Judge declares Pledge unconstitutional - Page 7

Oh, and no I do not feel they were activist judges. They were judges doing the right thing. Wish we had some of them in today's society.

Actually, that was Cambodia under Pol Pot, not Vietnam. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/78988.stm

Yes I knew that and knew someone would get me on it. You know your history.

I literally grew up with the Vietnam War, so it, and other "events" in Southeast Asia, aren't distant history to me.

Oddly enough, Vietnam is now a thriving Communist country.

Here are two links for anyone interested in the history of In God We Trust on our money. It is also something that was NOT done by the founding fathers but began as part of the Civil War. The first link has a discussion of the controversy over the use of God both in the pledge and on money. The second is straight from the U.S. Treasury.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

http://www.ustreas.gov/educaton/fact...-we-trust.html

Here Here!

JUST dont see the words "thriving" and "communist" as going together.
Are you sure about this? Thriving according to who?

This is from the Wikipedia website -- a nonpolitical fact-based web site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Vietnam

1. In 1986 the Communist Party of Vietnam abandoned Marxist economic planning as part of an economic reform known as Doi Moi (Renovation).

2. Vietnam experienced 8% GDP growth from 1990-1997 and 7% from 2000-2002 making it the world's second fastest growing economy.

3. During this time investments tripled and domestic savings quintupled.

From a Vietnamese business newspaper:

www.vneconomy.com.vn/eng/index.php

Vietnam has been listed among the top 12 performers in the world in 2004, according to Doing Business in 2006 an annual report released worldwide by World Bank (WB) and the International Finance Corp. (IFC) on Sept. 14, (2005).

So, at least in this case thriving and Communist do go together. I found this out watching a TV show called POV on public television about Vietnam Vets and Vietnam children adopted by Americans going back to visit Vietnam now that it is open to Americans.

whoa, what an interesting thread! i especially appreciate the well thought out and written responses by "bumpy". this can be a very emotional topic and its hard for people to stick to the facts without being overwhelmed with by their feelings.

one person breifly mentioned that jehovah's witnesses do not believe in reciting the pledge.
when i was in elementary school, back in the mid 60s, there was a family of jehovah's witnesses in our neighborhood (it was a small town, we did not have any people of color at that time either)


their kids were not forced to say the pledge, they were allowed to stay seated during it.


when my daughter was in high school some ten years ago, she *was* required to stand, however she did not have to recite the pledge.



we were taught to both fear and pity that family of jehovah's witnesses (pity them because they did not celebrate any holidays, not even their birthdays, oh the horror! LOL)

i never knew why, really, i was just a kid.

that being said, i think we need to remember that it is CHILDREN who are being required (in many instances) to stand and recite something that very few of them even understand.

how can someone pledge allegiance to something when they do not even know what the word "allegiance" means??

why do we need a pledge at all? (please do not attack me, that is a rhetorical question ok???)

if anyone thinks that words are not important, try communicating without them.

if they are not important, why are we having this debate?

words are important, and i think the history of the world shows how words can be used and misused for many reasons.

i don't think we should take these things lightly

on the other hand, i do think we have more important things to worry about, IF we were discussing priorities, which i do not think was the original topic.

and for off topic stuff:

did no one else notice that the drop out rate for hispanics has remained essentially unchanged in many decades (can't recall how many)??

i know that is totally OT, but there is one thing right there to be concerned about, since the spanish speaking population is, i have heard, projected to be in the majority in the not too distant future. do we want out future majority of citizens to be uneducated?

just my random thoughts, so much of what i would have wanted to say was already said, mostly by the eloquent bumpy but also someone with rawfish in their name ( my apologies, my memory is bad due to illness)

I have been and always will be proud to recite the Pledge Of Allegiance to the United States of America. I am proud to live in the greatest country on earth.

Me too.