. To leave the kid unsupervised with any dog is asking for trouble, not to mention stupid and completely negligent.
These parents purchased or acquired these dogs when that kid was about 1 year old. To give them the benefit of the doubt, they probably did no research on the breed. If they researched the breed and bought anyway.......well I won't go there.
We have a Jack Russell (Inherited when my father-in-law passed away...was us or the shelter!), and he hates cats, birds, snakes...you name it, he wants to chase it. He loves most people, but we know this type of dog's temperment, so he is on a leash restrained by me or my wife whenever there are strangers or kids around. He is of course never allowed around any of our cats. He is an excellent watchdog and a beloved pet, but we are infinitely aware of what he's capable of if left to his own devices.
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post #7 of 27
10/5/05 at 12:58pm
I agree 100% parents fault. As a responsible pet owner and parent it is your responsibility to make sure that the type of animal you get is appropriate to have around children. It's just very sad that they always make the dog pay in these circumstances.
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post #8 of 27
10/5/05 at 1:47pm
parents fault on this one. I am not a huge fan of pits but thats reguardless. They kept their dogs on a chain bad news anyways. then left them in the house with a child unattended. double bad news.
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post #9 of 27
10/5/05 at 1:49pm
Thread Starter 
I think you guys are all right. The responsibility lies on the parents. Number one, chaining a dog up is wrong, but many people do it. I am currently fostering a german shepard. He came from Alabama where he was left on a chain to die. However, he is not happy in a house type environment. So, the only option that I had was to construct a tie out type of system where he can roam the yard and run, and I take him for walks on the leash every afternoon and work with him. Sometimes he sleeps on our screened in porch, if the weathers bad, and other times, hes happy as can be out on the tie out. BUT...this dog has human interaction with us. I think thats the difference.

I also have a husky, and now I am pregnant. I have to work with Bjourne to get him to understand that this is a baby. I also researched the breed and was told that cats to a siberian husky are considered the other white meat. Well, I got Bjourne, and I slowly acclimated him to my cat, and now they are fine (in fact, they scare him. ) but, I was nervous about that. You never know what their reaction will be. And continued research into the breed and direction from the vet say that I should get him used to be ignored while I am caring for the baby. That way, theres not as much jealousy. However, I would never leave him or my child unattended. You just never know. And some kids are unintentionally rough with dogs.

Ultimately, the parents should be charged with neglect. Okay, it was a cold night, you wanted to bring your dog in, fine. Why not invest in a kennel for that exact type of situation? They make huge ones that more than accomodate a large dog. I have one for Bjourne who is 70 pounds and theres plenty of room for him to stand up, turn around and move around. He has his blankets, food and water and toys in there, and he will go in there willingly. We dont even have to shut the door. But he has to go in there when theres no one home with him...he gets bored, and my coffee table becomes his next busy bones. It sounds to me as if the dog was never socialized properly. And why would you leave a dog unsupervised? It slays me to see that a 2½ year old lost his life because his parents were irresponsible. Kids get out of bed and wonder around it happens. That dog should have been isolated from the rest of the house until it was moved back outside.
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post #10 of 27
10/5/05 at 2:24pm
Bottom line - if you chain any breed of dog up, only to let them off the chain to breed, and never socialize them, you're looking for trouble. Add an unsupervised toddler to the mix, and this is what happens.

I wonder if it had been a Standard Poodle (just an example) instead of a Pit if it would have made the news?
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post #11 of 27
10/5/05 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
Bottom line - if you chain any breed of dog up, only to let them off the chain to breed, and never socialize them, you're looking for trouble. Add an unsupervised toddler to the mix, and this is what happens.

I wonder if it had been a Standard Poodle (just an example) instead of a Pit if it would have made the news?
I actually have a story about this....from when i was like 11...Next to my aunts house in NH....(she lives in a very residential area...)...anyways her neighbor had this georgeous German Shepard.......but the neighboors never brought the dog in the house.....never too the dog for a walk......never went out to see the dog except to feed him....the children didnt even play with it.....(and you knew they were the reason this family even had a dog..... Alas all this dog did was sit on a chain in the back yard....all the gosh darn time........

So one day on a week I was staying at my aunts house, a police officer came to the door....or more specifically animal control.....He told my aunt not to let any kids out of the house for a while.........

