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Rescue groups and adoption fees.... - Page 2

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juniper
I wouldn't dream of paying more than $100 to purchase a pet, but I spent $850 on surgery for Meeko last month without a second thought.

In that case, improving fundraising efforts and creating a more pleasant work environment seems like a better solution than raising adoption fees.
But see....that is your choice...so you don't get a pet from the other shelter....but you can't expect a rescue group to change their fees simply because you believe them to be too high. Have you even asked them what is included in the fee or why their fee is different from the other shelter?? Perhaps they have more expenses or other programs that the other shelter does not....also, if we are talking about a full access shelter versus one that is a no kill...there may be funding provided from the state for the full access one to provide animal services that the no kill doesn't receive. Perhaps the full access one charges a "pull fee" to rescues? Seriously...you really are making some rather LARGE assumptions without having an understanding of either shelter's finances/obligations/programs.

Fundraising isn't cheap....and many groups don't have the time or the funding for fundraisers.

I know the rescue I volunteer with will not lower our adoption fees..to do that would require us to not provide a level of medical care that we feel is critical (and although everyone assumes we get a huge discount for spay/neuter..we are lucky if vets offer us a 20% discount...off the price they charge their normal clients...that is not a huge break over the normal costs). If that means we don't adopt to some individuals who feel our fee is too high....then fine...they can adopt from another group. We still average 20 dogs/puppies and 5 cats/kittens adopted every weekend.

Katie
post #32 of 58
Thread Starter 
Thanks, I got a lot of good opinions from all ya'll. Not to mention that a lot of you brought up really good points. I never even thought of the fact that someone would pay 20$ or so for an animal and ditch it, but honestly, I think it can happen regardless of the price that is charged. And I do understand that the vet bills are expensive, I do. I have a cat at home with cancer, and it cost $240.00 just to have the cyst removed. That doesnt include all of the shots she's had, the anitbiotic for the tape worms she had when I found her. I can absolutely understand. But why would someone charge $250.00 for a dog, and then I have to pay to have him or her neutered or spayed? I am not saying that I wont pay it. I just was kind of puzzled by it. As I said before, I paid $125.00 for Bjourne, and it was worth saving his life.
You are right, though. People do pay it. I just think that sometimes the price kind of makes you say, yeah...but I cant afford it. Especially since the dog will need to be evaluated by my vet, heartworm tested again, put on preventative, flea and tick preventative, a lymes diease booster if he hasnt had it....all of that adds up. I have seen rescue groups that charge $90 for a dog, but there a form that your vet has to fill out within a certain amount of time to say that you took the dog in and got the dog checked out and vaccinated if needed and put on a proper care routine, or they will sieze the dog, and you're out $90.
It just makes me sad to think of all of those animals left abandoned. Especially the huge amount that are in shelters.
Thanks, guys, for all of the insight. I understand better now then I did before.
post #33 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eatrawfish
There are a lot of reasons why it may happen. If the high kill shelter is a city shelter with an animal control they may HAVE to take in any animals that people bring in, they find on the street, etc. I'm betting the no-kill doesn't have to take all animals in. It's also not cheap to put animals to sleep. Plus, how eager are people to donate money to high kill shelters?

And it could also be poorly managed, I certainly don't like how the high kill shelters around here work.

But I also get sick of people giving us shocked looks when we say we require an $80 donation for the animals. If they want to pay less in this case, they can go to one of the city shelters.
$80???!!!! Is that all? I would pay that, and still give you a donation. That is absolutely not an unreasonable amount of money to ask for.
post #34 of 58
I know that shelters here (Canada) do not charge more for purebreds at the local shelter...However, any small purebred or even mix (such as Pomeranians) are gone within hours!! There is a waiting list for any small/toy dog that even comes into the shelter....
Its the big black dogs that sit there forever...or don't

What kind of dog is Bjourne, Diane?

