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Nebraska man charged for sex with wife, 13 - Page 2

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellyyfaber
No matter how provocatively a 12 or 13 year old child is dressed------they're still a child. Isn't that a "they're asking for it" mentality?
No, I don't think so First as I said before their parents should teach them better, Second He should have known better. And yes he should be punished for what he did. as I said before the crime isn't in thinking it is in doing.. If it was a crime to think about something every single person in this country over the age od 18 months would have some kind of criminal record. Can you honestly tell me that you never thought about hurting or killing someone or just wished someone were dead, I seriously doubt it. We all have a fantasy world that we would never want anyone to know about., and as long as it is just your fantasy world there is no harm done and actually some good done. IT IS WHEN SOMEONE LETS HIS/HER FANTASY WORLD BECOME THEIR REAL WORLD THAT IT DOES THE DAMAGE. YES SEND HIS SORRY @$$ TO THE PEN. He should have never touched that girl. Also I find it hard to believe that anyone with a shred of sense cannot tell a 13 year old girl from one who is 19 unless he is deaf and blind.
post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellyyfaber
No matter how provocatively a 12 or 13 year old child is dressed------they're still a child. Isn't that a "they're asking for it" mentality?
No, I wouldn't apply that cliche that has been so often used for rape victims for God knows how long...
BUT it makes me wonder if some guys are being mislabeled as child molesters for having sex with some girls that are considered by law to be innocent children. You know, those innocent young girls that make an effort to look sleazy, act easy, lies about her age, etc., etc..
It's not ALWAYS the men who are to blame here..we love to bash them for being opportunists, but c-MON.
I can think of at least one sleazy girl in my Junior High School years! Not to mention high school. And yes, these were asking for it, in return for drugs, a ride in a cool car with a guy who made money, alcohol, whatever.
Not a judgement on these girls, but not all of them are so innocent as society would like to believe.
post #33 of 58
I know a girl who had three children by the time she was fifteen. All consent. One she let be adopted, and two were stillborn. She had at least fifteen boyfriends in the year I was friends with her, and she even told me once that she had had sex with just about every guy she could get her hands on in a town of 4000 people. She said she even had sex with her friends FATHER when she was 12. She was never molested as a child, she had nothing bad going on in her family life, she was just this way because that was who she was.

And I dont get this "She wasnt old enough to consent" crap. What... the day you turn 18 something magical is supposed to happen? When someone turns 18 are they supposed to "magically" be able to support themselves and have their own place and be able to make the right decisions? So does that mean the day before they couldnt make right decisions because they were underage???? That goes together with the whole children's rights IMO thing. I dont get why if you are under 18 TECHNICALLY by the law you are seen as unable to make "correct" decisions. Children are more mature than people make them out to be.

Now I'm not saying it was right for that guy to go have sex with her, I am just taking issue with the whole "If you're under 18 you cant make right or wrong decisions" thing. He had sex with her before he married her, and he should be punished for that.

Though I dont think all the guys my friend had sex with should be punished. Why? Because she knew exactly what she was doing. She seduced these men, and as hard as it may be to admit, with most people believing that they are superior to all other creatures because of our intelligence, and should be able to control themselves, even they succumb to their "animal instincts" every once in a while.

If the girl was the one coming on to him, then she should be charged equally beside him. People usually say "well he could have controlled himself, he is his own person and has his own will" Sometimes you just CANT controll yourself over some things. Look at people addicted to cigarettes, drugs, alcohol. Are they just supposed to "control themselves and just stop?"

