I'm a bit upset...

I feel I need to explain a little bit about how the forums are moderated.

I am the site's owner and administrator. A group of members who volunteered to help me keep an eye on the boards as it is my responsibility but there's no way I can handle everything by myself. Moderators have special editing capabilities that make it possible for them to edit posts or delete them, move threads around, delete whole threads, merge or split threads and close or open threads. These capabilities let them execute their decisions along the way without having to tell me to do it. This is what being a mod is all about.

I am thankful for this help and I don't consider myself any more knowledgable or more competent to make such decisions myself. I can tell you that some of the decisions are not easy - running forums with more than 1700 members, several hundreds of them quite active, is not easy. Behind each username there's a person and I never forget that. Online communications can be just as emotional as those in real life and I really don't like it when people's feelings get hurt, whatever the reasons.

I don't consider myself to have any divine properties and I don't think any of the mods do That's why we have a special secret moderators lounge which is visible only to moderators, where we can discuss guidelines and moderating decisions. We also have a special place for "deleted threads" which means that no threads are actually deleted and they can be revived (mind you we all make mistakes from time to time and threads can and do get really deleted, but we try not to).

Usually, when trouble is about to start or is starting we being it up in the lounge. I can tell you that some of the deleted threads have been discussed before and we decided to keep them open and just keep an eye on them so they won't get too out of line. However, and this is a point I must stress, when a moderator feels things may get out of hand quickly, she has the right, and I expect her to, make a judgement call and either close or "delete" a post or a thread there and then.

This is not something that is easily done and granted we're all human, and not all decisions are perfect. When you're a mod in the middle of the night and there's no other mod around, you have to make a decision and make it quickly. I stand behind these decisions. Then, we can and do discuss the matter in the moderators lounge and see what the other mods think and reverse some decisions if needs be. Nine out of ten times, most members don't even notice this. This time, as three popular threads were involved, it was very noticeable.

Please understand the sensitivities and respect the moderators for the hard and often very ungrateful job they're doing. They are members just like all of us and it's not easy having to be the "bad guy" from time to time. We're all human, and I don't think anyone pretends to be anything more than that. When a mod makes a decision she takes all sorts of considerations into account, not all of them obvious to every member immediately.

Also, with each such episode we are learning and trying to improve. We are still discussing the matter among the moderators. Your comments and feedback are very important to us. Those of you who have PM'd or emailed me in the past know that I always take your views into account. Please try to remain cool about this and let us all learn together in peace rather than by flaming each other.

I hope this clears some points.

Kittyfoot wrote:

"I would draw a parallel. If a Govt agency arbitrarily closes a public program and refuses to justify it's actions openly everyone would be up in arms screaming censorship. Why is that different?"

The difference is, the government is a public entitiy. It is owned in common by the people it governs or at least it is responsible to them. A website is more like a store. It might be open to the public, but it is actually a private space where people are allowed to congregate. The owner (or representatives thereof) does have the right to dictate certain standards of behavior. You don't have to agree with it, but you do have to comply if you want to stay. We are guests here.

Actually the moderators have been very generous about sharing their reasoning with us and taking our feedback into consideration. Other sites are not so accomodating.

On another note, not all moderators and users will get along. Some people will carry a grudge, some people will be able to slough it off, some people won't be invested enough to comment, some people will complain to the moderators or each other. Sounds normal. It's a shame when personal feelings get dragged into an executive decision. On either side.

It's a little like being a teacher and having your own child in your class: You don't want to be too easy on him but you also don't want to be too hard on him, so you always end up second-guessing yourself. And no matter what you do, he's always going to feel like you're singling him out for special attention in some way.

I got caught a bit in the middle of this because I was up and curious, but I think the people involved have a history that I don't know anything about, and they need to take it up with each other. My understanding is that Catarina posted some things in the lilyrose thread that might have been inflamatory and clearly did upset a few people. I thought we were past it in the thread, but Deb apparently didn't. She was originally going to close down just the one thread, but she was concerned about personal retaliation in the other threads and thought it was better to shut them down too. Just like a few months ago there was a disagreement that bled over into other discussions. Now I don't know all the personal background here, and I'm not in a position to ascribe other agendas to either party. I just know that I understand how this decision happened and I can respect it even if I don't agree with it 100%.