I think even the purebred rescues in Canada would be cheaper than $250 but can't recall..its been so long since I looked.
post #35 of 58
my local shelter is £75 for a kitten and thats without netering, not too sure abot shots.
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNR1
But see....that is your choice...so you don't get a pet from the other shelter....but you can't expect a rescue group to change their fees simply because you believe them to be too high. Have you even asked them what is included in the fee or why their fee is different from the other shelter?? Perhaps they have more expenses or other programs that the other shelter does not....also, if we are talking about a full access shelter versus one that is a no kill...there may be funding provided from the state for the full access one to provide animal services that the no kill doesn't receive. Perhaps the full access one charges a "pull fee" to rescues? Seriously...you really are making some rather LARGE assumptions without having an understanding of either shelter's finances/obligations/programs.
I don't expect them to lower their fees. I certainly haven't been writing them letters demanding they do so, or otherwise lobbying for their fees to be lowered. However, just as they have the right to charge what they want, *I* have the right to think that their fees are ridiculous, considering that they have an inhouse vet clinic and kill practically anything that isn't in perfect health.

Yes, I am aware of what the fee includes - spay/neuter, vaxes and microchip, the same as the other shelter. They have LESS programmes than the other shelter, because as I said, they kill, kill, kill, while the other shelter has a foster care programme for sicklier animals. And yes, they DO receive funding from the city/province that the shelter with the cheaper fee does not receive, because they are a city shelter - all the more reason that they shouldn't need to charge that much given their policies.

It's not so much that I think $75+tax is too high in general - if we were talking about a small, no kill rescue that used foster homes, etc. I would consider $75 quite cheap - I think it's ridiculous based on the shelter's policies (kill, kill, kill), and the funding they receive from the city - do they have to change it 'cause I don't like it? Nope, of course not. But am I going to continue to think it's way to high given their policies and funding? Heck yes.
post #37 of 58
Quote:
But why would someone charge $250.00 for a dog, and then I have to pay to have him or her neutered or spayed?
Are you sure you are required the neuter the animal?? With a fee around that amount, I would think it would have already been done. Our rescue charges $250..but the dogs are all brough UTD on shots and spayed/neutered. All rescues/shelters recommend you have your pet checked by a vet after you adopt it to ensure it is healthy.

Katie
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juniper
I don't expect them to lower their fees. I certainly haven't been writing them letters demanding they do so, or otherwise lobbying for their fees to be lowered. However, just as they have the right to charge what they want, *I* have the right to think that their fees are ridiculous, considering that they have an inhouse vet clinic and kill practically anything that isn't in perfect health.

Yes, I am aware of what the fee includes - spay/neuter, vaxes and microchip, the same as the other shelter. They have LESS programmes than the other shelter, because as I said, they kill, kill, kill, while the other shelter has a foster care programme for sicklier animals. And yes, they DO receive funding from the city/province that the shelter with the cheaper fee does not receive, because they are a city shelter - all the more reason that they shouldn't need to charge that much given their policies.

It's not so much that I think $75+tax is too high in general - if we were talking about a small, no kill rescue that used foster homes, etc. I would consider $75 quite cheap - I think it's ridiculous based on the shelter's policies (kill, kill, kill), and the funding they receive from the city - do they have to change it 'cause I don't like it? Nope, of course not. But am I going to continue to think it's way to high given their policies and funding? Heck yes.
Ah...but have you asked whether they set the fee or is the fee mandated by the government?? Additionally, you are talking about a shelter that probably has to pay for staff where the one that is a no kill doesn't. A full access shelter must take in EVERYTHING...a no kill shelter typically is one that has the luxury of choosing which animals they take in.

If you are concerned about their kill rate...check to see if they in fact will work with rescues. If not, you have a platform to enact a change...not necessarily with regards to their fee, but with how many animals they PTS.

Katie
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
I know that shelters here (Canada) do not charge more for purebreds at the local shelter...However, any small purebred or even mix (such as Pomeranians) are gone within hours!! There is a waiting list for any small/toy dog that even comes into the shelter....
Its the big black dogs that sit there forever...or don't

What kind of dog is Bjourne, Diane?

