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post #121 of 145
The only women I've met in life who are supposedly "okay" with porn have been pushed, and pushed, and pushed... and pushed to think that it's acceptable until they're so exhausted that they give up or try to rationalize to themselves why it's okay, so that it doesn't drive them nuts anymore. When some are presented with any sober thinking that's opposite of the weak arguments drilled into their minds by a past friend/boyfriend/spouse, it's often a rude awakening that comes crashing down on them, especially when those points are made by a man. If there was anything supposedly "good" about porn, the bad outweighs it by such disgustingly infinite proportions that it cannot be equally compared to any other problem.
post #122 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespacat
First, this is only one AMERICAN interpretation (there are many other countries out there with differing laws), not to mention you are bringing the term obscenity into this conversation and are attaching legal implications only to this matter, and that is NOT what I was asking for. In my original post, I asked for people's individual perspectives, not for some impersonal legal definitions. I work with lawyers on a daily basis, and that's the last thing I am interested in hearing.
Gee, I'm sorry I missed that ground rule.

I don't supposed it has ever occurred to you that perhaps there are people out there who truly and honestly don't feel the same as you? Why ask for opinions if we're all wrong and degenerates? It has nothing to do with trying to justify something we know is wrong. That is YOUR interpretation, not ours.

I also find it interesting that in most other matters, feminists in general want to keep the government OUT of their personal business and bedrooms, but with this it should be outlawed.

This entire thread is fast becoming (or has already become) pointless. I see no reason to continue being villified for anything that happens legally within my own home and bedroom.
post #123 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirtle
Of course you have a right to your opinion. But, I take this as you saying that those of us who view occasional porn with our S/O's are commiting some sort of terrible immoral act and I have a problem with that...

I think that some sort of clarification needs to be made in this thread. Are you talking only about people who turn into porn addicts and sneak behind their partners back to watch it and chose to use porn as a tool that allows them to "get off" (as someone described it) by themselves? Because if so, then I would absolutely have a problem with my s/o doing that because it is dishonest and sneaky.
Or are you lumping everyone together as a whole and saying that every person who views porn is degrading themselves and commiting immoral acts and cheating, even those that are in stable, monogamous relationships who only view porn together on occasion to bring spice into their relationship or to use is as an educational tool???

If you view pornography as cheating, isn't it only cheating if you are dishonest about it? If you engage in it together is that really cheating? That's why I think we need some sort of clarification. Otherwise I am willing to argue until pig's fly that I am an honest person in a relationship with someone who I trust completely who does not and will not cheat on me. We do not perform immoral acts or acts that degrade ourselves or anyone else in any way. We watch the occasional porno for fun and it does not hurt anyone.
You see, that's the point, I don't view as something that adds "spice". I see it as a substitute for something missing or lacking in the relationship, even if it is a shared "resource". Even a shared resource, while it may suit one persons needs, it may leave the other feeling resentful and unfullfilled. If you're looking for something to educate both of you, I don't see how people involved in a meaningless act can help a couple who are seeking intimacy. There are many other, and likely, far more effective ways to educate yourself and your partner about sex.

Heidi was correct when she said that pornography has been around for a very long time, and I would agree with her to some extent. However, women being degraded (I won't even touch on illegal pornography as it's not the focus here) and promoting that for public consumption on a worldwide basis via internet, is a relatively new phenomenon, and the supply creates demand that we have never seen before this time in history.

Back to your point of porn being an educational tool, pornography is not something I would ever consider as educational. In fact, I'm in tune with my body enough to know exactly what my sexual needs are, and have never required someone other than myself define what I require on a sexual level. And hey, I am no prude, either. I think that adding certain erotic elements to the bedroom can be done, but it can be done without adding other people (whether real or imagery) to the mix. If you just go with what you FEEL, you won't need a user manual. And that is what sex is to me, it is about feeling, and the bond that encompasses that feeling.
post #124 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
Gee, I'm sorry I missed that ground rule.

I don't supposed it has ever occurred to you that perhaps there are people out there who truly and honestly don't feel the same as you? Why ask for opinions if we're all wrong and degenerates? It has nothing to do with trying to justify something we know is wrong. That is YOUR interpretation, not ours.

I also find it interesting that in most other matters, feminists in general want to keep the government OUT of their personal business and bedrooms, but with this it should be outlawed.

This entire thread is fast becoming (or has already become) pointless. I see no reason to continue being villified for anything that happens legally within my own home and bedroom.
What's with the sarcasm? Can I not ask that the thread reflect the original content, when others have asked me to do the same? Again, you are welcome to provide your opinion as much as anyone else. But this isn't about who has the best stats on porn. Besides, I don't live in the US, and am not that interested in American law with respect to pornography. Nothing wrong with that.

This is one issue many feminists have differing views on, which I respect. I guess I am in the more "extreme" of the two camps.

