TheCatSite.com › Forums › Cat Breeds, Breeding and Showing › Showing and Ethical Breeding › Question for Siamese breeders/Owners
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Question for Siamese breeders/Owners

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I am kind of curious, are purebred Siamese cats considered more intelligent than other breeds? I have never had a Siamese, but I think they are beautiful. I have just "heard" from owners and breeders (who are biased of course) that Siamese are above average intelligence when it comes to cats.

Has anyone owned or bred a different breed before adding a Siamese to the family? Did you notice a difference in intelligence?
post #2 of 27
Of course I'm biased, but I think all my Siamese were slightly more 'with it' than my moggies or even my NFC
post #3 of 27
Thread Starter 
I have heard there are two types of siamese head types, apple head and something else, I forget...Is the breeding really all that different? In the show ring are there two different "types" of siamese shown in different classes?

I've got this recent interest in Siamese because I just love a cat that talks to me. Little Cleo just talks and talks and talks to me and we have these quite detailed conversations. I mean, she says something, I ask her a question and she waits for me to finish then she replies, etc. Our other 6 cats are not conversationalists : )
post #4 of 27
Wow, what a loaded question *grin*

In the way that most people think, there are actually three different types (referred to as body type) of Siamese; Classic, Traditional and Modern. To make it easier for me, I group Siamese cats into only two types; Show-Style and Old-Style.

Show-style cats are the modern Siamese. They are angular and wedge shaped. The CFA has a good body type description here:

http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/siamese.html

The Classic and Traditional types (I call these Old-Style) are eligible to show in only a few organizations. Sadly, CFA is not one of them. Those of us who breed the Old Style cats certainly WISH there were rings where both the Modern cats and the Old Style cats could show but not compete against each other ... *sigh* ... but it doesn't look that that is going to be happening any time soon (at least in CFA anyway).

~gf~
post #5 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks...any chance you could post pictures and give me an example of the three types side by side? It would be easier to see the differences that way. if you have the pictures handy of course, don't go digging just for me.

So does TICA have classes for the Old Style cats?
post #6 of 27
I'd podt but I have no more room in my space here - and I only have 2 pix so am at a loss to understand that but that's another issue (I assume others must be using images from other web sites tho as a sometime web designer, that qualifies as bandwidth stealing so I am loathe to do it (unless it is a site I own of course).

The best I can do is post this site:

http://home.earthlink.net/~sarsenstone/threetypes.html

I also don't dare say I think Siamese are more intelligent - I am not sure I can honestly respond to that anyway tho my kitty is exceedingly bright. But then so are some moggies. Siamese do like to be with people and they do like to talk to you!
post #7 of 27
Cristy Bird's site has some excellent examples of the different body types of Siamese cats even if I do not personally agree with her philosophy on certain things.

~gf~
post #8 of 27
I cant say if they are more intelligent. as i have never own one. and honestly the only two i have ever known were mean as snot. but i dont hold that against the whole breed. i hold it to their breeding and upbringing.

I sure wouldnt mind meeting one of Gayes babies i bet they are as sweet as can be.
post #9 of 27
I wouldnt say more intellegent just more dog like and responsive.. I have had two in my life one siamese and one snowshoe
post #10 of 27
My Nana owns a siamese and yes I think they are definitly more intelligent. Compared to our P's & E's anyway!
post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky
I wouldnt say more intellegent just more dog like and responsive.. I have had two in my life one siamese and one snowshoe
I think most Siamese cat owners, when asked, would say that dogs are more Siamese-like *snort*
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef
I think most Siamese cat owners, when asked, would say that dogs are more Siamese-like *snort*
that's a great way of putting it Gaye!!
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef
I think most Siamese cat owners, when asked, would say that dogs are more Siamese-like *snort*
Yup ... I stand corrected...lol... likely since one doesnt own me at the present
post #14 of 27
Hi Sarah,

Having bred and shown Siamese and Orientals for the past 16 years, and also living with moggies and having been around people with many different breeds, I personally feel Siamese and OSH are total "dorks". I don't find them any more or less intelligent than individuals of any other breeds (or non-breeds) with which I have lived/associated.

If you have ever watched what is supposed to be an "intelligent" cat sit and stare at a drop of water running down into the sink for 45 minutes, you would cease thinking it was particularly bright <VBG>

What Siamese ARE is that they are more monkey-like than other breeds. They use their feet in very tactile ways, and because of that we have to have child-proof locks on our cabinets even though we have no two-legged offspring of our own. As a breed (and this includes Orientals since they are merely Siamese in other colors), Siamese will teach their owners to throw toys for them rather than their owners teaching them to fetch.

Siamese are extremely active and very curious and consequently everything requires their "help" - including something as simple as if one goes to unscrew a lightbulb. LOL

As we also own a "classic" Siamese, I can tell you from observation that there is no difference in personality or intelligence between the so-called "types" of Siamese - just among the individual cats.