Either way, the man should be punished for having sex with her before he married her, and if she was the one who came onto him, she also should be punished, and have therapy.
post #34 of 58
Quote:
She had at least fifteen boyfriends in the year I was friends with her, and she even told me once that she had had sex with just about every guy she could get her hands on in a town of 4000 people. She said she even had sex with her friends FATHER when she was 12. She was never molested as a child, she had nothing bad going on in her family life, she was just this way because that was who she was.
She WAS molested - by her friend's father, and many other men. She had nothing going on in her family life that you know about. I had a very close friend in elem. school who was what most would consider "loose." I myself saw her making out w/ a guy when we were 12, and was shocked by her behavior (but being 12 myself, didn't know how to lovingly confront her about it). I found out several years later that she had been raped by her father when she was 8 or 9.
Girls who are victimized sexually at a young age often develop problems with promiscuity and hypersexuality - it has to do with the love=sex=acceptance equation, which many grown women who were not victimized struggle with. Children (make no mistake, this girl, and your friend, at 13 is still a child.)are just not equipped to make those kinds of decisions (and I know plenty of women my age and older who still can't )
As far as the age of consent thing, 18 is not supposed to be a "magic number," but it's generally thought that once the average person reaches this age they are capable of sound reasoning in regard to relationships. As I've already said, it doesn't always work that way, but in a majority of cases age is a good indicator. Thus, someone who is over the age of consent should know better than to have sex with someone who is not, and in the eyes of the law, the elder person in the relationship is always the "responsible" party. While I agree with you that this young woman needs therapy (as do her parents), I do not believe it would serve any purpose to "punish" her for being preyed upon.
post #35 of 58
There is no reason why anyone under 18 should get married. Why would anyone let thier 13 year old daughter be with with a man 9 years older then her who is NOT related to her!!! She is 13 she should be hanging out with kids her own age. I would put the parents for in jail for letting this happen!!!!
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOrangeMenace
I know a girl who had three children by the time she was fifteen. All consent. One she let be adopted, and two were stillborn. She had at least fifteen boyfriends in the year I was friends with her, and she even told me once that she had had sex with just about every guy she could get her hands on in a town of 4000 people. She said she even had sex with her friends FATHER when she was 12. She was never molested as a child, she had nothing bad going on in her family life, she was just this way because that was who she was.

And I dont get this "She wasnt old enough to consent" crap. What... the day you turn 18 something magical is supposed to happen? When someone turns 18 are they supposed to "magically" be able to support themselves and have their own place and be able to make the right decisions? So does that mean the day before they couldnt make right decisions because they were underage???? That goes together with the whole children's rights IMO thing. I dont get why if you are under 18 TECHNICALLY by the law you are seen as unable to make "correct" decisions. Children are more mature than people make them out to be.

Now I'm not saying it was right for that guy to go have sex with her, I am just taking issue with the whole "If you're under 18 you cant make right or wrong decisions" thing. He had sex with her before he married her, and he should be punished for that.

Though I dont think all the guys my friend had sex with should be punished. Why? Because she knew exactly what she was doing. She seduced these men, and as hard as it may be to admit, with most people believing that they are superior to all other creatures because of our intelligence, and should be able to control themselves, even they succumb to their "animal instincts" every once in a while.

If the girl was the one coming on to him, then she should be charged equally beside him. People usually say "well he could have controlled himself, he is his own person and has his own will" Sometimes you just CANT controll yourself over some things. Look at people addicted to cigarettes, drugs, alcohol. Are they just supposed to "control themselves and just stop?"

Either way, the man should be punished for having sex with her before he married her, and if she was the one who came onto him, she also should be punished, and have therapy.

I am not saying that it is a magic number,but by law in this country it sure is the magic number for "you become an adult"....so that would be the age I would base things such as marriage on. Do I think someone as young as 18 should get married? Maybe maybe not..but a 13 year old has NO BUISNESS being married.
post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKittenDaddy
Also I find it hard to believe that anyone with a shred of sense cannot tell a 13 year old girl from one who is 19 unless he is deaf and blind.
Howard being a woman i can spot them a mile off, but with the help of makeup and clothing a lot of men i know can't.

My directors son met a girl in a nightclub a couple of years ago. It was just after midnight when she said she had to get home and then confessed that she was only 15!. He said there was no way he could have seen what age she was because of the way she was dressed etc...

