Am I being unreasonable?

katachtig · Aug 11, 2005

Originally Posted by evnshawn

My recommendation? Call her and tell her you were wrong to bring personal issues into it; the real issue is the money, which is business only, and the problem is that they have missed three months of payments. (Remember that before this they were making good faith efforts to pay you back. Lots of people loan money to friends that they never get back at all.) Then negotiate a new payment schedule (continuing payments, lump sum, whatever), and draw up a contract detailing how the remainder of the amount will be paid back. Have all involved parties sign.

This is my advice also - make it into a business transaction again with both parties agreeing to complete it as such.

As for the friendship part, I'm going to give you a little background so you can understand where my advice is coming from. I invested (equal to about year's salary) in my sister and her husband's business which was mismanaged into bankruptcy. They stopped speaking to me when everything got worse and I actually found out that the business was taken over by someone else through my mother. I also heard that they blamed me for the business failing because I wouldn't put my house and retirement up for collateral for their business (by the way, they did not put their own house up for collateral). They have total contempt for me and haven't spoken to me in two years.

My advice would be rather cruel. Write-off the friendship for now. Maybe later when they've grown up, you can re-establish it.

It isn't going to be easy no matter what you do. Either forgive the loan or forget the friendship. And even if you do forgive the loan, the friendship may not survive.

Good luck.

purity · Aug 11, 2005

Originally Posted by evnshawn

No, of course you're not being a "complete cow," but I do think you are being a little unreasonable.

They definitely owe you the money, but it's unfair of you to tie up the money (business) with the whole husband/affair/nastiness thing (personal). One doesn't have anything to do with the other. Of course they need to pay you back, but why should they pay you back faster because they are having major personal problems? From their perspective, that might not make a lot of sense.

But it wasn't a business loan, it was a loan from one friend to another, therefore the husbands behaviour is very much a part of it. I wasn't investing in their business, I was helping out a friend in need. If I was a bank manager, or had a stake in his business then I would agree that the two things are seperate.

My recommendation? Call her and tell her you were wrong to bring personal issues into it; the real issue is the money, which is business only, and the problem is that they have missed three months of payments. (Remember that before this they were making good faith efforts to pay you back. Lots of people loan money to friends that they never get back at all.) Then negotiate a new payment schedule (continuing payments, lump sum, whatever), and draw up a contract detailing how the remainder of the amount will be paid back. Have all involved parties sign. I know you expected to be paid back in a lump sum right after you loaned them the money, but to be blunt, if you didn't tell them that, how were they supposed to know? It's not fair to be miffed at them because they didn't guess what you wanted.

It also wasn't fair of them to just assume that I would be ok with the loan being repaid over 5 years without checking with me first!

Good luck. I've learned the hard way that loaning money to friends/family can turn bad. My husband and I now have a policy that we don't loan money we can't afford to lose, and when we loan it, we "write it off" as a gift. If we get paid back, great; if not, we'll live. Some things are more important than money.

You can be sure I won't be lending anything to anybody in future.

katspixiedust · Aug 11, 2005

Originally Posted by katachtig

It isn't going to be easy no matter what you do. Either forgive the loan or forget the friendship. And even if you do forgive the loan, the friendship may not survive.

I think this is so right on. It doesn't sound to me that this is a stable friendship anymore as it is. I would agree that perhaps the terms and repayment should have been discussed before the loan was given, but at the same time if someone EVER lent me (which I would NEVER ask them too, asking friends for such a huge amount is only asking for things to be ruined in the long run as money is such a powerful motivator) that much I would never assume that it was ok to pay them back over a few years time! That's not a few hundred pounds, it's a few thousand and it sounds to me that they've been taking advantage of your friendship by taking so long to pay it. Not to mention the fact that he signed something saying that if it was not fully paid over a year interest could be charged. They should be counting their lucky stars that you HAVEN'T begun charging interest. If everything has gone off as you say it has I don't see any reason as to why they should be getting angry or upset with you! It was given as a loan, with a signed document, not a "gift." I think you should call your friend, let her know that while you value her friendship you need to set up some very distinct rules for repayment. I'm not sure if you need to ask for it all in a lump sum, but let her know that if she misses anymore payments you WILL be contacting a lawyer. It's only fair to you.

purr · Aug 11, 2005

She is not a very good friend at all. I wouldn't do what she's doing to anyone I cared about. In fact, if I had to borrow money (which I loathe and never would unless I had no choice) then I would make it my top priority to pay that person back. The fact that she didn't tell you from the beginning that they would have to pay you over FIVE YEARS is indicative of their intentions to take advantage of you.

The fact that she went back to a man who she is obviously not in love with, has proven his self to be an immature liar, AND tried to hurt YOU and make you look bad so he could get in-between the two of you, would tick me off more than the money.

You should ask yourself if her friendship is really worth it. If not, take her to court! If it is, then don't ask her to pay it back all at once because friends aren't banks.

The only thing that's going to keep her as a friend is to let the loan go. Tell her she doesn't have to pay you back. Otherwise, you're not going to be able to make her pay because she obviously doesn't care enough about you to do so.

talon · Aug 11, 2005

I disagree, I don't think the only reason is the affair/nasty/husband thing - fi they haven't paid in 3 months - that is a reason right there to demand payment.

I didn't realize you guys in the UK had Judge Judy - I love her!

evnshawn · Aug 11, 2005

Originally Posted by Purity

But it wasn't a business loan, it was a loan from one friend to another, therefore the husbands behaviour is very much a part of it. I wasn't investing in their business, I was helping out a friend in need. If I was a bank manager, or had a stake in his business then I would agree that the two things are seperate.

