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"Vigilante Justice" against child rapists - what's your opinion?

post #1 of 53
Thread Starter 
This story is about a father who posed as an FBI officer, and interviewed 3 registered sex offenders, and killed 2 of them. http://www.komonews.com/news/story.asp?ID=39003
The Nancy Grace Show had an interesting segment on it, posing some tough, intriguing questions. For instance, will this be a reason NOT to publicly list the addresses of registered sex offenders?
Should the law look only at the crime, and not the victims? If it considers that the victims were child rapists, does that mean that characters of other victims of crime should be considered (I'm mostly thinking of sex workers who have been raped).
According to the NG show, the killer was a victim of molesting himself, and says he did it to protect his children, and the future victims of these men. He had also said that he didn't kill the 3rd s.o. because that man showed remorse for his former crimes, and didn't seem like he would do it again.
Should the society consider the fact that sex offenders are the perpetrators most likely to commit the same crime again & again? After all, these men did serve their sentences and were in compliance with registering with law enforcement. But the likelihood of their attacking again is high.
Personally, I think that protecting the safety of our children and the society as a whole takes precendence over the needs of these men (and yes, I realize that they, too, often were victims of abuse themselves - i feel so badly for those children being mistreated today). Had these men been serving stiffer sentences, they would not be dead today; either way, little ones were protected.
On the other hand, vigilante actions are so scary and it is easy for them to get out of hand - as when blacks in the South were abused & killed by gangs of white men.
What do you think?
post #2 of 53
I think vigilante acts are a grossly understated and serious sign that current laws are ineffective and need drastic change that isn't in the favor of criminals.
post #3 of 53
I do not pity sex offenders who are singled out and victimized. But vigilante "justice" isn't the solution. What we really need is a drastic change in the way society views crime and punishment, especially when it comes to child abuse, domestic violence and sex crimes.
post #4 of 53
Since prisons are for housing societies ills (used loosely) .... I dont understand why there are drug addicts , they need treatment and white coller ,,, surely community service and a new line of work will work... making up over 70% of the prison population... My idea is keep rapists annd molesters for life behind bars... My little community of five counties was rocked by two horrid crimes ( sex crimes wi9th murder and attpemted murder ) from sex offenders that were released>>>??
post #5 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydroaxe
I think vigilante acts are a grossly understated and serious sign that current laws are ineffective and need drastic change that isn't in the favor of criminals.
Totally agree. The law, in this country at least, is often ineffective and way too soft on offenders.
post #6 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakeriedog
I do not pity sex offenders who are singled out and victimized. But vigilante "justice" isn't the solution. What we really need is a drastic change in the way society views crime and punishment, especially when it comes to child abuse, domestic violence and sex crimes.
Took the words right out of my mouth! Thanks for including domestic violence in that
post #7 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky
Since prisons are for housing societies ills (used loosely) .... I dont understand why there are drug addicts , they need treatment and white coller ,,, surely community service and a new line of work will work... making up over 70% of the prison population... My idea is keep rapists annd molesters for life behind bars... My little community of five counties was rocked by two horrid crimes ( sex crimes wi9th murder and attpemted murder ) from sex offenders that were released>>>??
I don't really understand what you are saying here, Sharky? What do drug addicts need and who makes up 70% of the prison population???
I just didn't get that part.
post #8 of 53
I can't agree with vigilante justice. That man was as far out of his rights to murder those men as those men were to rape those children. His crime is NOT lessened because of who his victims were. Who does he think HE is to make the decisions whether or not these men would reoffend or not? What if he was wrong??? What IF (big if I know) those men were wrongly convicted in the first place? What I do agree with is the idea that the justice system itself needs to readdress its forms of "punishment" in the first place, something that would greatly drop or eliminate the instances of reoffending....for any crime.
post #9 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Februa
I can't agree with vigilante justice. That man was as far out of his rights to murder those men as those men were to rape those children. His crime is NOT lessened because of who his victims were. Who does he think HE is to make the decisions whether or not these men would reoffend or not? What if he was wrong??? What IF (big if I know) those men were wrongly convicted in the first place? What I do agree with is the idea that the justice system itself needs to readdress its forms of "punishment" in the first place, something that would greatly drop or eliminate the instances of reoffending....for any crime.
Ditto
post #10 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Februa
I can't agree with vigilante justice. That man was as far out of his rights to murder those men as those men were to rape those children. His crime is NOT lessened because of who his victims were. Who does he think HE is to make the decisions whether or not these men would reoffend or not? What if he was wrong??? What IF (big if I know) those men were wrongly convicted in the first place? What I do agree with is the idea that the justice system itself needs to readdress its forms of "punishment" in the first place, something that would greatly drop or eliminate the instances of reoffending....for any crime.
I think the only thing the Justice System can do to to eliminate the chances of pedophiles reoffending is to terminate their lives and I am all for terminating the lives of ALL pedophiles.
post #11 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
I don't really understand what you are saying here, Sharky? What do drug addicts need and who makes up 70% of the prison population???
I just didn't get that part.
70% of our prison population is there on drug related charges... I think rehabe is a better alternative ( less costly an dmore likely to work ) so that prison s can be used to keep the hardened criminals like sex offenders that we have no treatment for ...
post #12 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky
70% of our prison population is there on drug related charges... I think rehabe is a better alternative ( less costly an dmore likely to work ) so that prison s can be used to keep the hardened criminals like sex offenders that we have no treatment for ...
I think its more like 60% for Federal time and 25% for State time (going by the stats where you live).
However, most of these offenders are drug traffickers or dealers. This doesn't mean they are drug addicts.