And actually a thread I started with my own questions got deleted too. But I am not sitting here asking "Why is this one okay when mine was not?" Because the situation changes over time and life and relationships is more like surfing than bulldozing: You have to work with what's out there, not try to make everything conform to your ideals.

Not to offend anyone, just putting my $0.02 out there as another perspective.

I was contacted to come back to the Boards to clear something up and I do see where you're wrong Deb and are telling this story to accomodate yourself.

1.To respond to your first statement: The Lilyrose thread was not a party Thread until after I mentioned Max...so I did not intrude on anyone's party.

2. This was Max's homebase and those that were sick of seeing him in the Limelight didn't want it on the site. Those that didn't want to see the information are the ones that started flaming ME! I never flamed anyone about Max. I asked for funds of a dollar or 50 cents if it was possible and was attacked for asking, but yet some little kid comes on here and asks for money and everyone's writing checks. What gives? Max was brutally Murdered by a police officer...does anyone get it?

3. ????????????????? I certainly cared nothing about that LilyRose Party...they could party till they actually found LilyRose.

4. You NEVER gave us any explantion before you closed the Threads! You didn't even PM me until I asked you to on a Thread that was opened by Sunlion, Meme posted and I posted where you finally sent me a PM. and then you closed that Thread! Why did that have to be closed? Not only that...you told Meme an entirely different reason than what you gave me.

Anne has emailed me and asked me to stay...If things were spoken in total truth, yes, this would be a wonderful site. But, there's a click here and it turns my stomach to see people afraid to post because of these people.

Sunlion, I have one thing to say to you...I did not say one word to them before their excursion/party to find LilyRose....that is an untrue statement on your part. I was openly ATTACKED by Melissa and you can't in truth deny it.

It is clear that some members are very upset. We understand that and we really do understand how frustrated some of you are right now.

My hope is that now that everyone has been able to vent their frustration with the decisions that were made, we can go back to where we were just a day ago.

I think this is a situation in which no one can win at this point, so lets just stop for now and go back to having fun visiting with each other here at the Cat Site!

Oh, I sure understand that it would upsetting to suddenly find all that stuff gone. Deb made a judgement call, and those are more prone to error than other kinds of decisions. You might disagree with her assessment, but she has the authority to make it and it doesn't appear to be arbitrary or whimsical, that is, she seems to have tried to be fair and it doesn't seem to be just a case where she deleted it because she didn't appreciate it.

Freedom of speech means the government can't stop you from expressing dissension. It applies primarily to disagreement with the government's actions and policies, and it was written in response to monarchical governments where kings simply had their opponents assasinated. In many places even today, if you don't agree you'd better keep your mouth shut. In the US, we can shout it from the rooftops or get an infomercial or post it on the 'net. It does not however mean that the government will suddenly change its plans just because a minority dissents. We have freedom of speech here in as much as we have given more or less public voice to our dissatisfaction with this situation and we have not been barred from the site. I don't feel particularly censored, because I have been able to disagree or to say unpopular things. To what degree, Tiptop, do you think standards of behavior in general constitute censorship?

However, I think the problem here is that an assessment was made about emotional content and intent, which resulted in an unpopular decision. Was it objectively right or wrong? That's another question. Remember too that life is not fair, and both sides believe they are right.

Anne has replied to my email asking me to not leave. I almost considered staying after all, until I came and started reading this thread again. It just reiterates to me exactly why I chose to leave earlier today in the first place. I am not going to hold back because first of all I won't be sticking around after this post, and secondly I assume one of you moderators will probably delete it anyways, because it directly targets you and you won't like it. So either don't read it at all, or sit back and try to understand why so many people are angry with you.

I want to tell you all why I don't want to be here. Because everyone is so over judgemental of everyone else. As soon as one of the "respected" members ( and you know who you are ) doesn't like something being said they do one of 3 things. They either start trouble within the thread, they ask a moderator to delete it or delete it themself if they are a moderator, or they make "obvious" comments about it on a new thread. This is not only immature, but it is ridiculous. We are all individual people, all of us have our own views and opinions, and all of us have the right to state that opinion as long as it falls within the guidelines of "TCS" rules and regulations. The problem lies within the moderators themselves I believe.