The poor German Shepard had escaped, and he was taking his aggresion of years of enslavement out on anyone it could find......He attacked 2 kids and a women........

finally animal control shot the dog dead...I remember crying, knowing even at that age that the blame did not fall on the shoulders of the dog......of course not many people agreed with me, as the owners of the poor pup never were brought up on charges.........

Sad......
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post #12 of 27
10/5/05 at 3:01pm
On another point....The two sweetest, kindest, playfulist dogs i have ever met were both Pitts
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post #13 of 27
10/5/05 at 6:05pm
Good for you on the study with huskies. We have sucessfully raised Isis to be a cat loving pooch
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post #14 of 27
10/5/05 at 7:01pm
I think it's a horrible accident - no matter WHOs fault it is. I love rottweilers but have chosen to keep my children safe FIRST...so we do not own any rotts...probably never will...simply b/c of the "chance"...but this is so sad. They have lost their child and that IMO is punishment enough.
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post #15 of 27
10/5/05 at 7:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeLoveEllie
First of all what is a 2 1/2 year old doing roaming the house unsupervised. ..
You obviously do not have children.
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post #16 of 27
10/5/05 at 8:37pm
I believe any dog can be dangerous if they are not raised properly. Yes, there are certain dogs that have a "bad rap" but I don't necessarily agree with that.

I work at an animal hospital in what isn't the greatest of neighborhoods. Yes, I have seen dogs such as rottweilers, pit bulls, german shepherds, etc that fit the stereotype. But I have also seen dogs of these breeds that are the sweetest, most friendly dogs.

I have also seen cases like diane described. An owner wanted a pom but also had a 3 year old daughter. They allowed the dog to do whatever it wanted and it ended up biting the girl on the face. When they brought it in it was already very aggressive. And only about 10 weeks old!! During the appt the daughter continually teased the dog, pulled it's hair, etc. During which the father didn't say a thing to her. The dr. warned him that if he didn't start really disciplining her that he would end up with a very nasty dog who could do severe damage to his daughter.

Obviously these dogs weren't properly taken care of (as far as socializing) and the child wasn't taught properly. The article said the dogs were alone with the pups.. maybe the child went for one of them and one of the dogs was trying to protect them?

It's a very sad situation. I feel bad for the parents although I do believe it was their fault. It doesn't say what will happen to the dogs. Most likely they will be put to sleep. All because of their owners.
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post #17 of 27
10/5/05 at 8:58pm
My dog weighs 90 pounds.
Mostly he's a big chicken, he is protective of his family, which is natural, and something I do not discourage as long as there are no outward signs of unwarranted aggression.
The only time he has ever shown any aggression it was a situation in which it was appropriate to do so (a drunk man approached me wielding a stick).
He loves kids, doesn't jump up on them, and has learned that if he's patient, they usually leave a trail of food.
I trust his temperment implicitly.
That said, I would never leave him unsupervised with children or strangers, ever.
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post #18 of 27
10/5/05 at 9:38pm
With yet another twist, my brother had a pit named Bear who was just the sweetest thing for about 5 years, then one morning killed the family's cat, jumped the fence,ran off and killed a calf, bit a kindergartener on the arm, ran off & attacked a horse, then ran home as if nothing was wrong. But the horse owner followed the dog home and the deputies showed up. This was a dog that "kids could do anything to" - it's the "rampage" bit that upsets me. I know it's not just pitbulls - when I was young, our neighbor's Dobie ran up to the busstop & bit my little brother & then me. It seems to be the "sight-hunters" that "rampage".
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post #19 of 27
10/5/05 at 9:45pm
Crazy dog.
Well, my Bear isn't a pit, he's a lab mix.
Vet's best guess to the 'mix' part is boxer or mastiff.
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post #20 of 27
10/5/05 at 11:44pm
The parents are too blame...

I grew up with two german shepards ... one was in the house before I was born ... He was a normal sized one and ignored me... the other we got when I was four he grew to 125lbs and was safe unless you were a male dog bigger than him or a human man ( my fathers fault) ... I was never unsupervised with them till I was 7 or 8 ... I do not leave my yorkie alone with anything but her sister and aunt ( my cats) for she is a small dog with a small dog temperment ...