Then why bother posting to the thread going if you see it as pointless? We can agree to disagree here. In fact, you were the one who brought up in your last post that you wanted to hear more from those in the anti-porn camp, thus reviving the thread for me.
post #125 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespacat
You see, that's the point, I don't view as something that adds "spice". I see it as a substitute for something missing or lacking in the relationship, even if it is a shared "resource". Even a shared resource, while it may suit one persons needs, it may leave the other feeling resentful and unfullfilled. If you're looking for something to educate both of you, I don't see how people involved in a meaningless act can help a couple who are seeking intimacy. There are many other, and likely, far more effective ways to educate yourself and your partner about sex.

Heidi was correct when she said that pornography has been around for a very long time, and I would agree with her to some extent. However, women being degraded (I won't even touch on illegal pornography as it's not the focus here) and promoting that for public consumption on a worldwide basis via internet, is a relatively new phenomenon, and the supply creates demand that we have never seen before this time in history.

Back to your point of porn being an educational tool, pornography is not something I would ever consider as educational. In fact, I'm in tune with my body enough to know exactly what my sexual needs are, and have never required someone other than myself define what I require on a sexual level. And hey, I am no prude, either. I think that adding certain erotic elements to the bedroom can be done, but it can be done without adding other people (whether real or imagery) to the mix. If you just go with what you FEEL, you won't need a user manual. And that is what sex is to me, it is about feeling, and the bond that encompasses that feeling.
So I guess in a round about way the answer to my question is yes, all people who view porn for any reason are commiting immoral acts and adding to the degredation of society because you don't believe it can be educational or add spice. It is not always used a substitute for something that is missing, in some cases I am sure it is, but in all cases it is not. And it may be possible, and be open minded just for a moment, that one person enjoys it just as much as the other and neither feels resentful or inadequate. It is just something to have fun with.

Oh and Ryan, just for the record. I have never been pushed into viewing porn or allowing my fiance to go out with the guys ocassionally to a strip club. I have always been very open minded about stuff and I don't regret for a second that I am that way.

I don't really see a point to this thread anymore as it seems we keep going in circles and it keeps being pointed out time and time again that those of us who might engage in the most casual amount of porn are behaving immorally. I don't really understand why the question was asked in the beginning if no one even tried to understand our point of view just once, all that happened is we were condemned for our actions. I am not angry or upset, I guess that's just the way it is. I also wonder what makes people feel that they can decide what others should or shouldn't do. What's good for one person isn't necessarily good for another. So if you don't like something, just don't do it. But don't think negatively of the people who do do it just because you choose not to.
post #126 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespacat
Then why bother posting to the thread going if you see it as pointless? We can agree to disagree here. In fact, you were the one who brought up in your last post that you wanted to hear more from those in the anti-porn camp, thus reviving the thread for me.
What I was interested in was the question that was asked, which is where the line is with regard to sex in other movies and media, and how people feel about the portrayal of sex in other entertainment.
post #127 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydroaxe
The only women I've met in life who are supposedly "okay" with porn have been pushed, and pushed, and pushed... and pushed to think that it's acceptable until they're so exhausted that they give up or try to rationalize to themselves why it's okay, so that it doesn't drive them nuts anymore. When some are presented with any sober thinking that's opposite of the weak arguments drilled into their minds by a past friend/boyfriend/spouse, it's often a rude awakening that comes crashing down on them, especially when those points are made by a man. If there was anything supposedly "good" about porn, the bad outweighs it by such disgustingly infinite proportions that it cannot be equally compared to any other problem.
They sound like women with relatively little backbone.
I tell you that this isn't the case at all times (which you can see evidence of right here on TCS in this very thread)...

In my own relationship in fact, it was my idea to walk down to the XXX store the last time...

On that note, a funny story for you all: On Main St. in Vancouver at a particular intersection there is a "video store" called FAMILY VIDEO .
Below that, the windows are (by law) blacked out and it reads
"XXX movie rentals only"
However, there are many similiar examples abound in Vancouver (I think largely due to the language barrier...
Another is the "Golden Shower" restaurant..
post #128 of 145
I agree that this thread seems to just be going in circles, around and around and around. Those who do not see the point of view that all porn is bad are pretty much being called deviants. Which is not always correct. And personally i find it slightly offensive, IMO.
post #129 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
They sound like women with relatively little backbone.
I tell you that this isn't the case at all times (which you can see evidence of right here on TCS in this very thread)...

In my own relationship in fact, it was my idea to walk down to the XXX store the last time...
Agreed.

Ryan, no one has ever "talked me into" porn.
And I really dont see a problem with anyone watching porn in the privacy of their own home with or without a partner.
post #130 of 145
Thread Starter 
I'm tired of being taken out of context to suit peoples positions. I have nothing more to say on the matter.
post #131 of 145
I was not going to reply to this thread - this is not an issue I think about alot. I never read or watch pornography (unless you count some steamy novel). However, I do know some male colleagues who do watch the occasional video and they are great guys - I think it might be a point of passage or something with guys. They have to check it out.

Now if a guy is obsessed with it and watches it alot, I would wonder about him. And I certainly do not approve of violent pornography of any kind! That type I do believe has a direct correlation wit violence against women.
post #132 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
What I was interested in was the question that was asked, which is where the line is with regard to sex in other movies and media, and how people feel about the portrayal of sex in other entertainment.

