TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › What is WRONG with the Catholic Church?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What is WRONG with the Catholic Church?

post #1 of 12
9/20/05 at 1:30pm
Thread Starter 
Do they really believe this???

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=39700

It's a reaffirmation of barring anyone with homosexual tendencies from entering a seminary and becoming priests. This is in response to all of the pedophile scandals in recent years.

OK, fine, I fully realize the Church's view of homosexuality. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or even a high school diploma, to realize that homosexual does NOT equal sexual predator/child rapist. And hey - how about a NEW idea of getting pedophiles OUT of the church on their first offense instead of shuffling them to another place???

However, apparently if they do it when they are drunk, they aren't gay.

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=39688
Reply
post #2 of 12
9/20/05 at 1:47pm
Amen to that!! I haven't known any guys who were abused by priests, but I do know girls who were abused by Protestant youth leaders. Somehow that doesn't seem to get the same coverage. In fact, my friend's daughter was really wild, and at 16 was seduced by the 38yo youth pastor at her group home when he converted her. When my friend found out, she tried telling the Probation Dept. and they didn't act on it; my friend couldn't afford an attorney, and the one who did counsel her thought that the daughter, with her bad history would not be a very convincing victim. Results - the girl married the guy and has endured 20 years of abuse, physical & mental, at the hands of this manipulating, very very jealous man (so much for being an old man's darling). While sex drimes are bad, I think that "gay" crimes are treated with much, much more revulsion, but the cases of older men preying on young girls is just a case of "May-Dec romance". *sigh* guess we haven't come all that far yet.....
Reply
post #3 of 12
9/20/05 at 1:50pm
I think that deverting the blame to others rather than attempting to fix things is a SMASHING idea! I mean, we see it happen again and again, so it must work, right?
Reply
post #4 of 12
9/20/05 at 2:32pm
As an amatuer Catholic apologist, I'm going to try and give some reasons for this decision, but not an opinion. In other words, I'm not going to say that what the Pope has decided is right or wrong, simply give some support so that it is not completely unfounded.

If the statistics I have heard are right, about 80% of the priests who committed the molestations were homosexual, and around the same percentage of the victims were male. Not all of these molestations occured with children - many (maybe even most) of them were adolescent boys, which takes at least somewhat out of the realm of child molestation and into the area of what I suppose we could term sexual harrassment. In the same way that we should be concerned for an alcoholic (recovering or not) working with alcohol, there is understandably apparently some need for concern for homosexual men, even normally virtuous ones, working in a primarily male environment like a priest might encounter.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that the priesthood is not a right - its a privilege. Not only must there be discernment on the man's part, the Church much also discern his calling as well. Perhaps someday we will know how to tell molesters, homosexual or not, from non-molesters. Right now, the data says we apparently cannot. This is the way that the Pope has chosen to deal with the problem. Is it the right way? I don't know. I know that the solution is not a perfect one, but I also know that I would not want to subject one more child to abuse at the hands of a man who is supposed to be his spiritual caretaker on Earth, and if this one way to prevent that until a better situation can be created, then I will take that.
Reply
post #5 of 12
9/20/05 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
OK, fine, I fully realize the Church's view of homosexuality. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or even a high school diploma, to realize that homosexual does NOT equal sexual predator/child rapist. [/url]
You'd be surprised at what inferences people draw I think the catholic church here is simply deflecting blame against its own archaic policies..Its a promotional tool for the church if you will Look,kids,A WHOLE NEW Catholicism! Look ma,No Sexual Predators!!
Reply
post #6 of 12
9/20/05 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtigress
If the statistics I have heard are right, about 80% of the priests who committed the molestations were homosexual, and around the same percentage of the victims were male. Not all of these molestations occured with children - many (maybe even most) of them were adolescent boys, which takes at least somewhat out of the realm of child molestation and into the area of what I suppose we could term sexual harrassment.
The most important thing to keep in mind is that the priesthood is not a right - its a privilege. Not only must there be discernment on the man's part, the Church much also discern his calling as well. Perhaps someday we will know how to tell molesters, homosexual or not, from non-molesters. Right now, the data says we apparently cannot..
Whose statistics are these?A homosexual does not love or covet a boy or a manchild..they like adult men. A pedophile by its very definition 'loves (boy) children'...If you choose to sleep, fondle or pull your johnson out in front of a 13 year old boy , you are, by the correct definition, a pedophile. Speaking from a background of someone who has worked with sex offenders on a daily basis ( of all types, backgrounds and sizes), I CAN tell you that the data IS there. There are heterosexuals, homosexuals, and pedophiles. We do not often verge away from our predilections and these are DISTINCT predilections. It just so Happens that pedophilia, while a distinct Sexual preference is a social taboo and utterly illegal.. Homosexuality was once as well.
Reply
post #7 of 12
9/20/05 at 2:49pm
Honestly, I wish I knew exactly where the statistics came from - I got them from a Catholic apologist thread about this topic. Hence why I preceeded them with "if they are right". If someone can confirm stats somewhere, I'd be absolutely thrilled, I hate giving out iffy data, but its all I had since I'm at work, and my conscience wouldn't let me go without at least posting something .
Reply
post #8 of 12
9/20/05 at 3:12pm
I'm roman catholic and I don't understand it either. Most catholics disagree with most cathloic doctrine anyway (at least in this country). I don't understand how 2 people falling in love regardless of sexual orientation has anything to do with anyone else!! I hate that people are so closed minded on things like this. I am ashamed to call myself a cathloic because of it.
Reply
post #9 of 12
9/20/05 at 3:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtigress
As an amatuer Catholic apologist, I'm going to try and give some reasons for this decision, but not an opinion. In other words, I'm not going to say that what the Pope has decided is right or wrong, simply give some support so that it is not completely unfounded.

