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post #61 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
I also wonder how people can suscribe to an ideology or refer to a book in history with such archaic, barbaric practices in their daily existence to this very present day!
Because for those of the faith, like myself, the Bible is not just a book, but the Living Word of God - and like any living being it is constantly evolving. There are thousands of scholars worldwide who are constantly studying the Bible and all it's translations, to discover the true meaning of God's Word.

There is a reason it's called the OLD Testament - it is the Old Law, the Law that we were freed from when Jesus came to shed his blood for our sins. If you really read His teachings in the New Testament, you will discover His teachings (requirements, or law) much simpler, but they are still God's Word.

I have always found it interesting that non-christians seek out and cling to these passages from the Old Testament as their justification for condemning Christianity as "barbaric" and "archaic." That's a little like condemning the Harry Potter books because they have the word "Witchcraft" in them. You need to look at, read and STUDY the book as a whole before you condemn it. (and with the Bible, that's a tall order, I know)
post #62 of 83
I've always been curious about the whole Old versus New Testiment thing and what to take literally and what not to take literally. I honestly do not mean to be confrontive (and hope I am not doing that now), I am simply trying to understand.... so, here goes:

How can some Christians say that we need to not follow everything that was said in the Old Testiment because of the changes made in the New Testiment, yet they insist that the story of creation from the Old Testiment is fact. If the prohibitions on touching/eating pork, and the quotes in the post above are "dismissed" why do we still insist that the world was created in 7 days?

I really, really do not mean to be rude here, I am simply confused and I am sure that someone can clarify this for me.
post #63 of 83
Quote:
I also wonder how people can suscribe to an ideology or refer to a book in history with such archaic, barbaric practices in their daily existence to this very present day!
You wouldn't be alone in your wondering. However as Rica Lynn pointed out, it is the OT and Jesus came to free us from the bondage of those old laws and customs designed by men.

Example: Many people know the phrase : "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone." The related story in the Bible involves a bunch of men (important, high-standing men among them) who brought a prostitute out to be stoned to death. Jesus was sitting on the ground and he started to draw lines in the sand as he quoted the above phrase. Many believe Jesus was beginning to write the names of the men who had been with this prostitute and he was making the point that you cannot judge (condemn, in this case kill) someone for something that you yourself could be quilty of. It takes two to create the "sin" of fornication and Jesus knew this woman was getting the raw end of the deal (according the laws of the day though, this is what men did).
post #64 of 83
Quote:
why do we still insist that the world was created in 7 days?
Some Christians believe in Creative Evolution meaning God didn't mean a literal seven days. I, like many DO believe it was a literal seven days because in the scripture, God said there was "morning" and there was "evening". That signifies a 24 hr time period to me. Plus, believing God is God and can do whatever He likes, to me, it is completely believeable that He made the earth in a literal seven days. In the grand scope of things, as long as I believe God is the CREATOR, if I am wrong about the actual time it took, Oh well.
post #65 of 83
Renae, that's a good question. I'm sure some will say I'm not really qualified to answer since I'm not actually Christian, but since I attended a Lutheran College and took many courses on theology and doctrine, I'll give it a shot.

According to Lutheran doctrine, the Old Laws contained in the Old Testament and particularly in Deuteronomy and Leviticus were specifically intended for the Isrealites during their 40 years of wandering the desert with Moses. These laws were basically voided when Jesus came and established the New Law. In His sermons, Jesus basically said that the 10 Commandments are still necessary, and introduced the Golden Rule. Jesus also says that he has fulfilled the Old Law (meaning much of Deuteronomy, with the requirements of sacrifices) so that it is not necessary to do those things anymore. However, while Jesus may have fulfilled the Old Law, he did not nullify the rest of the Old Testament, including the Creation story.
post #66 of 83
Thanks Heidi! That is the best explanation I've ever heard. It actually makes sense to me now.
post #67 of 83
I just had another thought while working today.