Our 17-year old DSH spay torbie van is every bit as, if not more, intelligent than any of the Siamese/OSH in our house, but the only thing I have ever noted from observation and living with these beasties is that it appears that the females are more intelligent than the males, but again, this is an individual thing since some of my boys actually have two neurons firing.

As far as the difference between Old Style and modern cats, I, too, would love to see the Old Style cats on the show bench, but that is not likely to happen anytime soon. TICA does not allow Old Style cats to show. Only two associations, both very tiny and with very limited physical show schedules, allow the Old Style cats to show as anything other than household pets. Those two are ICE (International Cat Enthusiants) based in the Pacific Northwest and UFO (United Feline Organization) based in Florida.

Barb Amalfi
post #15 of 27
As a cat lover and owner of various cats over the years, I must say that if you've ever had a Siamese you will always want another Siamese. They are special cats - they love human contact, are very sociable and friendly and I love the way they "talk" and hold conversations with us.

We have 2 at our house at the moment - our Bijou and our daughter's Mika. Bijou is lilac point and Mika is blue point. They are both the most gentle, loving, and sweet dispositioned animals we've ever had. I cannot tell you how many people have been converted to Siamese since meeting Bijou and Mika. Their first comment is usually "I always thought Siamese were nasty!".

I had a sealpoint years ago and I never stopped missing her. When the opportunity came up to get another cat, I desperately wanted a Siamese and my husband was very reluctant because of their "reputation". You can see from my signature that my husband is totally smitten with Bijou. Our daughter says she has never seen her dad so taken by a cat. Bijou loves my husband more than any other cat we've ever had.

They truly are curious. Bijou and Mika have to have their noses up close and personal whenever we are trying to do anything. They need to see and know what we are doing.

They bring us incredible joy and although I love all animals, and especially all cats, Siamese hold a special place in my heart.
post #16 of 27
is it true that siamese cats are nasty to children. I heard that they have a mood of their own. But they look so cute
post #17 of 27
Nope, no truth that that statement at all! At least 3 of my kittens are in homes where small children reside ... in fact, one of the boys from the last litter lives with a beautiful little 3 year-old girl named Morgan. Morgan and Ivan are constantly together according to Deb, Morgan and Ivan's mommy. I think that cats and kids go together ... they just fit.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailsoluv
If you have ever watched what is supposed to be an "intelligent" cat sit and stare at a drop of water running down into the sink for 45 minutes, you would cease thinking it was particularly bright <VBG>
But...but....

Obviously this kitty was studying the physics of the water droplets!
post #19 of 27
Siamese are extremely intelligent. There is NO truth that Siamese are mean. Trust me I have three. I got my seal point male 10 years ago when I was 10 . That would have made my youngest brother 3 at the time. He has never been mean to any of us. (With the occassional love nip.) Siamese do have different persionalities though. My male and my yougest female are very loving and very attached to me. My blue point if very withdrawn and unloving to anyone in our family. She is not mean she just dosent want our attention. It is like she is autistic, she wont make eye contact. She is a great mom and loves the other cats, but she does not have a human connection. I got her when she was 8 weeks old, so age has nothing to do with her personality. I got my male when he was 10 weeks and my other female at 16 weeks.
post #20 of 27
Siamese and children! My sealpoint whom I'd had for 10 yrs before our daughter was born (and whom EVERYBODY said I would have to give up because she would be jealous of our baby) was so loving and tolerant of our daughter that nobody could believe it. Jennifer pulled her ear and her tail and that cat never bit or scratched her once.

My Avon lady came over recently with her 6 yr. old daughter and our little Mika (bluepoint) was all over that child like white on rice. She wanted to play with her. When they were leaving the little girl asked if Mika could come to her house and play sometime.
post #21 of 27
I've actually heard that Meezers tend to be a bit... dumb... actually. As Molly is only a half breed, I have no idea if this is true, however, i have noticed and heard tell that cats with blue eyes tend to have vision problems, and this is certainly evident in Molly, as she has problems tracking toys as they move, unless they are doing so at a certain angle from her eye. She also misjudges distance at night.
post #22 of 27
My mother loved Siamese and she got our first Siamese, when I was just a child. He was the sweetest most loving cat we had ever had. He used to rotate sleeping with each of us kids nightly. I have never forgotten Chang, he made me fall in love with Siamese.

When I was a teenager, I got my own Siamese cat, paid for him with my own money, my beloved Snoopy who lived to be 20 years old. He passed away this past February. Right now, I have 2 Siamese, one old style, Shane and 1 modern style, SunLee, along with my Bengal, Simba. Shane loves his Mama, me, more than anything else in the world. SunLee is a sweet genteel little Princess. I love Siamese cats. There's nothing like having a wonderful Meezer in your life.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrissyKitty
I am kind of curious, are purebred Siamese cats considered more intelligent than other breeds? I have never had a Siamese, but I think they are beautiful. I have just "heard" from owners and breeders (who are biased of course) that Siamese are above average intelligence when it comes to cats.