I think even the purebred rescues in Canada would be cheaper than $250 but can't recall..its been so long since I looked.
I don't find that strange at all. For instance, my condo has weight limit-dog has to be below 35 pounds. So, if I were to get a dog, I would have to go for a small one as well.
post #40 of 58
Quote:
Truthfully, the reason why there are so many dogs without homes is because people give them up. If no one gave up an animal...none would have to be PTS.
Actually, the reason why there are so many dogs and cats without homes is because of over breeding, period. BYB's and puppy/kitten mills that satisfy the "I gotta have this or that purebred puppy or kitten) AND because of the many people all over the country who get puppies and kittens for free and then don't spay or nueter. The shelters are full of more dogs and cats than homes could possibly be found for them. So there would be LOTS of animals put to sleep even if every person who got an animal, kept it.
post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizwithcat
I don't find that strange at all. For instance, my condo has weight limit-dog has to be below 35 pounds. So, if I were to get a dog, I would have to go for a small one as well.

And the fact that less smaller dogs are given up to a shelter.
Its rare to see a toy/small dog there.

But everybody and their cousin who gets that 5 lb puppy because its cute and then gives it away when it *gasp* grows up to be a big dog and develops owner caused problems are the people who deserve to rot in a cage for the rest of their lives....

(and 35 lbs isn't a small dog. That is considered a medium dog. )
post #42 of 58
Okay for those who think 25$ for a cat is too little... That is what I aadopted Zoey for and she gets treated better than I do .... She was spayed but had nt had any shots so her real cost with shot was about 65$ which I could afford ... Gigi my yorkie came from a shelter too and was 65 $ all shots and was spayed when her old owner turned her in ... $250 would be way out of my budget under the walk in and find a buddy shelter way....
post #43 of 58
I'm with a lot of others here. I understand the need to charge so much but refuse to pay that much for an animal. Or at least a young/baby animal, for a kitten $65 + per animal is a bit much if the cat hasn't even been nuetered yet. Now for an adult cat it's a good deal for a spayed/nuetered utd on shots animal and I would be more likely to pay that for them. Plus having the added delight of rescueing a higher need animal as compared to kittens.

Gandalf and Samwise I got for free however, Gandalf my cousin's cat had. Yes she's spayed now but it's the same old story, she got out before she was spayed and low and behold kittens. Samwise showed up on her porch and she offered him and I took him in a heart beat. All in all with vet expenses though including shots, and nuetering and treatment for fleas, I spent well over $65 for each of them. But I got to chose my vet, someone I trust to treat my animals right and someone that will forseeably care for them the rest of their lives. That' worth something to me, complete vet history being available.

If I ever get another kitten, I would hope for the same thing to happen for one to come along in need that I would just take without having to go to the shelter. It cuts down on me wanting to adopt every animal I see as well. Only one kitty in need, means only one kitty for Traci at once. At least until the next, little angel comes along.
post #44 of 58
To start with, I find the "kill, kill, kill" statement absolutely inappropriate, offensive, and childish. "No Kill" (or more accurately: "Limited Admission") shelters are limited in their scope and often try to send the misguided message that they are somehow morally superior to the "Kill" (more accurately: "Open Admission") shelters. The Limited Admission shelters absolutely are less expensive to operate. They have the luxury of only accepting adoptable animals, and not accepting strays or injured animals (unless they are high profile and can be used for fund raising.) Even the flagship of the "No Kill" movement, the SPCA shelter in San Francisco, presents very misleading information about their programs and what they accomplish. This would get into an entirely different so I'll stop with that.

As a former board member of both the local county shelter and Siberian Husky Rescue I am all to familiar with the whole budgeting process and the method of establishing adoption fees. To start with, $250 for a breed rescue group is a pretty standard fee. I've have friends who run, or at least have had multiple contacts with the people who operate rescues for Beagles, Pomeranians, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, German Shepards, Rottweilers, St. Bernards, and others (including a Persian cat rescue group.) Breed rescues tend to take animals in "at all costs" and put considerable effort into injured and sick individuals. I know we (Siberian Husky Rescue) put thousands into several individuals. The $250 adoption fee does not cover the cost of rescuing all these animals and many of us have put substantial amounts of our own money into the program and specific animals. Whenever you go to a breed rescue always expect a fee in this range.