If its bad to read Harry Potter because of the witchcraft and so on, then isnt it bad to read stephen king because of the monsters and the evil that goes on, the romance novels because of the unmarried sex, the adultery, the majority of novels and books because of something that goes on in there that goes against the christian teachings. Why not ban all books altogether?
post #68 of 83
She (the OP--Pandybear I think?) that its not adult themed books she has a problem with but rather that its "children" who are practicing the sorcery in the title and that they are heavily read by children.
post #69 of 83
I started reading Stephen King when I was 11. And I remember Sweet Valley High which is geared towards younger girls - those aren't too innocent.
post #70 of 83
I did too.
And what about Enid Blyton books (that being English I am sure JK Rowling read and got inspiration from). They are chock full of fairies and witches.

In fact, I work at an antiquarian children's bookstore and I am sure that if we rid ourselves of books that contain children and magic, the shelves would be almost empty.
post #71 of 83
I love Harry Potter and bought several copies for out Child Life Dept. Re: "a lot of children who read them become curious about sorcery and want to find out about it or actively try to practice it", I have to respetfully disagree. I think most children - and I see kids of all ages in my office every day - understand the diefference between good and evil and won't be doing sorcery or associate him with Devil worship which seems what some people are afraid of. I know the Pope has a cat so he can't be all that bad a guy but gee, i think he should read the book before he starts bashing a popular book that actually teaches children how to be good citizens. (and maybe even good Christians). It is the oldest struggle on the planet - good vs evil - and I found the last one reminded me of the current struggle against terrorism. I even saw some concerns about the state being heavy handed in trying to keep us all safe. And I almost lost my sister in NYC on 9/11 so I understand the stakes!
post #72 of 83
oh I loved Enid Blyton - my favourites were the Faraway Tree series and the Naughtiest Girl in the School series!!!!! She was bad! but it wasn't her fault
post #73 of 83
IMHO, all the violent video games, movies, tv shows are more dangerous to children than Harry Potter. At least in those books, there are people struggling to make the right choices. Didn't Dumbledore say something like: It's not our ability but the choices we make that define who we are. Harry and friends have some tough choices, but they choose the good side, which isn't always easy.
post #74 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by bren.1
IMHO, all the violent video games, movies, tv shows are more dangerous to children than Harry Potter. At least in those books, there are people struggling to make the right choices. Didn't Dumbledore say something like: It's not our ability but the choices we make that define who we are. Harry and friends have some tough choices, but they choose the good side, which isn't always easy.
post #75 of 83
O_O I dont see why it is a bad thing that children might think magic and sorcery to be "good" its not like magic wands are avaliable for every child to have and its just illegal O_O now.. if JKR had made a book making children think ... POT was good... so more children started smoking this illegal substance, then it would be bad.... but I dont see how believing in magic and sorcery can be bad for a child???

Quote:
Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone in March blasted the book as an absurd distortion of history, saying it was full of cheap lies and Catholic bookstores should take it off their shelves.
And how does this fit in??? I mean.. an "absurt distorion of history" O_O ITS FICTION!!!!! ITS NTO SUPPOSED TO BE REAL O_O What.. in a story about a magical bunny that flies, the author is supposed to point out all the facts about the places the bunny went, and the history? "Oh bunny went to the briar patch and in this patch a bazillion years ago some stuff happened and it had to do with the church"

Some people have funky views about stuff. I say kids should be able to watch and read whatever they want within reason.. .you're not helping a seven year old child by restricting him to read telletubbies while outside in the real world, at school and outside, he is exposed to stuff much worse than television or harry potter could give. I bet they dont like the "disrespect to authority" that goes on in some of the books... well its like.. Hm.. ok.. so.. you're an 11 year old child who has been living in a cuboard and starved all your life, you still should love your aunt and uncle and do whatever they want, even though they abuse you. its like telling a child that has been beaten by her father to shut up and respect him and still give him love. People who run their lives by a book and what other people say seems silly to me. Sure, the bible has morals that should be taken into account and thought of and used.... but the thing is the bible was written in a time when thigns were very different, the times today account for a newer, updated bible it seems.... I mean... new york police officers dont follow the laws of 1837 now do they? For a small example I suppose. Now I'm not saying the bible is bad, or other things are bad, some of the stories they have in there are actually very good and can help you make good choices in life, but the other values of the bible and religions are sometimes very screwed up.. which is why I follow my own values, and I havent turned out to be bad.. I hate cigarettes, I cant stand alcohol, I dont go off having sex with strangers every day (only on weekends! *Joking*) I believe in the marriage thing when it comes to that.