If the statistics I have heard are right, about 80% of the priests who committed the molestations were homosexual, and around the same percentage of the victims were male. Not all of these molestations occured with children - many (maybe even most) of them were adolescent boys, which takes at least somewhat out of the realm of child molestation and into the area of what I suppose we could term sexual harrassment. In the same way that we should be concerned for an alcoholic (recovering or not) working with alcohol, there is understandably apparently some need for concern for homosexual men, even normally virtuous ones, working in a primarily male environment like a priest might encounter.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that the priesthood is not a right - its a privilege. Not only must there be discernment on the man's part, the Church much also discern his calling as well. Perhaps someday we will know how to tell molesters, homosexual or not, from non-molesters. Right now, the data says we apparently cannot. This is the way that the Pope has chosen to deal with the problem. Is it the right way? I don't know. I know that the solution is not a perfect one, but I also know that I would not want to subject one more child to abuse at the hands of a man who is supposed to be his spiritual caretaker on Earth, and if this one way to prevent that until a better situation can be created, then I will take that.
That makes a little more sense.

Although I disagree that the molestations are on par with sexual harassment. If it were just harassment, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with them shuffling the offenders and offering them counceling. But it's a much more serious issue and crime than that. Many of them include rape, and regardless of the age of the victim - rape is rape. Abusing a position of authority is part of the rape, so the victims may not say "no" outright, especially if they see the Priest as a representative of God. But it's still rape. And that isn't a homosexual issue. That's a sexual predator issue.

I would understand the reaffirmation of barring homosexuals from the Priesthood based on doctrine and theology alone, but I just can't understand it if the reason is to combat the sexual predators in the Priesthood when they aren't doing anything substantial about the ones they know about currently.
Reply
post #10 of 12
9/20/05 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
But it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or even a high school diploma, to realize that homosexual does NOT equal sexual predator/child rapist.

Sometimes, it seems like it does...
Reply
post #11 of 12
9/20/05 at 3:38pm
They refer to gay tendencies as a "personality disorder" in the text the Pope signed!!

They are saying that priests who are celibate should leave the priesthood if they have ever been gay or had gay thoughts. It seems to me that the focus should be on celibacy, not sexual orientation. They should be working to ensure that all of their priests are practicing celibacy. If all priests were celibate, there would be a 0% molestation rate.
Reply
post #12 of 12
9/20/05 at 6:19pm
I agree with most of what's been said...excluding homosexuals from the priesthood isn't going to fix a thing. So I feel I really have nothing to add to that part of the conversation.

I thought this was an intersting take on it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by consumercity
They are saying that priests who are celibate should leave the priesthood if they have ever been gay or had gay thoughts. It seems to me that the focus should be on celibacy, not sexual orientation. They should be working to ensure that all of their priests are practicing celibacy. If all priests were celibate, there would be a 0% molestation rate.
Exactly. It could also be that these molesters don't see their acts as a violation of their celibacy vow. Since they aren't having vaginal sex with a woman, in their minds it's not really sex. Sick rationalization to make.

The problem with celibacy is that humans are, like all other animals, sexual beings. The urge to reproduce is a natural one, so much so that the necessary act feels incredibly good. It's unnatural to ask someone to totally suppress their sexual needs. (Yes, I said needs. It is a need...the body will satisfy this need by itself in the form of wet dreams or the female equivilant if it is not "active".) A small few are able to totally suppress this need, but most aren't and end up "hitting" on what ever is available to them. In the case of Catholic priests, it's sometimes alter boys.
Add to this the very sexual yet oddly repressed nature of Western society and you have a recipe for disaster.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › What is WRONG with the Catholic Church?