The ones who have open minds , and there are a few of them , seem to be much more cordial when it comes to "deleting" or altering threads. They either step in on the thread and say something, or you receive a PM or email first. That would be the correct way to handle it. Then there are the ones who take it into their own hands because they have that power, and just do as they like with no regard to other peoples feelings. Did it ever occur to any of you moderators that perhaps you might have been "perceiving" the thread incorrectly? Couldn't you have PM'd Catarina to clarify it and then if you still weren't satisfied perhaps then you could have deleted just her post?? And is it a coincidence that you not only targetted Catarina in the Lilyrose thread, but suddenly her MJ thread that she started as well as Max's are also deleted? Puh leese. You could have just as easily deleted just a portion and avoided this whole big thing, but you didn't. Because you just had to stir up something.
With all due respect to Anne, and I mean that sincerely, perhaps she should reconsider who she chooses as moderators. Maybe people with a little more of an "open Mind" should be asked instead of the kind of people that are doing the job right now.

I am going to remain a member here, because at some point I am sure that I may need some "feline' advice and this is truly the best place to get that. But I will not frequent the lounge, I feel the group of you that are the bullies make it not worth it. I posted earlier that I wanted to thank all of you etc....and I meant it, but I felt I owed it to Anne and the rest of you exactly why I am so upset. I wouldn't want to have anyone just assume why I left, and it be incorrect.

No, Catarina, as I recall we had already begun partying and your post showed up on the list because that thread was getting a lot of attention and the one about Max was not, which bothered you. It was getting attention precisely because the party was interesting to people. But we don't have to agree on this, I said it was MY understanding, and of course the thread is gone now so it's just you and I arguing about what we remember.

Yes, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

But I don't know either of the ladies involved well enough to make that assessment. Nor to suggest any ulterior motives for either of them.

I'm just sorry toes got stepped on.

Anyway, I'm done in this thread. I'll keep following it in case someone addresses me specifically, but I'll probably reply by pm. I thought I might be able to clarify a thing or two, but I think I'm not helping so I'll just retreat for a while. I don't need to keep stirring the pot, as much as I keep thinking "wait, we can fix it, just do this" (laughs at self)

No, there was a discussion and all I said was that "I wished that more people would pay more attention...etc...." I had no beef about the Thread getting attention...that's for sure...I found it a bit ridiculous and I have every right to since the lady didn't give a crap about us as people. So, I was wondering why the big fuss over her.

So, disagree all you want, but the Thread holds the truth. I did say "I wished Max would get the attention this unknown x member from two months ago...????" there was no malicious intent, but yet what I received in return was. Besides, as I said before, it was a discussion and the Thread will prove that. I may have my own character faults, but I am NOT a liar, nor do I start trouble.

You have no idea how many times I've been flamed because of an innocent cat that was brutalized...this is a CatSite...what do you expect me to say when I've been involved in this case for almost a year.

It would be nice to get support from people that love cats. I'm sure you would agree; not to mention, even if I had a beef with someone here and that happened to their cat...trust me, I'd be all for helping them convict the person charged.

I don't know if *I'm* the person that is being referred to or not, but I just wanted to respond.

Just to clarify the max thread hasn't been deleted, but moved to the SOS forum. Anne stated that was were it belonged. Debra Myers had already posted that it was being moved to the SOS thread, so I didn't post again, just moved it out of the lounge as it had become a duplicate thread.

I have to say that I'm a bit mystified. The only threads I've deleted were duplicates, and Anne is very clear about wanting that done. I've never altered a post before either. I've moved some threads to their proper forums. I've actually done very few things as a moderator. I don't think that I've started any trouble in any threads except to state my opinion and I've always been respectful when I've done that and never made it a personal attack.

I'm not feeling guilty and feel like I have to defend myself, but being a moderator and therefore considered 'part of the problem' I wanted to give my side.

OK..enough. I didn't open this thread for a he said...she said session.

