More toilet training woes

I'm going to snap on poor London any minute. This cat can use the toilet. I've seen him. I've rewarded him with treats and love and pets and cuddles every time he correctly does it. But if I'm downstairs, or out of the house? It's straight to the guest bed. It's not messing up the mattress because I put a plastic cover over it, but the whole room is just starting to smell like urine. Today I flipped the mattress up so he CAN'T go on it, like it or not, but is their any way to discourage the behavior when I'm not home? The whole toilet training thing is really important to me, but this is driving me crazy, especially since my other cat, Alcott, is SO bright and has the hang of toilet training. But when London started peeing on the bed (in the past 4ish days) Alcott began drinking out of the toilet, though he still uses it (I don't think he drinks out of the dirty water though).

Has London been for a visit to the vet to have a checkup incase theres anything wrong?.

Whatever you do don't lose your cool with him because this is going to stress him and make him worse

Also, did you look at those links Hissy put on for you to look at in your other thread?

Originally Posted by RinaDaventry

I'm going to snap on poor London any minute. This cat can use the toilet. I've seen him. I've rewarded him with treats and love and pets and cuddles every time he correctly does it. But if I'm downstairs, or out of the house? It's straight to the guest bed. It's not messing up the mattress because I put a plastic cover over it, but the whole room is just starting to smell like urine. Today I flipped the mattress up so he CAN'T go on it, like it or not, but is their any way to discourage the behavior when I'm not home? The whole toilet training thing is really important to me, but this is driving me crazy, especially since my other cat, Alcott, is SO bright and has the hang of toilet training. But when London started peeing on the bed (in the past 4ish days) Alcott began drinking out of the toilet, though he still uses it (I don't think he drinks out of the dirty water though).

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I think the toilet training is a difficult thing for most cats. There are a few wild cats that use water to defecate in, but not many. By and large most cats have the need to bury their eliminations.
I wonder if London considers the toilet more of a source of drinking water and is reluctant to use it as a place to do his business.
You might try putting a plastic tarp over your guest bed for a couple of weeks. He won't like the sound it makes when he walks on it and he probably won't pee on it. If does, it's easy clean-up for you.
Problem with the guest bed is that he can smell where he pee'd before, even if you can't, so he'll go there again, especially if he's not keen on using the toilet.
Does he have any alternative to using the toilet?

Originally Posted by RinaDaventry

I'm going to snap on poor London any minute. This cat can use the toilet. I've seen him. ............................But when London started peeing on the bed (in the past 4ish days) Alcott began drinking out of the toilet, though he still uses it (I don't think he drinks out of the dirty water though).

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Do you mean that they use the human toilet only? Do they have litter boxes??

No litter boxes, just a human toilet.
The thing is that Alcott, who uses the toilet well, is the one drinking out of it. I've never caught London drinking from it. Alcott shows great interest in the toilet in general though- he walks around the seat, bats at the water when its clean, and uses it well. London....he seems to have the attitude of "Why jump up there when I could pee here?"
I'll get London checked out when we go in for his neuter next week. I've put a plastic tarp over the bed, and even flipped the mattress hoping that the scent on the other side wouldn't be as strong and he wouldn't go there again. He doesn't have an alternative to using the toilet because I know they naturally would choose the litterbox over the toilet, even Alcott. My understanding was that the covering instinct isn't really a covering instinct, but an instinct to hide the smell, and that therefore toilet training isn't too horrible an idea. Could it possibly just be that London is about a month younger than Alcott?

I've just asked in your other thread if you meant a human toilet?.

That to me sound like the problem. Although some cats do use a human toilet, it's not suited to all cats, so why don't you try and leave a litterpan down and see if he goes on that, because he obviously doesn't feel comfortable using a human toilet

You can get decent litters and scouped twice a day there won't be any smell if thats what your worried about?!

It's actually not the smell-- its that my schedule is VERY inconsitent and I often work 12+ hour days, so its very difficult for me to get the litterbox cleaned twice a day everyday. Whats more is the price of litter....I'm a college senior and it would be a nice bonus to not have the expense. Naturally, if London flatly refuses to ever use the toilet, I''ll go to litter again, but the fact that he uses it sometimes gives me hope! I think perhaps his age is a bigger factor than I anticipated. I even bought a padded toilet seat so he would have more traction, which seems to have helped a little.

You are asking a cat to go against instinct- they eliminate on the ground and then they bury their waste. That is ingrained in them. You getting angry at your cats because you expect them to be human, is unrealistic. If you don't have the time to scoop out litter pans then buy an automated litter box, or one of the other litter pans out there on the market.

If your schedule is such that you don't have time to scoop- when do you have time to feed? When do you have time to play and interact with these cats? Are they alone much of the time? How do they adjust to that?

Buy several litter pans and use those, or buy one of the under the bed storage containers and you have two large litter pans that both the cats will feel comfortable using. But don't lose your temper over this of all things. You are asking these cats to reprogram years of instinct. Because they love you, they will try it your way, but it is imo asking to much for them to do all of this overnight!

I'm not angry at my cats- I have never raised my voice or hit them, as naturally doing so after the fact would be pointless. If its shortly after I try guiding them to the toilet, and giving them treats and cuddles there. I'm sure I could scoop a litterbox in the morning before work and at night when I come home, but as I said, toilet training them would be a wonderful alternative that I'm not ready to give up on after a week.
I feed them twice daily- before work and after. As I said, my schedule is inconsistent. I admit that on Thursdays and Tuesdays, they don't get a lot of time with me until late into the evening (after 9). Other days I have several hour breaks between jobs or classes, and my weekends are mostly free. They get plenty of interaction time with me- probably more so than someone who works a 8-6 job, but its an inconsitent schedule I don't want them refusing to use a litterbox if I haven't been able to clean it twice that day.
I haven't lost my temper at my cats in the slightest. I'm very, very frustrated about the bed thing, but I'm not in any way outing such anger on the cats, as I know using a toilet isn't their first instinct. I do, however, know that they could be trained to do so as many cats are. I'm not asking anything of them overnight- its been about a week and a half since we began the process, and up until now they've done beautifully. Perhaps my first post gave them impression that I've been yelling at my cats because of it- sorry if thats so, I posted right after discovering another bed wetting incident. Rest assured that they're being taught only with positive reinforcement.

Well you started out that you were "going to snap on poor London" so what were we to think? I am glad you are not losing your temper and you are using positive reinforcements for these cats. These cats have got to be confused- you are asking of them something they would have never dreamed to be asked of. Use human facilities instead of the dirt they are used to.

I assumed no one would expect I meant literally snap. My patience is being tested, but all cats will make it through.

I'm pleased to hear that! When you can't hear someones voice or see the look on their face it's very difficult to understand that they don't mean what they say?!.

And some people can snap.

I applaud your determination to train your cats in this method. I hope you succeed!
I also know first hand that some cats are "brighter" than others and catch on quicker. On the other hand some cats are so bright that they stubbornly refuse to cooperate becaue they think you're wrong.

I hope you'll continue to post on your progress with this training. I'm very interested in how it turns out for you.

Best of luck!

My bengal is the smart boy...I think he finds the whole toilet training thing some sort of game I'm playing. London is my little black cat, he's very much a mama's boy (If you throw a toy, he doesn't go get it....he looks at it and cries and then buries his head on your arm.) so I think he feels like he's pouting about it right now. I hope he comes around, I'll keep it updated!

Alright, one full day down without any accidents! I flipped the matttress up on the side so he can't get on it....I half expected him to just find another incorrect place to go, but no, the toilet was fine I guess! We'll see if it keeps up.