I wholeheartedly agree that we should take a second look at all drug offense related incarcerations though and free up some valuable space for others.
post #13 of 53
Makes me wish I could go live on another planet.
post #14 of 53
As good as it sounds and as much as I would be tempted if a loved one was hurt, I don't believe in vigilante justice. Imagine this situation (true story): A woman caught her husband having sex with their young son. She shot and killed him. Unfortunately, she was convicted and spent several years in prison. During that time her 2 children stayed in foster care. The foster parents eventually had to send the boy back because he had violent episodes and they were afraid of their own family's safety. The children were separated. They were teenagers when their mom was released. They really needed her while they were growing up, but she couldn't be there.

I agree with Ryan. "I think vigilante acts are a grossly understated and serious sign that current laws are ineffective and need drastic change that isn't in the favor of criminals."
post #15 of 53
poor boy. I can't begin to imagine the dysfunction in his head This is yes, why, I don't believe in putting fate in the hands of victims or the basic public. So much could go so horribly wrong ..Look at the KKK.
post #16 of 53
Umm, comparing a mother who murders the perp that sexually molest her child no matter who it is to the KKK is a little unfair IMO.
KKK killed because of skin color.
post #17 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
Umm, comparing a mother who murders the perp that sexually molest her child no matter who it is to the KKK is a little unfair IMO.
KKK killed because of skin color.
Both are vigilante forms of justice..Both think they are doing the 'Right' thing to either protect society or elicit their own brand of justice.And IMO,both are wrong....Not to mention that it doesn't stop with angry fathers or mothers..Vigilante Justice supports the lynch mob concept, which is downright dangerous and wrong IMO.
post #18 of 53
Frankly, this is the primary reason why I will never have children. Admittedly, I do not trust many men and will likely be alone for the rest of my life... and for very good reason I might add.

From the situation Rockcat mentioned, if I walked in on my husband raping my son, I would most definitely take the law into my own hands. As far as I'm concerned, no adult who rapes children deserves to live.
post #19 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
Both are vigilante forms of justice..Both think they are doing the 'Right' thing to either protect society or elicit their own brand of justice.And IMO,both are wrong....Not to mention that it doesn't stop with angry fathers or mothers..Vigilante Justice supports the lynch mob concept, which is downright dangerous and wrong IMO.
It's not wrong to kill someone in defense of yourself or your child.
Shouldn't be legally wrong either. I don't think this woman should have been convicted, after all, she caught him in the act.
post #20 of 53
I don't know. I imagine that if you're father is raping you and your mother witnesses it, that seeing her shoot him may actually not help the situation.

I'm against it because I think people would have trouble drawing a line. I mean, what if you didn't *see* it, but were pretty sure? Or, had a feeling about it? Or, that guy looked at your daughter wrong? I mean, people already kill each other over these sort of things anyway, I don't want to give them any sort of legal defense.
post #21 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by eatrawfish
I don't know. I imagine that if you're father is raping you and your mother witnesses it, that seeing her shoot him may actually not help the situation.

