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Cat in vet overnight two hours after purchase - Page 3  

post #61 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberKitten
I was not lecturing - just staing a fact - and I have raised cats all my life!!! Bottlefed many a baby. Showed our Siamese. I am not currently a breeder but I have more yrs experience than you have years to your chronological age Wellington (assuming you are 18, )so pls try to be kind, I am. And one not need be a breeder to know as much as I do about cats - we have been caring for kitties in my family for generations. It's not necly in the genes but I do know the proper age for kittens to be adopted and no reputable breeder would adopt a baby at less than 12 weeks. I am sorry if you do it but we will have to disagree. When I was your age, I have to admit I thought I knew it all too - but the older I get, the more I realize I do not know. I guess it's part of the fun of being your age - ahh, to be there again!! Enjoy it!!
Funny. I don't think I know everything, it would be absolutely impossible to do so!

And I am 15 and I have been breeding cats for six years.

Never accuse me again of thinking I know it all. What kind of stuck up attitude would that be?



*this post had been edited because of a mods complaint*
post #62 of 74
Thread Starter 
She is doing better these past two days, her coat seems shinier and she is crying a lot less. The vet seems to think she is in reality about six weeks old if that. She should not have been separated from her mother from such a young age, I really would have waited for her to get older. She sleeps on laptop top at night (I have set it up on the bedside table with a blanket) as she seems to like the warmth and vibration. She actually had some water from her water bowl this morning (this is quite a feat for her believe me) and she seems to like babyfood so I have not had to force feed her anymore.

I am so grateful to my other kitten Rocket as she seems to be learning things from him like eating and drinking from the bowl.

I am still really angry at the breeder and I still plan to report her. I am calling the GCCF on Monday for advice.

Thank you everyone for being supportive you don’t make me feel so alone.
post #63 of 74
One kitten of mine had such a bad reaction to one vaccine that I thought I would lose her. She would not eat & lay about as if in a daze. I held her a lot and kept in touch with the vet every day until she gradually started to eat & come back to herself. She is now a large & healthy cat, so I hope your outcome is also favorable.

Trixshar


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScamperFarms
If she had just had the kitten vaccinated sounds like it may have been a reaction to the vaccine. I would speak with this persons vet..any problems like this in the past? She is being good to work with it sounds, for offering to pay part of the vet bill
post #64 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats
well show me all the rules on this for each organisation in America & Canada, please.
Fanciers Breeder Referral List (FBRL)
http://www.breedlist.com/faq/young.html

As far as TICA and CFA they do not pin point an exact amount of days or months old as far as kitten leaving their home/mother. BUT CFA will not even allow kittens to be sold at their show unless they are at least 16 weeks old!

Sam, do not think people are attacking you, in the end we all love cats and want the best for them....no more no less.. I have been to many CFA Cat shows and the majority of the breeders do not let the kittens leave until they are at least 12 weeks old.

A lot of kittens get sick after vaccines (most are a live virus), because of that a lot of vets agree that it is in the best interest of the kitten to stay at the breeders through it's final immunization. There is a lot of stree related to a kitten going to it's new home.

Sam, just let me ask this. Why is it better for a kitten to leave earlier than 12 weeks? If we were to look at pros v. cons? I also know that you are talking about the rules in NZ and I would also be interested in reading all the rules on this for each organization in your area.....maybe we will all learn something.
post #65 of 74
I'm glad to hear she's doing better! Poor baby, seperated from mommy so early. You should definately report that breeder if she sold you a six week old kitten and told you she was 10 weeks! I'm glad she's taken to your other cat and learning things from him. Best of luck, I hope she continues to improve!!
post #66 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats
well show me all the rules on this for each organisation in America & Canada, please.

Cfa.org would be the rules for the Cat Fanciers, Tica.org is Tica

dog rules are AKC.org
post #67 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtigress
I'm glad to hear she's doing better! Poor baby, seperated from mommy so early. You should definately report that breeder if she sold you a six week old kitten and told you she was 10 weeks! I'm glad she's taken to your other cat and learning things from him. Best of luck, I hope she continues to improve!!

I'm actually worried about the way Rocket has been acting with her. He does this wrestling move on her where he pins her down and nips her neck. He never leaves a mark, but I'm still worried. So now I hold him and let him sniff her from or she watches him from a far.

Its quite tiring esp because I'm rather ill today and had to go to A&E beacuse my clinic was closed.
post #68 of 74
Awww, I'm sorry you're not feeling well, hope you feel better soon! Ordinarily, I would say that wrestling like that is normal and not to worry about it. Billy and Chay get pretty rough when they play, and it really looks like they're fighting even though they're just playing. But since your little girl is still little and weak, you should probably just use your judgement. Maybe ask the vet if its okay for her to play rough and be active or if it would be better if she were kept quiet. Also, you would probably want the two of them together only when you're around, so you can keep him from accidently hurting her by being too rough. If he's gentle most of the time though, I can't imagine that having a little company would hurt her, especially if he helps take care of her. Best of luck!
post #69 of 74
I concur with Sandigress- just keep an eye on her (God help me, every time I write that phrase I am brought back to my grade four textbook that used the expression "keep an eye on my purse" by showing a hand bag with the picture of an eye on it, lol). I hope she feels better soon!!!

