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"Vigilante Justice" against child rapists - what's your opinion? - Page 2

post #31 of 53
9/21/05 at 3:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi
I really don't think that is what was meant. The first post indicated, and I would tend to agree, that the man in question *probably* stopped when she walked in on it. At that point all she needed to do was throw the a## out and call the police. Taking a gun and killing him was not necessary; it was revenge. And there is a difference between revenge and self-defense. If she tried to stop him and he resisted and continued harming the boy, then I can see her using deadly force. But somehow I don't think that's what happened. To use an example, if some guy takes a swing at me and I take him down with a foot to the groin, that's self defense. If I then proceed to beat the crap out of him and then kill him while he's incapacitated on the ground, that's NOT self-defense. You use enough force to protect yourself or others, and that's it.
So, when you are defending yourself or your relatives, you are going to think just how much force you need to use? God forbid you use too much? I don't think it's quite works that way.
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post #32 of 53
9/21/05 at 6:23am
I don't believe there is ever ANY excuse for vigilante type justice. The general public become incensed over an event (whether perceived or real) and act like madmen. Often they hurt innocent people with their zealous passion and lack of thinking.

There are civilized ways to deal with things and we don't need to resort to being thugs.

Our laws may leave something to be desired at times, but I honestly believe they try to be fair.

Having said that, I do believe though, that child molesters should be incarcerated in with the general population in our prisons. Then I believe justice would probably truly be served.
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post #33 of 53
9/21/05 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizwithcat
So, when you are defending yourself or your relatives, you are going to think just how much force you need to use? God forbid you use too much? I don't think it's quite works that way.
I read scorn in your last two posts that I don't think I deserve, or the previous poster deserves. No, I'm sure a judge isn't going to weigh it out so exactly, and I'm sure I wouldn't either. You don't always know a) *exactly* how much force will be enough to drop your attacker and b) *exactly* how much force you are capable of. So of course, you get some obvious leeway when defending yourself. But we are discussing this case, and it seems to me that it was unlikely that shooting the man was necessary in order to remove the danger to her son. Again, he *probably* stopped when she walked in. Calling the police and telling him to get out was all she needed to do. Based on the info we have, she seems to have gotten the gun and killed him due to rage and a desire for revenge, not out of a need to protect her son. That's all I'm saying. Regardless of how much the SOB deserved punishment, our society should not condone revenge killing.
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post #34 of 53
9/21/05 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizwithcat
So, when you are defending yourself or your relatives, you are going to think just how much force you need to use? God forbid you use too much? I don't think it's quite works that way.
That pretty much is how the law works. And it's like that for a reason. Otherwise, you could kill just about anyone and claim self defense gone too far. Why go through a painful, nasty and costly divorce, possibly lose your children and home, when you can just say that he was making moves on your child and kill him?

Self-defense isn't a free pass to kill anyone. Nor should it be. I agree with Obi that it sounds like a revenge killing. Justifiable revenge, but if she left the room and got a gun with the intention of killing him that is First Degree or Premeditated Murder. That she only served 15 years shows that there was leniency by the court in not sentencing her to Life, IMO.
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post #35 of 53
9/21/05 at 7:33am
Does anyone remember the movie, "The Burning Bed" with Farah Fawcett?
That was a true story and didn't she get acquitted for killing her husband that beat her repeatedly for years? Well if she got off, so should this woman.
For Gods sake, in the movie she shot her husband in his sleep if I remember correctly. And rightly so IMO, he was a monster just like the monster that has incest with his son, NO MERCY
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post #36 of 53
9/21/05 at 1:58pm
I know that I will probably be unpopular for this, but the only "right" a molester should have is a bullet in the brain.

My ex-husband molested our two daughters, eventually resulting in the suicide of my oldest daughter.

As I said, a bullet in the brain and it makes no difference who or what puts it there.
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post #37 of 53
9/21/05 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittenKiya
I know that I will probably be unpopular for this, but the only "right" a molester should have is a bullet in the brain.

My ex-husband molested our two daughters, eventually resulting in the suicide of my oldest daughter.

As I said, a bullet in the brain and it makes no difference who or what puts it there.
O, honey - that is so horrible.
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post #38 of 53
9/22/05 at 6:06am
I don't know what the laws are, in other states but, in AZ you have right to use deadly force, if you have the reasonable fear that you or any person near you is in imminent danger of death or bodily harm. Ergo, if I were to catch someone in the act of raping a child and shot him, no prosecutor would file charges.