I'm against it because I think people would have trouble drawing a line. I mean, what if you didn't *see* it, but were pretty sure? Or, had a feeling about it? Or, that guy looked at your daughter wrong? I mean, people already kill each other over these sort of things anyway, I don't want to give them any sort of legal defense.
Self-defense is self defense. And I imagine if somebody is being raped, shooting the rapist is going to help the situation. A person should be able to defend themselves or their relatives without being arrested and trown in jail for it. I don't think it has anything to do with thinking somebody might be doing something. Saving someone when the act is going on is completely different and should be legal.
post #22 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizwithcat
It's not wrong to kill someone in defense of yourself or your child.
Shouldn't be legally wrong either. I don't think this woman should have been convicted, after all, she caught him in the act.
That is simply your opinion though. While of course it would indeed be difficult to hold myself back and you sure can believe this man would get a sound and near death beating at the hands of my anyone of my family, killing this person would be wrong. Do you see that in this instance the mother went to jail for murder?This kid lost his innocence and the one person that he needed most at that point and every point thereafter in his young life. Murder is still illegal. You will go to jail for it. An eye for an eye in this case made for a termi nally unhappy little boy and this is what I don't agree with. Not to mention that if this sort of thing were condoned in society, no one would be safe. People can be very very irrational. This wasn't in defense of a child. This was catching someone in a horrible criminal act where some obvious and expected anger resulted. Those are two different things. This man didn't come at her with a weapon or continue with his act when she walked in. You can bet he stopped what he was doing. Therefore she had choices other than to kill him. This is the premise behind the defense argument. If the ONLY choice you have in a situation is one that rests on defending yourself or a loved one, then its feasible. And you can bet her lawyer would have used that defense if that were the case.
post #23 of 53
It's difficult to know what each of us would do in the heat of the moment. I don't believe in vigilantly killing. But if someone was trying to hurt me or my family, I would defend myself at all costs.
post #24 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizwithcat
Self-defense is self defense. And I imagine if somebody is being raped, shooting the rapist is going to help the situation. A person should be able to defend themselves or their relatives without being arrested and trown in jail for it. I don't think it has anything to do with thinking somebody might be doing something. Saving someone when the act is going on is completely different and should be legal.
I think that you are right and I am surprised that the mother got such shoddy treatment by the system. And I'm really surprised that she was charged with murder, rather than manslaughter, since she obviously was temporarily crazed, in utter & complete response to what was happening to her child rather than premeditating killing her husband, or killing him while doing something highly likely to kill (such as drunk driving). I think that that particular case says lots about the defense provided to the mom, unless the DA proved that she was using the sexual assault on her son as an excuse.
post #25 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme
I think that you are right and I am surprised that the mother got such shoddy treatment by the system. And I'm really surprised that she was charged with murder, rather than manslaughter, since she obviously was temporarily crazed, in utter & complete response to what was happening to her child rather than premeditating killing her husband, or killing him while doing something highly likely to kill (such as drunk driving). I think that that particular case says lots about the defense provided to the mom, unless the DA proved that she was using the sexual assault on her son as an excuse.
We all know it's all about lawyers and money. Robert Durst got off on self-defense, and he cut the guy's head off, for crying out loud.
This woman was convicted, I bet she had a public defender.
post #26 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizwithcat
We all know it's all about lawyers and money. Robert Durst got off on self-defense, and he cut the guy's head off, for crying out loud.
This woman was convicted, I bet she had a public defender.
So you still think this is a crime of self defense? My point is that albeit a sad and horrible situation, this was NOT a crime of self defense.(or the defense of anyone for that matter...meaning a persons life is at stake).
post #27 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
So you still think this is a crime of self defense? My point is that albeit a sad and horrible situation, this was NOT a crime of self defense.(or the defense of anyone for that matter...meaning a persons life is at stake).
So, should the person be allowed to defend themselves or others from rape?
Or what, the rapist should just be allowed to do it, as long as you think he isn't going to kill the victim?
post #28 of 53
I recently saw Geraldo interview the father of the girl who was molested and murdered, and the boy (Dylan Groene) who was molested but saved. He reported that a man recently killed a few child molesters, and said it was for the first man's kids. Geraldo asked the father's view of the murderer. The father was rather pro-vigilante.

That I understand, if your child is attacked and/or killed, you want blood. But for most of us, surely the idea of someone taking the law into their own hands is horrible! What kind of person can stalk and kill? This is not a nice person. At what point do they go over the edge and kill innocents?

Stiffer penalties are definitely in order. Anyone who destroys a child by killing them or molesting them should forfeit all freedom. That said, does a 19 y/o who has consensual sex with his 14 y/o girlfriend fall in the same category as a 40 y/o who rapes a 2 y/o? We need stricter penalties for the perverts, but not vigilante justice.
post #29 of 53
Have a feeling i would do exactly what this poor woman did, shoot him dead.
That kids life is ruined irregardless of her killing the dad.
His life is over, the father got what he deserved, I wish they all would get the same. No mercy, they give none, they get none. Period.
post #30 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizwithcat
So, should the person be allowed to defend themselves or others from rape?
Or what, the rapist should just be allowed to do it, as long as you think he isn't going to kill the victim?
I really don't think that is what was meant. The first post indicated, and I would tend to agree, that the man in question *probably* stopped when she walked in on it. At that point all she needed to do was throw the a## out and call the police. Taking a gun and killing him was not necessary; it was revenge. And there is a difference between revenge and self-defense. If she tried to stop him and he resisted and continued harming the boy, then I can see her using deadly force. But somehow I don't think that's what happened. To use an example, if some guy takes a swing at me and I take him down with a foot to the groin, that's self defense. If I then proceed to beat the crap out of him and then kill him while he's incapacitated on the ground, that's NOT self-defense. You use enough force to protect yourself or others, and that's it.
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