Has anyone owned or bred a different breed before adding a Siamese to the family? Did you notice a difference in intelligence?
My TWO are VERY INTELLIGENT BUT my Tabbies were(Corkie) and are (Benji) even MORE intelligent!

Corkie did and Benji DOES know everything that goes on. Who is doing what, where and to whom and (unfortunately for me) BOTH were/are great escape artists!

Kotton (apple head) and Panther (new kind) are BOTH the most loving though! Panther loves to lie in my lap and be petted and while Kotton would complain if I tried to get her in my lap she WILL come and sit down beside me an purr and she IS there for me if I am sad!
post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by megmar6853
.......... There is NO truth that Siamese are mean.........
Well they ARE to other cats! Or at least they are VERY territorial! Kotton tried to get rid of Corkie from the time I adopted her (kotton) and now that Corkie has passed, Kotton is after poor Missy!

BUT your are right about being loving as to ME she(Kotton) is a true blue Sweetheart!
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailsoluv
Hi Sarah,
........................................... I, too, would love to see the Old Style cats on the show bench, but that is not likely to happen anytime soon. TICA does not allow Old Style cats to show. Only two associations, both very tiny and with very limited physical show schedules, allow the Old Style cats to show as anything other than household pets. Those two are ICE (International Cat Enthusiants) based in the Pacific Northwest and UFO (United Feline Organization) based in Florida.

Barb Amalfi
Barb that is just like the Standard Poodle! They keep trying to say they HAVE to be soliid as that is how they started out. BUT they are wrong as they USED to be Parti Color.

Guess those who make the rules for cat shows are just like those in the AKC - they want what THEY want and dont care about what is right!
post #26 of 27
Holly and Mika (both modern) have two very obviously distinct personalities, but both are very loving.

Mika is an "IN YOUR FACE", exhuberant clumsy goof that loves to sit on us. He's what I might call overly loving, especially when he's waking you up at 6am on a Saturday by kissing your face for an hour! He talks (loudly) when he has something important to say, and will carry on full conversations about it. He will tolerate anything we do to him, from cuddling him like a baby, clipping his nails, and all sorts of things, with little fuss.

Holly is very demure, petite, and graceful. She has a tiny chirping voice which is completely opposite Mika. But, she does talk a lot. She's still quite timid but she still insists on pettings although she doesn't like to be picked up. Doesn't like her nails clipped at all. I think that's all an act, because she's more of a hellion too... she actually showed Mika how fun it was to get up on the counter (he never did before she came), and while Mika was a perfect gentleman while we were gone when he was a lone kitty, now we routinely come home to something strewn all over the house. She's been a bad influence on him!

I would say they are both very intelligent, far more than any other cat I've had, Mika in particular. His antics have had us just about floored before. Hubby agrees, he's never seen a smarter cat (of course!!)
post #27 of 27
I understand what you are trying to say, but that is a much too simplistic take on what actually goes on in the cat fancy. The first of the truly modern-type cats came on the show bench in the mid-1950s - a cat named Fan-T-Cee's Tee Cee. He was SO extreme that he made today's show cats look shortheaded. However, if you had been privy to the written standard for the Siamese cats, as far back as 1902 it called for a cat with a "long, weasel-like head". This was the standard toward which Siamese breeders were breeding. When a cat who was finally born who met that goal, it is no surprise that the judges liked the type on the cat as did the Siamese breeders themselves. It is actually the breeders in most registries who control what is on the show bench. As a matter of fact, the reason there are so many registries in the cat fancy is that cat people disagree on how things are and different registries fulfill different needs for different people. Cat shows are a sport, no matter how you look at them. If enough people TRULY wanted the Old Style cats back on the show bench - and by this I mean SERIOUS Old Style breeders such as Gaye Flagg - not just those people who are breeding the old cats to fulfill a marketing niche - and those breeders were scattered around the various regions of the registries and showed their cats in the Miscellaneous or AOV classes and were committed to showing them - then they could probably be re-introduced onto the show bench in most of the registries except CFA, whose breeders rarely wish to acknowledge that their modern show cats are descended from the Old Style cats. Old Style cats, however, are defined by their pedigrees - NOT the fact that their type may appear to be old style. No major registries accept TCA (Traditional Cat Association) pedigrees, so those cats who are not currently registered with one of the accepted registries and are only registered in TCA may not be used to breed into an Old Style breeding program. By no means show TCA (Traditional Cat Association) be mistaken for TICA (The International Cat Association).

So, just as a very slight take on what would be required to get these cats back on the show bench, you can see that it is not impossible, but it is highly improbable.

Barb Amalfi
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Showing and Ethical Breeding
TheCatSite.com › Forums › Cat Breeds, Breeding and Showing › Showing and Ethical Breeding › Question for Siamese breeders/Owners