As I understand it now,the threads in question have not been deleted but rather moved. Ok..well and good. Much of the resentment could have been avoided by simply LEAVING a post stating that. This to me was/is a procedural error and should be borne in mind for next time.

Sunlion,I apologize for not making myself clear. I was not comparing Govt and CS...simply procedures. Surely in any venue a person has the right to know why an action is taken?

To the Moderators. I am not complaining on a personal basis. I do understand the job you have assumed here and I know it can be hard. Like a referee in a game you are always wrong even when you know you're right. No instant replay either. Personalities will always be at play in every forum..we are human beings after all.

I regret that Anne had to be bothered with this. It would have been much simpler if an explination of actions taken had been posted for those of us who were not online for the original threads rather than just everything disappearing.

I think you misunderstood me, Catarina, as perhaps I misunderstood you.

I did not mean you are a liar, though clearly you heard that. I mean that people remember things differently. That is why eyewitness accounts of the same event are so different from each other. Without the thread in front of us to verify our memories, we both recall things happening in a different orders.

What I recall is 1) you posting was that you wished your Max thread was getting as much attention as lilyrose was, and 2) that the lilyrose thread was getting the attention because the party was starting. Whether that was accurate, I cannot say without seeing the thread again. And even then you and I might disagree about when the party began.

But I really don't mean to be posting here again, I just wanted to clarify my meaning. Also, I am not angry, so please don't hear me that way.

Ok.... I do appreciate how hard it is to be a moderator. And some of the moderators do and excellant job but there are some that dont. Its those that dont that rub me the wrong way. And I do think that deleting the 3 threads was the wrong thing to do. The moderator could have simply just locked the threads after posting the reason for doing so and just left it at that. That way everyone could have seen the same reason for doing it. Instead the moderator deleted the whole threads was pm'ing different people with different reasons for locking/deleting the threads. Now that is sure to cause more problems then it solved.

Thats all I have to say on this matter....

Meme

Sunlion,

Okay, I did hear you perceive what you said as calling me a liar. I do undertand what you are saying now and I too am tired of the dissension here. I do agree with you about what I said about Max...we just do not agree on the timing I said it...Fine...I do not agree with you regarding the other statements made during the party when people were planning a trip to find LilyRose...I never made a post...ever.

I did percieve that you were being snyde with me, however; I would like to remain on good terms with you. I hope this will clear up the tension between us. I presume perception of what was said can be deceptive no matter what the timing, however; I know in my heart I meant no harm. I am simply not built that way.

(for relief, if nothing else)

Catarina wrote:

I am simply not built that way.

Click to expand...

But (and I think TIPTOP would agree)...you ARE built!

(hehehehehehehehehe-couldn't resist)

Bill

this post has been reported as getting out of hand. I've left it open because I feel like people need to be able to vent and say what's on their mind, and that it will do more harm than good to lock or delete this.

Now the decision to leave it open is being called into question.


what are your thoughts on this?

I'm serious.


I would really like serious responses because I'm at a loss here.

Yes, Catarina, I think that was the one and only post you made on that thread. I did not mean to imply anything about other posts to that thread, and I did not follow the other 2 deleted threads until they were closed, at which time I scanned them but did not read everything.

I find I often feel very neutral about things, which you could tell if we were talking, but when I post them they seem inflammatory. I was not angry or upset in anything I said in this thread, but I'm sure there are things that had a lot of emotion read into them.


Kittyfoot, People often can't distinguish between what is truly public and what is private but open to the public. I have heard all kinds of things justified by the statement "It was a public place, you had no right to interfere" when in fact it was a private place. I'm sorry if I talked down to you, most people I've met don't get the distinction.

Close it, delete it, whatever, I'm guessing some new iteration will pop up.

Opinion (belonging to me): leave it open (unless it becomes SERIOUSLY hostile) and let it die out.

What's done is done, what's said is said...enough.

Bill

I don't think I should post their name, do you?


Look I'm trying to be as sensitive to this subject as possible, and the last thing I want to do is cause more waves.

I don't know if the people have spoken enough, but I feel like this should stay open as long as possible so people feel like they have an outlet.