As for shelter fees, we received $450,000 from the county ever year. This just barely paid the salaries of the caretaker and administrative staff. The county also provided the building and utilities. We still had to provide funds for adoption counselors, food, vet care, full time vet techs, medications, etc. We have a full time person for fund raising and another one for coordinating volunteers (and we have many thousands of volunteer hours.) We also raised over $80,000 in cash and well over $100,000 in donated materials, equipment, and services to set up our in house surgical clinic to spay and neuter animals before they left. We pay for a vet and support staff plus supplies for this clinic and the last numbers I saw indicated it cost us roughly $45 per animal of each spay/neuter procedure.

The shelter also has to take in all animals presented. That includes every stray, every animal control seizure, every owner turn in, every injured animal, etc. We pay a Vet Tech to be on call for emergencies every night and on weekends. We hold animals for animal cruelty cases, some for as long as two years. And yes we do euthanize animals. I can tell you from personal experience that I don't know which is more difficult, walking through the shelter with the paperwork and deciding which animals will be euthanized, or actually euthanizing the animals. If I have room for 200 dogs, and 4 get adopted, but I need room for the expected 20 tomorrow I have to make room some other way. I certainly wish there was a better solution, but at this point I don't have one.

In the end, we charge $100 for dogs and $75 for cats, and even with our other funding sources that just barely covers expenses.

As for why there are so many animals, claiming that lack of spay/neuter is the only cause is extraordinarily naive. While there are regional differences, in most shelters anywhere from 50% to 70% of the dogs are adult animals. Cat populations vary with the season, but there are generally plenty of adult cats in the shelter too. If over breeding were the only problem the population would be entirely puppies/kittens. Spay/neuter programs are certainly important and I fully support programs in our community (including helping with donations and personally overseeing management of the web site for the largest local program.) What's also important is educational programs to reduce (if not eliminate) the huge number of adult animals surrendered and abandoned.
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharmsDad
What's also important is educational programs to reduce (if not eliminate) the huge number of adult animals surrendered and abandoned.
That's a very good point. Last summer, over 70,000 dogs and cats were abandoned in Germany (population c. 84 million). The figures for small animals like rabbits and guinea pigs were just as bad. Can you imagine what the numbers were for the U.S.?
post #46 of 58
CharmsDad:
That was an outstanding post that gave me information that I previously did not have. It is good to hear the perspective from someone inside one of these shelters. I think often times when we talk about shelters PTS animals we think that they are mean for doing it, and its heartless. When you talked about how hard it is for you to do it, but you dont have any choice, it opened my eyes a bit. It truly seems like a very hard decision to make and I commend you for being able to do it because I know that I would not be able to do the same. You are trying to help as many as you can, but not all of them are ment to be saved. It is a job that none of us here want, to have to look in an animals eyes and say, that one. You also brought up a good point about not refusing animals, where other shelters can. I am sure if a shelter only excepted show quality animals that they would not have to put many, if any down. Since you take in all animals injured or not, pretty or not, then unfortunatly someone is not going to get picked. Another intersting statement you made was about the large number of adult animals in shelters and not all of them are because of pets not being fixed. An intersting point indeed. Well done.
post #47 of 58
There are some very interesting perspectives brought up throughout this thread. I witness a variety of philosophies within rescue groups in my area:

No kill shelters that take in nothing but homeless animals, regardless of their health situation.

Kill shelters that should take in any animal but sometimes turn them away if they are really overfull.

Independent breed-specific rescue groups that either charge a normal rate or inflated rate if the animal is truly a pure-bred.

Independent's who want their expenses back for a particular animal.