I just dont see how a book could be harmful. I for one have turned out a much better person than what I could be for reading as much as I do. I know a majority of things I have learned in my lifetime came from reading books.

Quote:
i understand that harry potter is only fictional and mostly harmless but it is about sorcery and sorcery is witchcraft, something God is completely against.
I'm sorry, maybe I just dont understand... but are yousaying you like what God likes, andhate what God hates? Do most religious people do this? Because to me it is sounds like if there was a kid in school everyone liked, and everyone decided to like what the kid liked and hate what the kid hated, not I am not saying God is a kid... but there is a basic comparison between the two situations. As the kids were trying to be as much like the popular kid as they could, it sounds to me like some religious people are trying to be as like God as they possibly can. I'm sorry but thats another thing I dont believe in. I believe in being myself. I'm not going to hate something just because someone else says its wrong. If an old parchment written by Jesus (and proven to be written) or something showed up, saying God told him that in the year 2010 on August 17th everyone had to jump off of a 1000 foot bridge, I would not be at said 1000 foot bridge on August 17th, preparing to jump off of it.


I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I ddint mean to, I was trying to say what I wanted to say without offending.

Quote:
Lastly, what was called 'witchcraft' in ages past, can accurately be called herbalism, hortoculture, holistic medicine, and naturopathy today.
In ages past, anything that we, as humans, could not understand, or refused to understand was labeled witchcraft.
Eastern medicines (Holistic and Naturopathic) are now part of mainstream medicine, obviously there is nothing wrong with relying on what nature, God, has provided us, especially if modern medicine does more harm than good.
And I agree with this totally also. By going into a Wal-mart and buying a bottle of Tums or Tylenol, you are going against Gods word, because back in the bible's day that stuff wasnt around, and was concidered witchcraft. Take a tiny pill and instantly feel better? WITCHCRAFT! A large percentage of stuff that was called witchcraft by the bible is now acceptable accross the world.

What they need is to UPDATE THE BIBLE. People cant keep following rules of 2000 years ago today! Not like they should have a hip hop version of david and GOliath.. but some of the stuff like slavery in there is bad. Do people just skip over the part that says slavery is good and pretend it doesnt exist? Do they say, oh.. well God said we couldnt take anything and consume it and it would make me feel all better, so I'll just ignore my headache and not buy tylenol. Some of the stuff just seem so silly to me...
post #76 of 83
Quote:
I'm sorry, maybe I just dont understand... but are yousaying you like what God likes, andhate what God hates? Do most religious people do this? . . . it sounds to me like some religious people are trying to be as like God as they possibly can. I'm sorry but thats another thing I dont believe in. I believe in being myself.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I ddint mean to, I was trying to say what I wanted to say without offending.
It is obvious from the above statements that you are not a Christian. Those of us who are know that God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omnipowerful. Believers do strive to be like God in their daily lives by "liking what God likes and hating what God hates," but because we are human, flesh and blood, we always fail. That is why we rely on His abundant mercy to make us worthy to be in His presence.
How do you know what is right and what's wrong? how did you learn these things? I'd be willing to wager that your sense of morality stems at least in part from the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy.

Quote:
Sure, the bible has morals that should be taken into account and thought of and used.... but the thing is the bible was written in a time when thigns were very different, the times today account for a newer, updated bible it seems....
What they need is to UPDATE THE BIBLE. People cant keep following rules of 2000 years ago today! Not like they should have a hip hop version of david and GOliath.. but some of the stuff like slavery in there is bad. Do people just skip over the part that says slavery is good and pretend it doesnt exist?
My dear, the Bible is being updated, all the time. Scholars all over the world have been studying the Bible for over 2000 years (some of the books were written many years before Christ's lifetime) and it has been continually revised and republished. I'm afraid you're taking the word "slavery" out of the context of the Bible, much like some here are taking the word "witchcraft" out of the context of Harry Potter. Yes, slavery is mentioned many times in the Bible, because much of the Bible (esp the Old Testament) is a record of the times in which it was written - slavery was everywhere. But I don't believe you will find any passage where slavery is called "good." We do not just "skip over" that part or "pretend it doesn't exist" but we study the Word to put it in perspective. In the book of Exodus, when the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, God promises to deliver them OUT OF slavery. Yes, the things the Egyptians did to them were bad, but God did not condone or endorse any of it. "I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. I will free you from being slaves to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgement." Ex 6:6
Yes, the Bible was written in a time when day to day life was very different, but the lessons it has to teach are timeless, and just as applicable today as they were then. I'm sorry it is so confusing for you. It is difficult for me to understand some parts, and I know God knew what he was doing when he wrote it.
post #77 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb

Be realistic about this. Do you think flying on a broomstick and playing Quiddich is possible? Do you think HATS can TALK?
I do in my dreams
I respect everyone who believes in religion, i.. am catholic?