I don't think I explained that very well. What I meant was that the two aren't directly connected. I understand your point, but it's a lot easier to keep money separate from friendship. Things get so difficult when they become intertwined. Plus, I assume you mostly loaned the money because of your friend, not her husband. Remember that she doesn't have direct control over his behavior.

It also wasn't fair of them to just assume that I would be ok with the loan being repaid over 5 years without checking with me first!

This is true; mistakes were made on both sides. So you sort of cancelled each other's "wrong" out, right?

They didn't ask what you expected, and you didn't make your expectations known.

You can be sure I won't be lending anything to anybody in future.

Yeah, loaning money to friends/family has the potential to end badly. I hope this all works out for you and that you can somehow get your money AND keep your friendship.

purity · Aug 11, 2005

I have calmed down a tad since this morning, and your replies have helped a great deal, thanks to all of you!

I think I've made my point as far as how unhappy I am with this to my friend, and am thinking about sending an email saying that new terms would be ok so long as I have it in writing that it will be repaid. I'm still not happy about it, but there's only so much guilt I can live with.

As Purr said, it's not even so much the money itself, it's the way her husband has treated me that's annoyed me so much. I'm not expecting them to be forever grateful to me, but a little bit of respect wouldn't go amiss!

My friend has driven me batty over this, but she is my oldest friend and I don't want to lose that (even if at the moment I don't want to be around her, when I've calmed down completely that may change!).

I'm going to drink some cammomile tea and think it over!

jennyr · Aug 11, 2005

This is somewhere where you have to let your head rule your heart. What happens if hteir relationship breaks up? It sounds unstable. If they go into bankruptcy? You won't get anything back. If the money is important to you (and that amount would be to me!) you must ask for it all back within a short period of time - months rather than years. The friendship does not sound to me as if it is a good one - it seems rather one sided and exploitative. Just because of a family connection (and it is a sad one) and the fact that you have known her a long time does not make her a good friend. Does she often put herself out for you?

And I'm sorry if I am wrong and you don't see it like that. But think about it.

boys mum · Aug 11, 2005

id got to the citizens advice,they can put you in touch with a decent solicitor,maybe just a letter from a leagal person will prompt them into paying u back.

rosiemac · Aug 11, 2005

Originally Posted by Talon

I didn't realize you guys in the UK had Judge Judy - I love her!

Tracey i'm on holiday at the moment and i have my lunch when Judge Judys on

That woman is so brilliant at the way she flames them down when they try and out smart her!

In a way she reminds me of me because i'm normally a step ahead of people as well!

tari · Aug 11, 2005

I don't think you're being at all unreasonable. I've glad you've calmed down and it looks like you'll be able to work out new terms with them, but they need to commit to paying you something each month and keep that commitment. Surely, even if things are tight, they can manage to come up with something to pay each month...even if it's only $25. If they can't it's probably just not a very high financial priority for them.

Several years ago (while we were dating but before we got married) my husband's best friend since childhood was in serious trouble and needed money. This guy was like a brother to my husband. My husband lent him the money, but then the friend got in to trouble and needed more money. This cycle went on for a while, with my husband borrowing money from credit cards and taking out loans to help his friend out. The total climbed to around $10,000 that his friend owed him. Then his friend suddenly left town. We haven't heard from this guy in over 12 years. We have no idea where he is, and we're just finishing paying off his loans now.

No matter how well you think you know a friend, you don't know what they're capable of. It's absolutely not wrong of you to hold your friend and her husband to your agreement.

yosemite · Aug 11, 2005

I think you should ask for the loan to be repaid on a set basis in a calm, controlled manner.

It may be that her husband is giving her a hard time about it because he now doesn't like you and probably doesn't want her to continue being friends with you. She is probably between a rock and a hard place - trying to appease her husband and make the marriage work and trying to work on your sympathies as a "friend" to make her life with her husband easier.

I personally would ask for repayment of the loan and let her know it isn't personal but that you have plans for the money and need it back. No need to apologize for wanting your own money back.

If the marriage works out - the friendship probably won't as long as he has that attitude toward you. If the marriage doesn't work out it's better to have your money back and if she is really a friend and the marriage doesn't work out she'll be your friend again. I think her husband is behind her giving you a guilt trip and she probably feels you are easier to deal with than her husband.

rockcat · Aug 11, 2005

You could just say you want to be on a regular schedule and request this
Originally Posted by evnshawn
negotiate a new payment schedule (continuing payments, lump sum, whatever), and draw up a contract detailing how the remainder of the amount will be paid back. Have all involved parties sign.

wellingtoncats · Aug 11, 2005

Oh Purity - how sad!

I have no advice for you but I hope you get your money back soon and then if it was me that friendship would be over!

katachtig · Aug 11, 2005

Originally Posted by Purity

As Purr said, it's not even so much the money itself, it's the way her husband has treated me that's annoyed me so much. I'm not expecting them to be forever grateful to me, but a little bit of respect wouldn't go amiss!

That is why your thread hit me hard. I could afford the money that went to my sister. The only reason she got the money was because of that relationship. To have that gesture ignored and to treat me in such a rotten way is what hurts. Money comes and goes.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide. I know it's really rough.

Am I being unreasonable?

katachtig

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purity

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katspixiedust

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purr

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talon

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evnshawn

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purity

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jennyr

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boys mum

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rosiemac

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wellingtoncats

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