To classify rescue groups one way or the other doesn't really reflect the whole picture. $250 for a pure bred is not uncommon, but if you keep looking, you may find that pure bred for a much lower price. Keep scanning petfinder.com for your area and the right dog at the price you can afford will eventually appear.
post #48 of 58
I payed twenty dollars for elliot at a shelter, but as far as I remember we had to pay for the neutering ourselves( I might be wrong here, maybe we got a discount or something, but he wasnt neutered before we adopted him) though we WERE given a paper that said we had to get him neutered by such and such time or we would have to return him. For his shots and neutering it turned out to be about 120 dollars all together, plus 20 from what he cost, so 140 altoghether. I dont see 100 bucks, or even 85 here as unreasonable for a neutered/spayed cat that has been dewormed (and maybe had it's first shots)
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOrangeMenace
I payed twenty dollars for elliot at a shelter, but as far as I remember we had to pay for the neutering ourselves( I might be wrong here, maybe we got a discount or something, but he wasnt neutered before we adopted him) though we WERE given a paper that said we had to get him neutered by such and such time or we would have to return him. For his shots and neutering it turned out to be about 120 dollars all together, plus 20 from what he cost, so 140 altoghether. I dont see 100 bucks, or even 85 here as unreasonable for a neutered/spayed cat that has been dewormed (and maybe had it's first shots)
Good point. I didn't pay anything to adopt Jamie, since I'm a member of the the rescue group he came from, but I did pay for worming, all his shots, treatment of ear mites, and neutering. All together, that was over $200 in the first 4 months we had him. Normally, the rescue group would only adopt out cats that were up to date on their shots and neutered (if they were at least 6 months old), but that year there simply wasn't enough money.
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharmsDad
To start with, I find the "kill, kill, kill" statement absolutely inappropriate, offensive, and childish. "No Kill" (or more accurately: "Limited Admission") shelters are limited in their scope and often try to send the misguided message that they are somehow morally superior to the "Kill" (more accurately: "Open Admission") shelters. The Limited Admission shelters absolutely are less expensive to operate. They have the luxury of only accepting adoptable animals, and not accepting strays or injured animals (unless they are high profile and can be used for fund raising.) Even the flagship of the "No Kill" movement, the SPCA shelter in San Francisco, presents very misleading information about their programs and what they accomplish. This would get into an entirely different so I'll stop with that.

I'd just like to say that in the strictly non kill shelter I work at, we have to refuse any 'healthy' animals, unless they have been dumped on the country road, or if the person trying to give them to us hints that they will harm/dump the animal.
'adoptable' isn't an issue. I just counted and there are 30+ resident dogs with no chance of ever being adopted living happily with the 'safe' familiar routine they know. At any time 50% of pens are taken up with unadoptable dogs and I usually have to walk visitors past my main yard up to the top yard because nothing is adoptable in my yard.

We care for all dogs we take in, as individuals, we sent a destructive blind spaniel to england for a chance of a home after months here, and received a call today that if we don't go to england before 1 week to collect him, he will be euthanised. (he destroyed his new owner's couch despite being told he needs to be kept supervised indoors)

The ferry is already booked.

We don't use injured or brutally abused dogs to boost our funds. Quite the opposite, we keep them off the spotlight because the last thing they need is more stress and attention from strangers.
We don't get any tv slots or interviews with magazines or papers, just word of mouth.
And today during the annual open day E25,000 was raised, with little publication, just a few handmade signs around the county.

I agree with and admire a lot of posts you make but please don't generalise shelters.. we put so much work into our shelter to make these animals' lives better after the abuse they suffer at the hands of man.
post #51 of 58
since it's kitten season here, the one local shelter i know of is selling cats and kittens at "rock bottom prices" because they're too many. $20, lower
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonOddity042
since it's kitten season here, the one local shelter i know of is selling cats and kittens at "rock bottom prices" because they're too many. $20, lower
Just a slight correction..they are "adopting" kittens.

Katie
post #53 of 58
We paid $160 at the SPCA for our dog, pretty reasonable considering it includes first shots, neuter and microchip.

I think kitty adoptions are around $140, same deal with shots etc. included.
post #54 of 58
I've been following this thread for a little while, and it absolutely breaks my heart that there are shelters out there who either a) can't afford/find a vet to do neuters for them or b) simply don't care enough to do it (I'm sure it's 'a' in most cases, but there have to be b's out there, too). These places don't give shots and microchips either? I just don't see how asking for $20 for a cat and not giving it the care it needs helps any. What separates this from a backyard breeder? Why can't EVERY shelter ask for at least, say, $75 (arbitrary number, I know), and then provide the basic initial care to make sure that the animals is initially well cared for and doesn't contribute to the problem that necessitates shelters in the first place?
post #55 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
I know that shelters here (Canada) do not charge more for purebreds at the local shelter...However, any small purebred or even mix (such as Pomeranians) are gone within hours!! There is a waiting list for any small/toy dog that even comes into the shelter....
Its the big black dogs that sit there forever...or don't

What kind of dog is Bjourne, Diane?