Btw, thx for the interesting discussion on the age issue - and Wellington (Sam is it?), no one was picking on you. I was joking about your age - I fear it is more difficult to do that online and as someone who takes too much to heart, I know how you feel. Please try to understand where we are coming from and I will try to recall what it was like for me at your age. You need not sound so angry. No one here - well I can only speak for myself at any rate - is questioning your cat breeding abilities. It's just that here in North America, it is the norm to adopt kittens when they are 12 weeks or even older. The older the better was my grandmother's rule and we as a family bred Siamese for generations - I myself have many years under my belt. If you had read my post closely, you would have noted I said I had more experience than your age which when i thought you were 18 means 18 years plus. So, no, I am not a novice by any means and there is probably not much I have NOT seen when it comes to cats and kittens and bottle babies. I am not critical of you so I would ask you not be critical of others. We are all here to help each other and for the betterment of cats and kittens and their servants everywhere. You seem to have read into my message something that was not there - I work with many young people, from my patients to young Residents in their 20's and it is my occupational hazard to give advice, I also like receiving it and my point was I am sure you will feel that way when you get to be my age.

I was curious about your assertions re the 10 week norm in New Zealand so asked my friend I previously mentioned from Dunedin. She breeds Siamese (sorry Gaye, NOT the Appleheads!) and she referred me to several web sites in NZ and every one of them cited 12 weeks. For example, at http://www.jaymlyncats.com/jaymlyndols/about.html , they stated "All kittens bred at Jaymlyndols are registered with the New Zealand Cat Fancy and when they leave us for their new homes at about 12 weeks of age they will have received the very best in love, attention and socialization in preparation for the life ahead of them." Others cited 12-13 weeks but these were all purebred cats registered with Cat Fancy(NZ) - similar to the organization I am familiar with. Cat Fancy itself though cannot regulate but can make recommendations and its bare minimum is 10 weeks in your country so on that score, you are correct. Still, you might want to check the same references I did and ask them their opinions.Why do they utilize the 12 week minimum and others the 10 week - I really am curious as to why. I am including some sites here - all NZ breeders who use 12 weeks or more as their guide. Even the Persian breeders would only selltheir kittens at 12 weeks. You might want to ask them if they are influenced by North American trends and medical and feline research or if this is a growing tendancy in NZ.

http://homepages.tig.com.au/%7Ecoslinka/kittens.html
http://home.iprimus.com.au/rara/kittens.html
http://www.kaotikatz.com/Kittens%20Frameset.htm
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/gaj...blekittens.htm

Please do not take this the wrong way. I am just trying to be helpful!! To me, this is not an argument but simply a discussion on why vets and cat organizations here recommend that kittens stay with their mama until they are at least 12 weeks. The article I posted earlier is not my opinion but that of Cat Fancy in the US. It is the same in Canada. I honestly believe we all learn something new all the time - I feel if I do not learn something new each day, it has been a day I have wasted!! Do you have a good network of breeders and cat show people you can work with there? I have found the breeders I meet at cat shows to be just wonderful about sharing ideas and their own experiences. It is sort of like professional development, It is also a great way to find other cats to add to your own cattery and program. If you like, I can give you my friend's number - she is at the Medical School in Dundein and likes to mentor others and find out what others are doing and how they might help her. I must confess tho she is much more opinionate than I. She thinks I am too diplomatic, lol

When I was a teenager myself, I was fortunate in that my grandmother ensured I keep my kittens until they were 12 weeks and older if they were orphans (a one time situation when I rescued some babies!). She insisted bottle babies needed more time. I happily agreed since I hated to part with them!!!!

I often see newspaper ads here advertising 10 week old kittens and I cringe!! But then newspaper ads are somewhat notorius here - most reputable breeders in my neck of the woods do not need to advertise in that way since they tend to have more than enough queries for kittens well before the babies are born. But my network is the show circuit and after 40 or so years of this, this has stood the test of time. There are many studies which might be helful to you as well

http://cats.about.com/od/kittencare/f/timemomcat.htm
http://www.penmarric.ns.ca/Pedigree/.../Adoption.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~sarsenstone/brdcosts.html (this is also a wonderful site for its explanation of why breeding is not a for profit biz but I know I don't have to convince any of you here that, lol. This past year, I spent mre money on my Sphynx just for their shows!!!)


http://www.j-tull.com/musicians/iana...n/kittens.html

http://www.onlinebangalore.com/life/pets/kitten.html
HOW OLD SHOULD THE KITTEN BE TO BRING HOME?
The kitten that you bring home should be ideally 12 weeks old. By doing so, you ensure that the kitten has developed excellent litter box habits, is fully physically and psychologically weaned and has been vaccinated twice. When the kitten is given the first vaccination, at about 7-9 weeks old, this vaccine completely knocks out all the antibodies and protection left from the kitten's mother, and until the kitten receives his second vaccination, he is somewhat more vulnerable to contracting an illness. The second vaccination, given normally at about 12 weeks, is the one to which the kitten's own immune system actually mounts a strong defense, and the kitten is then protected for travel. Usually, the new owner provides the third vaccination at about 16 weeks of age.

