Any Breeders who Also Show on here?

I'm just wondering how many other people show in any of the major registries on here. I did show in CFA and utterly hated it, so I'll be sticking with TICA for the most part until I feel that I'm established enough to do better than I have (plus the people are so rude in CFA, I can't handle no points, disapointment, and extreme meaness all put together!).

I'm in the Great Lakes Region (region 4 in CFA), might I have seen any of you guys around? If so what breeds do you show?

Originally Posted by Mihoshi

I'm just wondering how many other people show in any of the major registries on here. I did show in CFA and utterly hated it, so I'll be sticking with TICA for the most part until I feel that I'm established enough to do better than I have (plus the people are so rude in CFA, I can't handle no points, disapointment, and extreme meaness all put together!).

I'm in the Great Lakes Region (region 4 in CFA), might I have seen any of you guys around? If so what breeds do you show?

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We show with TICA. As a matter of fact we'll be at the show in Toledo near the end of Sept.
Maybe we'll see you there.
CFA won't allow bengals......I guess they're afraid they'll show up the Ocicats.
(just kidding...you CFA folks!)

Yes, I've heard about the Bengal controversies in CFA. They say it's because they're part ferral, but I wouldn't doubt that there's more to it than that being that they're snuddy as all heck there.

I will be at the Toledo show, but only Friday! Sessler and Ashley are my two only real hopes of getting another Best Cat and Supreming that day, so no since in dragging it out all weekend.

Now that I really look at your name I think I have seen your cats in one of the big fancy set ups.

Originally Posted by Mihoshi

Now that I really look at your name I think I have seen your cats in one of the big fancy set ups.

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lol....nope that wouldn't be us. We're very low key...sorta stealth mode. You wouldn't even notice us there. Besides it's all about how the cats look, not the set-up...right?
My wife and I are more into having fun and not getting into all the politics and nonsense.....not our style.
If our cats win...yeehaw! If not....you won't see us grumble. It's supposed to be fun..and we love our cats regardless!
I hope you get your cats Supremed though.....we're showing a kitten and a novice this time. Leaving our TGC's at home...this show is too far away.

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

We show with TICA. As a matter of fact we'll be at the show in Toledo near the end of Sept.
Maybe we'll see you there.
CFA won't allow bengals......I guess they're afraid they'll show up the Ocicats.
(just kidding...you CFA folks!)

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That's funny because the last show (CFA) we went to there was an Ocicat there and they said she seldom does well because a judge there was once "attacked" by an Ocicat. From what I remember it had something to do with a distraction and the cat got spooked. Too bad they seem to take it out on a whole breed if something like that happens

My Bengal shows up my Ocicat here everyday. LOL He is NUTS.

I wish I could show them. I wouldn't even know where to begin though and I am not sure how close to standard any of them are.

Jesse James is out of the question because he is a hybrid.

Riley has too much tarnish on him.

Zeke and Savannah would be my only options.

Savannah does not have the personality for it.

So, I guess that leaves Zeke. Zeke's breeder was pretty much a borderline BYB now that I think about it. Her cats had papers, but she didn't know much about breeding them and this was her first litter. She didn't even give the kittens their first shots! Looking back I probably should not have purchased a kitten from a breeder like that but I wanted a Bengal, the price was right, I got to see the parents and their paper, so I went for it. They were raised right, that's for sure. The house was spotless the kids handled the cats everday and were great with the kittens. He was a very happy, well adjusted kitten. He still LOVES kids. Even my two year old goddaughter.

Bobbie

Well I'm from NZ and I show with our world known registry, the New Zealand Cat Fancy (NZCF Inc). I breed and show beautiful Persians and Exotics!

I showed for over 25 yrs (in HHP's at first, then pedigrees). Haven't shown for about 8 yrs now. But I bred and showed cornish rexes and russian blues. Showed in CFA and ACFA. My rex is a multiple grand champion in ACFA (regional/national winner for several years) and grand in CFA and also unofficial grand in TICA. I never registered him in TICA - went to one show as a novice and he granded that weekend - was not challanging to me so I never pursued it. I don't agree with TICA's policys concerning "new breeds".

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

I don't agree with TICA's policys concerning "new breeds".

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What exactly don't you agree with?

Well, I'll be honestly, I don't know all of TICA's politics and policies yet. I got my first good looking show cat in late '04 and just started showing in February (and my mentor's in Canada, so it's not an easy thing to ask about things I don't know to ask about). But I've learned a lot already and so far I highly prefer TICA to CFA.

I go crazy when I see someone bring up their cat, smooze with the judge that they've known for 10 years, then get a top 5 placement. Or the judge I saw who annonced to the ring that he breed a certain cat that he was judging, then give that cat a best!