Yeah, I was hoping someone would answer my question as well, because then maybe this thread might have some sort of direction instead of going in circles. I really am interested in what people think about this.
post #133 of 145
If people should'nt be judged by where they're from, what they look like, or other trivial factors, why then should they be judged by what turns them on sexually? (as long as it's not kiddie porn, beastiality, etc). I say let the porn watchers watch their porn. If you don't like it----that's cool. It's your business. If you do like it, that's your business. Some folks have different "turn ons" than others.
post #134 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespacat
I'm tired of being taken out of context to suit peoples positions. I have nothing more to say on the matter.
I haven't seen anyone take your words out of context, I've only seen your words taken personally. And that is to be expected, given the views you've expressed. I mean, you've stated that you think porn isn't used to add spice, but to replace something missing from the relationship, that you think porn usage is a strong indicator that partners will cheat and/or that porn viewing is cheating even if both partners know about it and agree, etc. You may have intended this to be taken as general views, but many of the responders watch porn now and then. So, we are taking home the message that we are all in unfullfilled relationships sexually or otherwise (we use porn to replace something missing) and that our relationships are doomed (we are cheating, or our partners most likely will cheat). I'm not surprised at the irritation being expressed in some posts.
post #135 of 145
i have no strong opinion about pornography..if people didnt watch it they would still be doing gross things anyway. there are some things we just cant control. i personally find some funny..my ex boyfriend, yea boyfriend, bought this like cheap 5 dollar porn thing, and all the story lines were funny. but yea like reeeeeeally weird gross stuff i just stay away from, snuff, whatever. but as long as they are watching it in their private homes its not affecting me. i guess if i caught my kid watching it i would freak, lol. but for like actual adults. no problem here! lol
post #136 of 145
Oh No! Not this thread!



This one needs to sink back down to the depths of lost threads in the forum!
post #137 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
I may be unpopular with this opinion, but as long as it's not some of the truly disgusting stuff (animals, snuff, kiddie-porn), I really don't care. As long as he knows that I cannot and will not ever look like that...whatever. There is a lot of it that I personally find rather gross, but a Playboy or even Penthouse aren't that bad. Hey, at least Playboy has good articles.

ditto

my hubby reads FHM and even though he doesn't watch real porn, we sometimes watch those corny playboy MA one's they have on telly, i don't feel like he loves me any less and i never get concerned about my body or jelous of the women, i love the way i look and so does my husband.

movies like these add something to a relationship and i don't have a problem with it...it can teach you what your hubby likes too

the playboy one's are so corny that mostly they are just funny, playboy magazines do have excellent articles but my husband doesn't buy them often...he prefers car mags

i think it's each to their own and if you are comfortable with how you are and your body then what these women do shouldn't matter, it's their lives.

plus, i think if both people in the relationship enjoy stuff like videos or anthing else for that matter then that's their business
post #138 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandybear
ditto

my hubby reads FHM and even though he doesn't watch real porn, we sometimes watch those corny playboy MA one's they have on telly, i don't feel like he loves me any less and i never get concerned about my body or jelous of the women, i love the way i look and so does my husband.

movies like these add something to a relationship and i don't have a problem with it...it can teach you what your hubby likes too

the playboy one's are so corny that mostly they are just funny, playboy magazines do have excellent articles but my husband doesn't buy them often...he prefers car mags

i think it's each to their own and if you are comfortable with how you are and your body then what these women do shouldn't matter, it's their lives.

plus, i think if both people in the relationship enjoy stuff like videos or anthing else for that matter then that's their business
"The decline and fall of the American Empire"
post #139 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
"The decline and fall of the American Empire"
Too bad she's in Australia.
post #140 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
Too bad she's in Australia.
post #141 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
"The decline and fall of the American Empire"

um, sorry to be blonde but...i don't get it??
post #142 of 145
I think it was a comment on your lifestyle (about it being the decline and fall of the AMERICAN empire). Ie, you are contributing to it.

That is how I took it..

That is where the funny Aus comment came in.
post #143 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
I think it was a comment on your lifestyle (about it being the decline and fall of the AMERICAN empire). Ie, you are contributing to it.

That is how I took it..

That is where the funny Aus comment came in.


ohh, now i get it! lol

post #144 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespacat
That's far too much information, even for IMO, yet another example of women subordinating themselves to men while pushing those of us back who make seemingly vain attempts to be taken seriously in seeking equality.

Of course she made "GOOD" money. She was being paid to allow herself be objectified for men's sexual purposes! Pornography is a HUGE money making industry. And she gets rewarded by being paid more than a woman who works her fingers to the bone doing something legitamite that would keep her dignity intact.

she wasn't having sex anyway and who knows, she might enjoy that stuff, she wouldn't be doing it if she didn't.
post #145 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrissyKitty
Oh yeah and I hate to disagree with you, but men and women are not equal. Men and women are different. If a woman really wants to go out and do what would be considered a "man's job" that's fine, more power to her. But I *personally* am more than happy to let men collect my garbage every Monday morning and do other "hard labor jobs". Call me lazy, but that is not a job I would want. Of course that's just my opinion.

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