This is why i think the UK should have I.D. cards because i've seen so many "kids" in our pubs and theres no way their 18!.
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicaLynn
She WAS molested - by her friend's father, and many other men. She had nothing going on in her family life that you know about. I had a very close friend in elem. school who was what most would consider "loose." I myself saw her making out w/ a guy when we were 12, and was shocked by her behavior (but being 12 myself, didn't know how to lovingly confront her about it). I found out several years later that she had been raped by her father when she was 8 or 9.
Girls who are victimized sexually at a young age often develop problems with promiscuity and hypersexuality - it has to do with the love=sex=acceptance equation, which many grown women who were not victimized struggle with. Children (make no mistake, this girl, and your friend, at 13 is still a child.)are just not equipped to make those kinds of decisions (and I know plenty of women my age and older who still can't ).
post #39 of 58
has anyone ever thought that she was willingly to have sex with him,
I know for a fact that alot of 13 year olds want to experience and would just take any guy for that, and if the 22 year old is interested why would she let down the opportunity.
It wont be when she reaches the age of 18, 20 that she will realise how young 13 year olds are
post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwan
has anyone ever thought that she was willingly to have sex with him,
I know for a fact that alot of 13 year olds want to experience and would just take any guy for that, and if the 22 year old is interested why would she let down the opportunity.
It wont be when she reaches the age of 18, 20 that she will realise how young 13 year olds are
And if you, at 19, Fwan, realize this, WHY DIDN'T the 21 yr old??? This is precisely why it is against the law for him, whether she was "willing" or not. Young, impressionable an easily pursuaded. Even if she was begging him for it, he could and SHOULD have said no!!
post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwan
has anyone ever thought that she was willingly to have sex with him,
I know for a fact that alot of 13 year olds want to experience and would just take any guy for that, and if the 22 year old is interested why would she let down the opportunity.
It wont be when she reaches the age of 18, 20 that she will realise how young 13 year olds are
You're so very right, Fran. I'm sure, in her mind, she absolutely wanted to do it! To be frank, I was one of those teens who was sexually active WAY too early in my life, and like you said I didn't realize how young I really was until many, many years later. Mind you, I wasn't really free and loose, but it was too early in my life to be able to make those kinds of decisions. Being pregnant at 16 (let alone 13 as this poor girl is!!) makes you face decisions you shouldn't have to until much later in life. But the point is, and the law says, that at 13 she shouldn't have had to make those kinds of decisions. At 13, it's pretty easy for an older man to convince her of what she wants.

As for men looking at 13 year olds with those kinds of thoughts. I'll also admit that I did that to more than one man I didn't know. I remember clearly going to an amusement park while in Girl Scouts when I was 13. I was an early bloomer, and while I didn't dress like a hoochie I was wearing makeup by then. There was a cute ride attendant that my friend and I flirted with, and he was quite interested in me...until he asked how old I was! He was quite sure I was at least 16-17 (he was 18). I mean, it was a safe flirtation for me with my friend there in a very public place and in a city 65 miles from my home, but if I had been local and wanted to lie I could have.

One more point. I have some very good friends who had to cross state lines with their parents to get married. He was 19, she was 15 or 16 (I forget which). She wasn't pregnant. They just really wanted to get married. And now, they have 3 lovely boys (first one born more than 7 years after they were married) and almost 20 years later are still happily married. It can work out when the people involved are young.
post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKittenDaddy
Here again you are not seeing or hearing what I am saying.
Funny, I don't remember having a similar conversation with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKittenDaddy
I am saying if you are offended by my opinion get over it. If you disagree with it we can talk it out bit don't come after me because I have a different opinion. So often we are so judgemental and polarized about something that we automaticaly go into the He/SHE must be bad and wrong and evil mode because of their opinions.
I see that happening a lot too. I've even seen someone *snort* at another's opinion. "TOUGH" (especially in capital letters), "get over it" kinda rubbed me the wrong way, but now I know how you meant it. Thanks for clarifying.
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkdaisy226
To what, to make it completely legal for 22 year old *men* to have sex with 13 year old *girls*?? I'm sorry, this might end up being something where we agree to disagree but I cannot understand how this situation can be okay...
actually i meant the laws that 22 year old men can marry 13 year olds
post #44 of 58
I dunno.. I think that if a woman (even a 13 year old girl) is old enough to get married, then she's certainly old enough to have sex.. and the age of adulthood being the age of consent, 12 years old in this case, I think they shouldn't try him.