A couple of years ago, a Tucson woman was awakened by a rapist, in her bed. She was able to reach under the mattress for her pistol and shot him - no charges were laid against her.
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post #39 of 53
9/22/05 at 7:29am
I would like to say that I don't believe in vigilante justice BUT---the fact is, this monster who raped this little boy would probably get out of jail and rape another child or 2 or 3 or 4..... WHERE is the justice in that??? Our legal system has yet to come up with a fair way to deal with monsters that hurt children. It is WAY too lenient on them. Who cares about a child molester's rights??? Not me.
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post #40 of 53
9/22/05 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittenKiya
I know that I will probably be unpopular for this, but the only "right" a molester should have is a bullet in the brain.

My ex-husband molested our two daughters, eventually resulting in the suicide of my oldest daughter.

As I said, a bullet in the brain and it makes no difference who or what puts it there.
I am so very, very sorry, there are no words.
I heartily agree with you.
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post #41 of 53
9/22/05 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by katl8e
I don't know what the laws are, in other states but, in AZ you have right to use deadly force, if you have the reasonable fear that you or any person near you is in imminent danger of death or bodily harm. Ergo, if I were to catch someone in the act of raping a child and shot him, no prosecutor would file charges.

A couple of years ago, a Tucson woman was awakened by a rapist, in her bed. She was able to reach under the mattress for her pistol and shot him - no charges were laid against her.
Wild west justice, you gotta love it.
I am so sick of these monsters getting out of jail and doing it over and over and over. When it comes to pedophiles I do believe in vigilante justice, you better believe it. You could even throw some torture in there and I wouldn't care.
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post #42 of 53
9/22/05 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellyyfaber
I would like to say that I don't believe in vigilante justice BUT---the fact is, this monster who raped this little boy would probably get out of jail and rape another child or 2 or 3 or 4..... WHERE is the justice in that??? Our legal system has yet to come up with a fair way to deal with monsters that hurt children. It is WAY too lenient on them. Who cares about a child molester's rights??? Not me.
That's why I said put them in with the general population in prison - they won't live long enough to be released.
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post #43 of 53
9/23/05 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by katl8e
I don't know what the laws are, in other states but, in AZ you have right to use deadly force, if you have the reasonable fear that you or any person near you is in imminent danger of death or bodily harm. Ergo, if I were to catch someone in the act of raping a child and shot him, no prosecutor would file charges.

A couple of years ago, a Tucson woman was awakened by a rapist, in her bed. She was able to reach under the mattress for her pistol and shot him - no charges were laid against her.
Florida recently passed such a law, too. If something like that happened here, I would empty my gun into anybody who broke into my home to do me bodily harm. To me, rape is murder or someone's soul, their spirit. It's going to be them or me.
As far as vigilante justice goes, I'm 50/50 on it. Did anyone hear about the child rapist who got beat to death in the SuperDome? I could never blame those people, I'm glad they did it. If I were there, I would have cheered them on..If someone raped me & somehow escaped without being shot, I'd hunt them down & kill them. At that point, jail wouldn't matter to me, I wouldn't be the same person, anyway.
But I do agree with Ryan that laws need to be changed. I also agree with other members suggesting that we find other forms of punishment for white-collar crimes, freeing up prison space for the hard-cores, the monsters.
I also want to add that while they're at it, no more protective custody. Throw them out into the general population. Let them find out what vigilante justice is all about..just like Jeffrey Dahmer did.
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post #44 of 53
9/23/05 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me-n-my guys
But I do agree with Ryan that laws need to be changed. I also agree with other members suggesting that we find other forms of punishment for white-collar crimes, freeing up prison space for the hard-cores, the monsters.
I also want to add that while they're at it, no more protective custody. Throw them out into the general population. Let them find out what vigilante justice is all about..just like Jeffrey Dahmer did.
Our criminal justice system is a real mess, isn't it? Why should child rapists get special treatment? I agree they shouldn't get protective custody! I think prisons should be divided into those for violent offenders and those for non violent offenders. The child rapists should be housed with the murderers and other violent criminals. Child rapists are the worst type of criminal as attested by the fact that even murderers think they are horrible.
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post #45 of 53
9/23/05 at 9:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
Have a feeling i would do exactly what this poor woman did, shoot him dead.
That kids life is ruined irregardless of her killing the dad.
His life is over, the father got what he deserved, I wish they all would get the same. No mercy, they give none, they get none. Period.