I'm not so nieve to think that it's all politics, a good cat will get you threw, but I also can't believe that judges don't place their friends and themselves. But it's hard on me showing Maus, the only time I get him placed is when there's another Mau in the same class, otherwise he's ignored every time. Maybe I'm crazy, but it appears to me that if you have 15 Maine Coons at least 1 will final - I personally think that it's because there are so many Coons looked at so a phenominal cat will obviously stand out, but when your 1/1 in your breed and new to the show hall, most judges pass the cat over because the quality is not as obvious with no comparision.

Kai, I don't like starting wars so please don't "attack" me, but I do not agree with mixing wild cats into domestic cats. I feel TICA accepts just about any kind of cat people breed/create. There are many breeds out there now, that I feel should not be encouraged.

Let's leave it at that so we don't start flame wars - who's right/who's wrong. This is my opinion on the subject.

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Kai, I don't like starting wars so please don't "attack" me, but I do not agree with mixing wild cats into domestic cats. I feel TICA accepts just about any kind of cat people breed/create. There are many breeds out there now, that I feel should not be encouraged.

Let's leave it at that so we don't start flame wars - who's right/who's wrong. This is my opinion on the subject.

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I would never attack you for stating your opinion. I'm not sure why you're on the defensive, I was just curious why you aren't fond of TICA.
Now I know why..thank-you!

Originally Posted by Mihoshi

Well, I'll be honestly, I don't know all of TICA's politics and policies yet. I got my first good looking show cat in late '04 and just started showing in February (and my mentor's in Canada, so

it's not an easy thing to ask about things I don't know to ask about). But I've learned a lot already and so far I highly prefer TICA to CFA.

I go crazy when I see someone bring up their cat, smooze with the judge that they've known for 10 years, then get a top 5 placement. Or the judge I saw who annonced to the ring that he breed a certain cat that he was judging, then give that cat a best!

I'm not so nieve to think that it's all politics, a good cat will get you threw, but I also can't believe that judges don't place their friends and themselves. But it's hard on me showing Maus, the only time I get him placed is when there's another Mau in the same class, otherwise he's ignored every time. Maybe I'm crazy, but it appears to me that if you have 15 Maine Coons at least 1 will final - I personally think that it's because there are so many Coons looked at so a phenominal cat will obviously stand out, but when your 1/1 in your breed and new to the show hall, most judges pass the cat over because the quality is not as obvious with no comparision.

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I hear what you're saying. I think that sort of thing goes on in most of the organizations. Unfortunate that it can't be less biased. It's clear that the judges have their favorite breeds and will score them better everytime.
We keep plugging along though..hoping for the best.

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

I feel TICA accepts just about any kind of cat people breed/create. There are many breeds out there now, that I feel should not be encouraged.

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I actually agree with that point myself. TICA is a little too liberal with accepting whatever is out there, and it's only promoting kitten mills left and right and encouraging every Joe Shmoe to make his/her own cat breed. It's as bad as getting a designer dog lately, how long before breeders start going "tell me what you want and I'll cross it!"? At least the AKC won't recognize them, but TICA probably would accept the designer cats.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Bengals or most other established hybrids being recognized, but when do you say enough's enough? It seems like Jean Mill had an idea that she worked incredibly hard on, and now everyone and their brother is trying to copy it to get some fame and make some $$$. Some higher standards definately need to be in place with this day and age or we will end up with more and more new breeds until nobody cares about the purebred cat.

Thank you Kia

Sometimes you have people that defend their breeding and I don't like to start wars over it. I've seen people get into heated arguments of right/wrong.

That's why I stated it was my opinion and not to get angry about my opinion.

There are dog breeds too that I don't like and feel should not be bred.

I will agree the CFA seems to be the most political association; however I've seen politics in showing in all the associations - AFCA and TICA. In fact, it was funny but when I showed my rex (who was granded in 2 associations before TICA), one judge completely dumped him on one day and then turned around and judged him again on Sunday and gave him a top award....never made sense to me as she had the SAME cats both days - just one as AB, one as SP. If he was good enough to final on Sunday under her, why didn't she put him up on Saturday? lol And she stood there and "raved" about him being an excellant example of the breed with the best coat on a rex she'd seen - it was the SAME cat she judged on Saturday!

I also feel that you should not have the same judge judging your cats on both days of a 2-day show. ACFA has a complete new set of judges each day and in CFA you also only are judged once by each judge.

If we get right down to it........all domestic cats are hybrids of the wild cat.

Felis silvestris lybica & Felis silvestris ornata are the 2 subspecies that most of our domestics stemmed from.

I have mixed feelings about the experimental and provisional breeds being allowed into TICA.
If I were to say it's wrong to allow this one or that one, all the while promoting the bengal breed, which was once an experimental breed, that would make me sort of a hypocrite.
I do agree that people shouldn't be crossing, just to see what comes of it.
But exactly where do you draw the line in the sand?....tough question.