I know it sounds stupid, and while i agree that that age difference is a perversion, I don't think it's fair to try him assuming that the girl is old enough to marry at 12, and chose to get married at 13.
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick_kitten
actually i meant the laws that 22 year old men can marry 13 year olds
you mean the law that allows 13-yr-olds to marry, period. Right?
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlecat
I dunno.. I think that if a woman (even a 13 year old girl) is old enough to get married, then she's certainly old enough to have sex.. and the age of adulthood being the age of consent, 12 years old in this case, I think they shouldn't try him.

I know it sounds stupid, and while i agree that that age difference is a perversion, I don't think it's fair to try him assuming that the girl is old enough to marry at 12, and chose to get married at 13.
The law in Kansas states that the age of consent for sex is 16 - so at 13, even though by law she was old enough to marry w/parental consent, she was NOT old enough to consent to sex. So since the pregnancy occured before the marriage, it was indeed illegal, regardless of what anyone thinks about the morality of it. Illegal act ---> criminal charges. Period.
post #47 of 58
I think that he should be proscuted, but with a suspended sentence that hinges on the care and treatment of his wife and child.
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat
I think that he should be proscuted, but with a suspended sentence that hinges on the care and treatment of his wife and child.
post #49 of 58
A girl might *want* to get married and/or have sex at 12 or 13 but she is not old enough or mature enough to make "healthy" choices to do so. It's such a tragedy that this girl's youth has been taken away and that she has to immediately immerse herself in motherhood. It's so very sad when babies are having babies.
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicaLynn
you mean the law that allows 13-yr-olds to marry, period. Right?
of course, whats to stop a 14 year old and a 12 year old setting up home if that law isnt changed?!
post #51 of 58
Well, ideally their parents, but. . . (tongue firmly in cheek)
post #52 of 58
What a HOT subject. Definatly charge the guy, and the girl for that matter. I mean did she tell him the truth about how old she was? Some girls look a lot older than what they are.
In saying that I also think she needs some serious counselling and they should BOTH be made to go on a parenting course.
I have an old friend who had a baby at 13, found out years later that her dad had been abusing her and she was looking for some male compssion the only way she knew how. Her mum bought up the baby and she went away to boarding college.
I also think the marraige should be declared invalid and if they want to she can get hitched at the legal age.
Thats my 2 cents.
post #53 of 58
Ginger'sMum makes some great points! I think that the authorities could even charge the girl's parents with "failure to protect". Just because they are her parents doesn't mean that they have her best interests at heart.my husband has files in his office of families that are now of the 3rd generation of breaking the laws. The guy should be charged! Sure the anti-abortion groups will be willing to help the pregnant girl, with friendship, assistance, childcare for schooling and/or work; plenty of people will care for this girl if only they know how they should help. What a mess!
post #54 of 58
there are a lot of 12 and 13 year old girls these days that dress, act and look like they are much older. i can see how especially guys in their late teens/early twenties could be fooled. there are times when i'm not even sure how old some of these girls really are! (i work as a substitute teacher.) kids these days dress a lot older from age 3 right on up than i ever did until i was probably a junior or senior in high school. they also have "girlfriends" and "boyfriends" a lot younger than my friends and i did growing up. i'm only 23, but i'm still shocked by it oftentimes. kids also seem to be starting to be sexually active younger and younger all the time. they're in such a hurry to grow up and 6th graders want to be like the high school kids, so whatever they're doing the younger ones will follow suit. i was a bit of a late-bloomer, didn't have my first date or my first kiss until i was 17. of course a big part of that was my parents' "no dating til you're 16" rule. of course even if this girl's parents had a similar rule there are always going to be ways around it (lying for example.) if she were my daughter, no way would she be married to this guy, he would be in jail and the baby would be given up for adoption because she's too young to care for it. if a guy (or girl) is over 18 and thinking about getting sexually involved with someone who may or may not be of legal age, it is their responsibility to make damn sure first or it's their butt that goes to jail.
post #55 of 58
I must say I feel kind of sorry for some of these young men. Have you seen some of the 13 yr olds out there? They dress and act much older and unless a young man actually sees proof of ID (and even then there is no guarantee that it is not fake ID), it's pretty hard to tell. I've seen some of these young women and they talk and act like they "know their way around". Some probably do. So I have sympathy for young men out there - it's hard to tell. She probably acted like and told him she was 18. I don't think the guy should always be blamed - as my dad always told me - it takes 2 to tango.
post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite
I must say I feel kind of sorry for some of these young men. Have you seen some of the 13 yr olds out there? They dress and act much older and unless a young man actually sees proof of ID (and even then there is no guarantee that it is not fake ID), it's pretty hard to tell. I've seen some of these young women and they talk and act like they "know their way around". Some probably do. So I have sympathy for young men out there - it's hard to tell. She probably acted like and told him she was 18. I don't think the guy should always be blamed - as my dad always told me - it takes 2 to tango.
Yosemite makes a good point, although it's an unfortunate one. I think that the emphasis of our society on sexual value creates problems on both ends of the age scale. We have young people trying to be sexually mature, and mature people fleeing from the role of being elders and trying to capture the "essence of youth" instead. The other day, my hubby was telling me about the "new virginity" that his clients, teen girls, had told him about - it's not having penetration, but performing oral sex instead. One girl even told him that she saw an instructional video (did you all know they have videos about that? - jeesh! ) I can't imagine being that age telling a man such things, even my lawyer or doctor. I agree that the adult male defendants should be prosecuted for taking advantage of these girls, but I'm amazed at what some girls are willing to do for drugs, smokes or alcohol - we need to raise our girls to put more value on themselves than that!
After all, the girls are going to keep on maturing earlier, for whatever reason, and it's up to us to protect them all we can, and let them still be children - sex isn't the only fun, cool thing left to do in this world! And affection can be had from horses, cats & dogs, if a person knows how to appreciate it! Anyone here wanna volunteer to be a mentor?
post #57 of 58
I think at 13, one wouldn't really have been able to grasp the full consequences of what one was doing. She's be AWARE of it, sure. She's probably been made aware of the consequences through lecture, etc., but at 13, you just can't GRASP what that means. At 13, I was still living in a little Allie-fantasy-land...reality just doesn't set in that early for most people. This girl, however sexually mature she made herself out to be, was just far too young to really realize the severity of what she was doing. When I was 12 or 13, Titanic came out and I was fantasizing about finding the love of my life like it would be easy, peaches and cream. Obviously, like this girl, I had become too influenced by cultural icons and just had no clue what was really going on.