Why cant people be responsible for what they bring into there lives be it human or furry ??
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post #21 of 27
10/6/05 at 5:52am
Parents. That story turns my stomach.
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post #22 of 27
10/6/05 at 6:22am
What a tragedy. Definitely the parent's fault, though. Regardless of the breed, it all goes back to how the dog is trained and treated. We had a situation the other night in Cincy in which a pit bull attacked 5 people. It was all over the news how vicious the dog is. However, this morning several of the neighbors were interviewed who said the dog had been mistreated and trained to be violent. Apparently his owner ordered him to attack the people.
They showed the dog, now in the custody of the SPCA, obviously terrified and just trembling in his cage. He'll be PTS when the investigation is completed. Hopefully, the owner will be charged. He's the one responsible, not the poor dog.
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post #23 of 27
10/6/05 at 6:43am
Thread Starter 
Everyone has brought up some valid points...valanhb, I think you are right on...if it had been a pom or a poodle, it wouldnt have had such coverage.

Apparently, after reading several accounts, they THINK what happened was, the little boy went downstairs to use the bathroom and the dog was laying at the bottom of the stairs. He tripped over the dog, and the dog attacked. This morning they said the cause of death was blood loss. And I think thats sad...but I am sure the dog will be pts because they are saying "once a dog has tasted blood..." I dont know.

I think any dog has the tendency to be violent if the circumstances are right....my husky gets protective of me, but he has never full out attacked anyone or any other animal. If he felt I was threatened he might. The german shepard I am fostering wasnt socialized, and I am working with him on that, but I still wouldnt trust him alone in a house. Hes been abused and neglected. Nothing I do now will erase that from that dogs memory. He doesnt like certain things, you have to pet his head the right way, or he jerks away. Its not his fault, its what he learned.

I think what it all comes down to is that dogs are in a way, just like a toddler. You can not leave them unsupervised. And if you do, then thats taking a risk. Personally, the parents are responsible, not because the child was downstairs by himself, but because they brought a dog that they really didnt know into thier house and left the dog to her own devices. Now, they have to live with the fact that their childs death could have been prevented. Thats what bothers me. It could have been prevented.
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post #24 of 27
10/6/05 at 6:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlyn
My dog weighs 90 pounds.
Mostly he's a big chicken, he is protective of his family, which is natural, and something I do not discourage as long as there are no outward signs of unwarranted aggression.
The only time he has ever shown any aggression it was a situation in which it was appropriate to do so (a drunk man approached me wielding a stick).
He loves kids, doesn't jump up on them, and has learned that if he's patient, they usually leave a trail of food.
I trust his temperment implicitly.
That said, I would never leave him unsupervised with children or strangers, ever.

Your dog has the same look mine does! That look is Bjourne wanting something off of the dinner plate...that look says "Oh, please feed me...I am thin in the skin...." Definitely a cute pup!
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post #25 of 27
10/6/05 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulBear629
The article said the dogs were alone with the pups.. maybe the child went for one of them and one of the dogs was trying to protect them?
The fact that there were puppies in the room the boy was found in probably played a far bigger role than the dogs' breed. What mother wouldn't try to protect her offspring? My grandfather had (bred) both horses and dogs when we were kids. We were never allowed to go near the babies unless he or his nephew was present. Years ago, my husband and I witnessed a deer attacking a little girl who'd gotten too close to her fawn.
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post #26 of 27
10/6/05 at 11:12am
No young child, under 12 years old in my opinion should be left alone with ANY sort of animal, let alone a dog. and at 2 years old, if raised with animals the kid should ahve known better.. my siblings and I were born into a house of dog and cats, and not once did we ever pull ears or tails or fur.. but my cousins kids are aged 2-7 and raised with animals, and they are evil towards them! I won't even let them in my house unless all the cats are locked up and the dog is with me.. he is a very friendly dog thta loves kids, but he is still an animal, and if one of them hurt him I can guarentee he would defend himself.

I love that breed, and have been wanting to own an American Pitbull Terrier since I was little. But now heere there is a province-wide ban which makes me unable to get one in the future.

WARNING, this video contains graphic images.
http://www.pitbullproblem.tk
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post #27 of 27
10/6/05 at 11:44am
Thread Starter 
Heres an update on the story:

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=3928996



Theres about 78 things wrong with that whole story! And I am not even going to begin addressing them until I calm down. And as for PETA....they need to keep their noses out of it...after what I have heard lately...they are one to talk about abuse.
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