There used to be about 25-35 different "breeds" of cats. AKC had 100-200 different breeds of dogs. I don't know what the count is for cats and dogs now, but are the cat people trying to create as many different breeds of cats to equal the same number of breeds of dogs????

Something to think about.

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Kai, I don't like starting wars so please don't "attack" me, but I do not agree with mixing wild cats into domestic cats. I feel TICA accepts just about any kind of cat people breed/create. There are many breeds out there now, that I feel should not be encouraged.

Let's leave it at that so we don't start flame wars - who's right/who's wrong. This is my opinion on the subject.

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I imagine that given just a little time, this topic could easily become a flame war. However, I feel the need to point out that TICA does not ACCEPT just about any breed of cat people breed/create as you put it. It is, however, required under TICA's own rules that it must REGISTER what is put before it. Registration does not equal acceptance. Many, many breeds of cats will never get out of the registration stage and will eventually disappear. It is an extremely long and involved process to go from registration to the championship stage. Registration merely makes it possible to track parentage. Every association is, first and foremost, a REGISTRY. Let's not forget that CFA bills itself as the "largest registry of purebred cats in the world".

There are breeds which have been accepted for championship, not just registration, in America since the inception of the cat fancy here (or for at least 50 years) with which I would not agree - namely, Manx and Scottish Folds - both breeds of which display skeletal deformities if bred true; for instance, tailless Manx to tailless Manx or folded Scottish Fold to folded Scottish Fold. Therefore, it is not even safe, nor ethical, for these cats to be bred true.

If you are breeding Rex (Cornish Rex is it?), then you are well aware of what Ellen Weiss thought about pointed Cornish Rex although the Rex is a natural mutation from the domestic populace carrying the Himalayan gene and also although the only cats close in type to breed Cornish to when they were brought to the U.S. were Siamese.

While you might not agree with people creating different breeds of cats, I imagine no one was thrilled about accepting the Rex in the 1950s when that breed was initially imported to the U.S. If new breeds are not allowed to be developed then the cat fancy will become more stagnant than it already is. Certainly everyone has the right to his or her own opinion - that's what makes the world go round. I see no reason for people not to develop new breeds, but my criteria for what should and should not be a breed is not based on whether I like a certain breed or not - it is based on the genetic health of the cats produced from these breedings. Long before a line of cats can even begin to become a breed in TICA or other associations, it must pass the muster of a Genetics Committee. Therefore, it is highly doubtful that a short-legged, tailless, curled-ear breed of cat will ever be produced as a viable breed since at least two of the mutations (short legs and taillessness) have shown lethal or partial lethal problems in some lines. Some lines of Munchkins have shown pectus and the taillessness of the Manx is a form of spina bifida.

Since most breeds of cats are based upon one mutation or another, how do you decide, other than genetic health, what mutation should be perpetuated or not?

Barb Amalfi

Have been breeding and showing Siamese and Orientals in CFA, TICA, ACFA, CFF for 16+ years.

Barb Amalfi

I know TICA has a long genetics process, just seems they accept anything (or did for awhile). I agree with you on if the cats are producing lethal genes (SF, Munchkins, Manx) they shouldn't be bred.

What gets me is those that breed SF/Manx HAVE bred tailless to tailless which is against the code of ethics. When you have a Grand Manx bred to a Grand Manx you know very well they don't have tails. I saw this many times in CFA cats - I read the parents of the entries!

And as for EWeis.... I won't even go there.....she's not on my "most popular" list

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

I know TICA has a long genetics process, just seems they accept anything (or did for awhile). I agree with you on if the cats are producing lethal genes (SF, Munchkins, Manx) they shouldn't be bred.

I guess you are saying that only the current breeds of cats should be bred and that others shouldn't be developed. Just because a certain breed of cat is not my cup of tea, I don't have the feeling that "just anything" is being accepted.

I didn't say it wasn't safe to breed these cats if one knows how. I'm sure that Cornish have lethals, as do every other breed. Would you also be against Devon Rex because of luxating patella? Or Persians because of polycystic kidney disease?

What gets me is those that breed SF/Manx HAVE bred tailless to tailless which is against the code of ethics.

Please show me exactly where this "code of ethics" is other than simple common sense. I'm sure that people reading this post would be most interested.

When you have a Grand Manx bred to a Grand Manx you know very well they don't have tails. I saw this many times in CFA cats - I read the parents of the entries!

Well, that's strange, because tailless to tailless Manx do not come to term in uterero.

And as for EWeis....

I won't even go there.....she's not on my "most popular" list

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Please see my responses within the body of the quotes. Apparently I can't type in below the words in the quoted text and have it show up in this area. I'll have to keep that in mind.

If I was showing against her in your breed, she probably wouldn't be mine either. She certainly had the most refined Cornish I have seen in ANY association. But I found her to be quite informative and interesting although outspoken in her likes and dislikes. BTW, she died several years back. Were you aware?

Barb Amalfi