In my eyes religion only creates wars with another so i just believe that god doesnt want us to be all happy and that we have to fight for what we believe in? Because if he really cared about his pupils, the world wouldnt be like this now?
also religion is just something to make people believe.
IF you look back to how many years ago when the bible was born, do you think that there were presidents? These leaders made these rules up to keep the community so they had laws ect.
anyway i could go on and on and on about god but it was just my two cents worth.
post #78 of 83
Cassy--the part you quoted about distorting history is, I think, a reference to The DaVinci Code. I think it was brought up in this thread. That book really made the Catholic Church angry.
post #79 of 83
Bash me if you will, but are we reading way too much into this Harry Potter thing?
Isn't this just another contribution to the media hype that sells more books?
post #80 of 83
[quote=RicaLynn]How do you know what is right and what's wrong? how did you learn these things? I'd be willing to wager that your sense of morality stems at least in part from the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy.
QUOTE]

Or it could be from the basic tenet of Buddhism which is

"To do no evil;

To cultivate good;

To purify one's mind:

This is the teaching of the Buddhas.

--The Dhammapada"


Let's remember that morally, we don't have to be Christian to be Right or Wrong.

And I don't think that even many christians believe that God actually wrote the bible.
post #81 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
Let's remember that morally, we don't have to be Christian to be Right or Wrong.

And I don't think that even many christians believe that God actually wrote the bible.
Touche, I will concede point one above.

But anyone who claims to be a Christian and does NOT believe that the Bible is the true Word of God, isn't really a Christian at all. Written (mechanically) by man, yes, but inspired and instructed directly by God as His Word to all mankind.
post #82 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicaLynn
Touche, I will concede point one above.

But anyone who claims to be a Christian and does NOT believe that the Bible is the true Word of God, isn't really a Christian at all. Written (mechanically) by man, yes, but inspired and instructed directly by God as His Word to all mankind.
I have to question that statement. I was raised as a Roman Catholic, in a family with a lot of religious strife (part Irish). I attended a Catholic high school, and a Jesuit university, and always had the impression that the Roman Catholic Church put more emphasis on interpretations of the Bible, rather than on the Bible itself. Isn't the Church of Latter Day Saints classified as a "Christian" religion? Don't they put more emphasis on the Book of Mormon than on the Bible? And what about Jehovah's Witnesses?
post #83 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
I have to question that statement. I was raised as a Roman Catholic, in a family with a lot of religious strife (part Irish). I attended a Catholic high school, and a Jesuit university, and always had the impression that the Roman Catholic Church put more emphasis on interpretations of the Bible, rather than on the Bible itself. Isn't the Church of Latter Day Saints classified as a "Christian" religion? Don't they put more emphasis on the Book of Mormon than on the Bible? And what about Jehovah's Witnesses?
Mormons classify themselves as Christian, but they are not recognized by the vast majority of Christian denominations as Christian, because their teachings contradict those of "orthodox Christianity.
I've excerpted this from my Synod's website http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2239 for illustration:
Quote:
the official writings of Mormonism deny fundamental teachings of orthodox Christianity. For example, the Nicene Creed confesses the clear biblical truth that Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Trinity, is "of one substance with the Father." This central article of the Christian faith is expressly rejected by Mormon teaching -- thus undermining the very heart of the scriptural Gospel itself.
In short, Mormons do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, but just another, albeit very powerful, prophet (the parallel I have always drawn is to Islam - they do not deny the existence of Christ but do deny his deity and membership in the Holy Trinity)
Mormons DO place emphasis on the Book of Mormon, a book written by the prophets of their church, and many of the teachings in this book contradict "mainstream" Christianity (Catholicism, Orthodox and Protestant)
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