I hope these help in explaining the 12 week norm. It does appear that most breeders of pedigreed cats throughout the world are following it and more conusmers will be looking for that in a breeder. (Not to suggest that is a reason for doing it but it certainly does help in marketing if your cattery is especially small). Do you have a web site? I'd love to read about your cats and their pedigree - I like geneology of all types, feline, human - makes life interesting I think! Good luck with your cats!! (and please - don't read into my attempts at helpfulness anything but that. I get paid to help people and so I tend to just be that way by nature - a natural nurturer my office manager says, lol


post #70 of 74
Quote:
Fanciers Breeder Referral List (FBRL)
http://www.breedlist.com/faq/young.html
Hi there,

Thanks for that link. It's nothing official so I wont read too much into it.


Quote:
As far as TICA and CFA they do not pin point an exact amount of days or months old as far as kitten leaving their home/mother. BUT CFA will not even allow kittens to be sold at their show unless they are at least 16 weeks old!
I really do like the CFA [don't so much stand by TICA] but CFA knows where they are doing and we here in the NZCF look up to them so that's good. I don't believe in selling cats in shows full stop, so we wont get into that.

Quote:
Sam, do not think people are attacking you, in the end we all love cats and want the best for them....no more no less.. I have been to many CFA Cat shows and the majority of the breeders do not let the kittens leave until they are at least 12 weeks old.
I did feel attacked by Cyberkitten but that's fine, I've been attacked in the past by her so I'll live with it. I do have a place to state my opinion too though.
Quote:

A lot of kittens get sick after vaccines (most are a live virus), because of that a lot of vets agree that it is in the best interest of the kitten to stay at the breeders through it's final immunization. There is a lot of stree related to a kitten going to it's new home.
Well it's different for us here in NZ they only get two vaccinations in their life and the first is at 9-10 weeks and the second is two weeks later so if we get our first vaccinations done when they are ten weeks old we definitly let them stay a week until we know they are OK.

Quote:
Sam, just let me ask this. Why is it better for a kitten to leave earlier than 12 weeks? If we were to look at pros v. cons? I also know that you are talking about the rules in NZ and I would also be interested in reading all the rules on this for each organization in your area.....maybe we will all learn something.
Well since most breeders here in NZ take the mothers away from their kittens at eight weeks old, ten week is fine. We aren't going to keep them around forever. What is two weeks going to do? If we keep them for an extra two weeks we then have to pay for their second and final vaccination which is the new owners responsibility.

Thanks for your friendly post!
post #71 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScamperFarms
Cfa.org would be the rules for the Cat Fanciers, Tica.org is Tica

dog rules are AKC.org
I had a look at both CFA & TICA but couldn't find anything, Luvmysphynx pointed out to me that Cfa & Tica don't have an age but if you could pinpoint these pages for me I would be most interested. Not interested in the dog side of things, however. Thanks!
post #72 of 74
Hi there again cyberkitten,

yup 10 weeks is our minimum age. that's what I'm trying to get across, of course there are breeders that will keep their kittens longer. Most of these are the ones that get their kittens desexed first.

That's funny you mention Cat Fancy I assume you are referring to Catz Inc the rebel cat fancy set up people who couldn't get their own way in our fancy, I don't really care what their rules are.

Out of the links you provide to me, some of them are not even from my country! or registered with my organisation. Of course you are going to find breeders that sell their kittens for more then ten weeks, I could spend hours digging through thousands of US breeding sites finding people that sell their kittens at less then 12 weeks, but for me it doesn't really bring a sort of satisifacation that's cool though!

Sam
post #73 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats
I had a look at both CFA & TICA but couldn't find anything, Luvmysphynx pointed out to me that Cfa & Tica don't have an age but if you could pinpoint these pages for me I would be most interested. Not interested in the dog side of things, however. Thanks!
I will have to look somewhere i saw it on the site. It may not be a rule. but everyone pretty much follows that standard of 12weeks here. but our vaccines are set up diffrent too. as well as other things. i zonked right now but i will try to dig it up laters. Tica is not my org but i will look on theirs as well
post #74 of 74
I think it is safe to say that different breeders' organization may have different standards and codes of ethics for their members. I also think it is safe to say that there are certain breeds that may mature faster than others.

Since we haven't been able to keep the feelings in this thread from running warm to hot, I am closing it. If anyone has any further questions or comments, please feel free to PM me with them.

~gf~
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