Obviously, both parties were a few fries short of a happy meal, if you know what I mean. But at 22, you can fully grasp the consequences of your actions and you are seen as an adult in the eyes of the law. He should have known better from the start. If you're 22 and going after a 13 year old (or a 13 year olf posing as 18 year old...trust me, those 5 years make a HUGE difference), chances are, there's something at least slightly wrong with you. I can't even imagine going after a 13 year old (or wanting to hang out with the young kids who pose as being older...I mean, they tend to be obvious, I was in grade/high school once), and I'm only 20!
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionessrampant
I think at 13, one wouldn't really have been able to grasp the full consequences of what one was doing. She's be AWARE of it, sure. She's probably been made aware of the consequences through lecture, etc., but at 13, you just can't GRASP what that means. At 13, I was still living in a little Allie-fantasy-land...reality just doesn't set in that early for most people. This girl, however sexually mature she made herself out to be, was just far too young to really realize the severity of what she was doing. When I was 12 or 13, Titanic came out and I was fantasizing about finding the love of my life like it would be easy, peaches and cream. Obviously, like this girl, I had become too influenced by cultural icons and just had no clue what was really going on.

Obviously, both parties were a few fries short of a happy meal, if you know what I mean. But at 22, you can fully grasp the consequences of your actions and you are seen as an adult in the eyes of the law. He should have known better from the start. If you're 22 and going after a 13 year old (or a 13 year olf posing as 18 year old...trust me, those 5 years make a HUGE difference), chances are, there's something at least slightly wrong with you. I can't even imagine going after a 13 year old (or wanting to hang out with the young kids who pose as being older...I mean, they tend to be obvious, I was in grade/high school once), and I'm only 20!
Well said!!!! And it means more coming from a 20 year old, cuz you're old enough to be wise & young enough to remember how it is!!
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