I have no mercy for these people without conscience that could do something this disturbed to an innocent child.
If put in the position I don't think I could stop myself short of my own justice right then and there. Maybe not in front of the child, get them to safety and then .....
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post #46 of 53
9/23/05 at 10:14pm
I disagree with vigilantes in any case. Two worngs never make a right to paraphrase an old saying. Many of these guys get what is due them in prison and I do not loose sleep over it though but it solves nothing for someone else to end up in jail to take the life of another. The system is hardly perfect but it is never right to take the law in our own hands. I once had a wonderful friend - and former secretary murdered by her daughter's bf. I'd loved to have murdered him myself - but what good would that do. It does not bring her back. Thank goodness our justice system put him away where he deserves to be, in prison. An eye for an eye may well have worked in the dark ages but we live in far more complicated times now, with many value systems to consider. I do know the jusice system involves the "victim" and families more but I wish the whole restorative justive system would become even more proactive and progressive. It is a work in proigress I guess. I have no use for (and have to admit I even hate some of them) these people but I see no reason to kill them or engage in vigilante justice. If we allowed ourselves to engage in that, we are giving in to our baser instincts.
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post #47 of 53
9/24/05 at 6:17am
[quote=consumercity. Child rapists are the worst type of criminal as attested by the fact that even murderers think they are horrible.[/QUOTE]
Not arguing with you here but something interesting to note is that there is a real psychological phenomena behind the mindset of the "regular" criminal demographic when it comes to their reasoning for not being tolerant of "skinners".It comes from their own reactions to how society sees themselves:as degenerates,lowlife, etc..To feel good about themselves, they need a subset of society to look down on further, and they find that in pedophiles. When I worked with sex offenders,there happened to be a large riot at the local provincial penitentiary ( 2 years less a day time) and many of the pedophiles were rounded up by other inmates, beaten severely and the majority had all their fingers cut off (so they couldn't use them to hurt anyone further)...I had a few clients thereafter missing a few or all of their digits along with a hefty amount of terrifying nightmares.
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post #48 of 53
9/24/05 at 7:25am
I'm all for castration of a pervert who gets his or her jollies with a child. I don't mean chemical castration I mean cut the offending organ off. Yep I see red when I hear about this kind of thing Not only does it scar the child for life it will affect any relationship a child will have in his/her future. Vigilante Justice?.....right or wrong I'm all for it.

From one who was in the shoes of the child at one point in time.
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post #49 of 53
9/24/05 at 10:46am
I think if a parent catches someone in the act of molesting a child than protecting that child by shooting the rapist is ok- but vigilante justice I'm not ok with. Self-defense is one thing- but to just outright kill someone will lead to way more harm than good I think. The child won't have a mother anymore! After going through something like that a child needs her mother- I can speak from personal experience. I agree with putting the raptists in the general prison population though. I didn't get special protection from them- I don't think they should get special protection from their cellmate.
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post #50 of 53
9/24/05 at 6:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
Not arguing with you here but something interesting to note is that there is a real psychological phenomena behind the mindset of the "regular" criminal demographic when it comes to their reasoning for not being tolerant of "skinners".It comes from their own reactions to how society sees themselves:as degenerates,lowlife, etc..To feel good about themselves, they need a subset of society to look down on further, and they find that in pedophiles. When I worked with sex offenders,there happened to be a large riot at the local provincial penitentiary ( 2 years less a day time) and many of the pedophiles were rounded up by other inmates, beaten severely and the majority had all their fingers cut off (so they couldn't use them to hurt anyone further)...I had a few clients thereafter missing a few or all of their digits along with a hefty amount of terrifying nightmares.
Anybody IS better than a child rapist, IMO, and those pedophiles are lucky their fingers are all that was cut off.

I hope they continue to have nightmares for the rest of their lives, because the children who were their victims most certainly will.
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post #51 of 53
9/25/05 at 7:20am
I'm assuming that during the riot that was all the time they had to cut something off...Other "parts" may have taken longer. They weren't all pedophiles but were all either convicted of some sex offense or unfortunately some lesser offense that caused them to be put in the same minimum security population...Those were the unlucky ones, that's for sure... )
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post #52 of 53
9/25/05 at 5:35pm
Sometimes two wrongs DO make a right.
It may prevent a 3rd wrong..and a 4th..and so on, and so on.
Throw them into the general prison population & let them suffer a thousand nightmares.
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post #53 of 53
9/25/05 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me-n-my guys
Sometimes two wrongs DO make a right.
It may prevent a 3rd wrong..and a 4th..and so on, and so on.
Throw them into the general prison population & let them suffer a thousand nightmares.
I agree, NO MERCY.

And as for having finger cut off and nightmares, isn't that just to to bad.
Pretty darn sad we have to leave the real justice for these monsters to
convicts in prisons. Maybe the judicial system is to "squeamish" to give
them what they really deserve, a bullet in the brain.'They NEVER repay their deby to society IMO, ever.
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