I think even the purebred rescues in Canada would be cheaper than $250 but can't recall..its been so long since I looked.
Bjourne is a siberian husky. I wanted to get a smaller dog and he seems to do really well with every pomeranian he is has been around. He doesn't do well with my brother-in-laws black lab, Madison. He does pretty good with my other brother-in-laws heinz 57 dog (I think Lucky has some doberman in him and maybe some lab.) He just does better with dogs that are smaller than him. Thats why I was interested in a pomeranian.
post #56 of 58
Thread Starter 
To be perfectly honest, I prefer to get an older dog. I am not in the market for a cat, I have 6 at home already, with three kittens that are up next to be spayed and neutered.

I prefer an older dog because for starters, those of us that are educated in this and pay attention know that Toby, the 10 year old dog is a lot less likely to get adopted than Buster, the 8 month old puppy. Puppies are a lot of work, and I think thats what lands them in the shelters. I want an older dog, I want a dog that is house trained. And a 10 year old still has plenty of years left as long as he/she is healty.
But the $250.00 adoption fee (it could have been misleading,) does not include the spay or neuter. It does include microchipping, all shots, and whatever else. It could have been misleading, so, I won't swear by it. But, I would rather go to the animal control shelter where they have spent time trying to locate the owners of animals that have been picked up and havent come to claim their pet, and the last option is either adoption or being pts, and adopt a dog from there. They charge $31.00 if spayed/neutered already and $90.00 if not. And then they spay/neuter them. But they get county funded, because they are animal control. Other shelters, dont get that kind of treatment.
I guess there really isnt a right answer to the problem. However, I do understand the background of the charges.
post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionessrampant
I've been following this thread for a little while, and it absolutely breaks my heart that there are shelters out there who either a) can't afford/find a vet to do neuters for them or b) simply don't care enough to do it (I'm sure it's 'a' in most cases, but there have to be b's out there, too). These places don't give shots and microchips either? I just don't see how asking for $20 for a cat and not giving it the care it needs helps any. What separates this from a backyard breeder? Why can't EVERY shelter ask for at least, say, $75 (arbitrary number, I know), and then provide the basic initial care to make sure that the animals is initially well cared for and doesn't contribute to the problem that necessitates shelters in the first place?
If you're referring in part to my post about Jamie not costing anything, but not having had any shots, etc. - I should have underlined that he wasn't from a shelter, but from a non-profit rescue organization that works with foster homes, and is entirely dependent on donations. Sorry - I wasn't too clear. Most of the money goes into TNR, and feeding/vetting feral colonies. Jamie's mother was apparently abandoned and turned up at one of the feeding stations, and his purported father was a feral. The foster family simply couldn't afford the extra costs of getting shots for the mother (cared for by a vet) and five kittens, as they had other cats of their own.
I was aware of that, and agreed in advance to bear the costs. The adoption fee was waived because I've been a member, and paying membership dues, for 15 or 20 years.
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionessrampant
I've been following this thread for a little while, and it absolutely breaks my heart that there are shelters out there who either a) can't afford/find a vet to do neuters for them or b) simply don't care enough to do it (I'm sure it's 'a' in most cases, but there have to be b's out there, too). These places don't give shots and microchips either? I just don't see how asking for $20 for a cat and not giving it the care it needs helps any. What separates this from a backyard breeder? Why can't EVERY shelter ask for at least, say, $75 (arbitrary number, I know), and then provide the basic initial care to make sure that the animals is initially well cared for and doesn't contribute to the problem that necessitates shelters in the first place?
Those are good questions...however, you have to consider that many shelters are in rural locations where there isn't a high adoption rate? The county is not going to put money into an animal to have it not be adopted and then be PTS.

Heck, one shelter I know takes the dogs that haven't been adopted and lines them up on the back of a truck and the vet euthanizes them right in the back of the truck.
Katie
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