SPOILERS-Harry Potter discussion thread

[rosehawke]

Okay, the thing about Snape seeming not to want to hurt Harry, I would really like it to be for personal reasons, but ...

...somewhere overhead Snape was shouting, "Have you forgotten our orders? Potter belongs to the Dark Lord --- we are to leave him! Go! Go!

Page 603, American edition

This really sounds like Snape is just following orders, although I really hope not

... HOPEFULLY, it just fell in with what Snape wanted anyway.

Cindy

 

[milopixie]

Originally Posted by bren.1

I thought it would be Dumbledore who dies in this one. As long as he was around, Harry couldn't come into his full power, he'd always rely on Dumbledore and be in his shadow. I don't think Dumbledore's role is finished, either. A co-worker of mine said that he thinks Dumbledore will come back through the veil, leading an army. Remember the voices Harry and Luna heard?

I totally agree. Dumbledore's death now forces Harry to become a "man" at the age of 17 more than anything else. He now knows that there's no one left who can protect him as a parental figure. Did anyone else notice the difference between Harry's 2 meetings with the minister of magic? The 1st meeting at Christmas it's the minister who say's that Harry is "Dumbledore's man" and Harry agrees strongly, but I don't think he actually uses the words. But at the end when he's talking to the minister and the minister says so you really are it's Harry saying that he's Dumbledore's man through and through.

I also hope that Dumbledore does come back in some way or another in the final book, but I think he's definitley dead. Isn't Avada Kevadra irreversible? There's no way he could have survived. But in another sense, I had difficulty believing it was Dumbledore that went with Harry to the cave. There whole conversation in the office before they left just seemed a little off to me.

Oh well I guess we all have lots of time to work out our theories before the last book comes out, lol. 2 years of waiting and I finished reading it in about 5 hours!!!

 

[ali012281]

I think that maybe Dumbledore knew he was going to die? Perhaps it was all in his plan with Snape if Snape is infact good? Dumby seems to be the kind of person who would sacrifice himself for the greater good. Maybe that is why he was pleading with Snape.... maybe Snape didn't want to do it and he was pleading to continue with the entire plan?? Only way we'll ever find out is in book 7. *sigh*

 

[okeefecl]

Originally Posted by RoseHawke

This really sounds like Snape is just following orders, although I really hope not

... HOPEFULLY, it just fell in with what Snape wanted anyway.

Cindy

Well, in the chapter with Bella and Cissy (*love* that nickname), Bella asks Sanpe why he didn't kill Potter himself (I believe, my book's at home and I'm at work). Maybe there are other Death Eaters who would like to kill Harry and Snape is protecting him by saying that.

 

[pinkdaisy226]

Okay I just got done... the fact that Dumbledore would die was spoiled for me (on another messageboard, someone created a username "DumbledoreDies" and made blank posts, grrrr) but it still was upsetting to me.

I read the book too fast in my hurry to find out what was going on so I'll need to reread it in order to make better comments but...

-I wonder if Ginny and Harry are really over or not? I'm inclined to say not. And I'm pretty sure Ron and Hermione will be together... but you never know.
-Snogging (not snoggering) is more than kissing, basically they were making out. Just an FYI for whoever asked.
-I do believe that Dumbledore is dead, completely, and won't come back. After all, the author has stated that people must die in her book so I doubt she'd bring them back. Therefore, I expect we have more loved characters that we should expect to die.
-I wonder if it's necessarily true that either Harry or Voldemort have to die. After all, Dumbledore said that Harry has to do what he has to do regardless of the curse. I just really hope it's not Harry... it would be like cheating the audience, you know?
-I wonder if Harry really isn't coming back to school for year 7. What a complete departure for the series to be placed mainly outside of school. For that matter, I wonder if Hogwarts would reopen.
-I thought it was interesting to see characters in different lights: Hermione liking a boy, Ron hooking up with a girl, Draco not being a brat that was rude to everyone...
-I really wonder what Draco was up to. Was it just to kill Dumbledore, was that all he had to do? Or was there more to it that we don't know?

I had more thoughts but I forgot them while reading this thread...

 

[gilly]

I only got the book at lunchtime, I am on page 59 already

This means it's early to bed this week so that I can snuggle up and read!

 

[jcat]

Originally Posted by bren.1

I thought it would be Dumbledore who dies in this one. As long as he was around, Harry couldn't come into his full power, he'd always rely on Dumbledore and be in his shadow.

I also thought Dumbledore was trying to save Malfoy from becoming a murderer.

That's what I thought, too. I also think Snape will take over Dumbledore's role, i.e., he'll be the one who helps Harry defeat Voldemort. There's got to be a reason why Snape's character has been explored and developed more than others' since the very first book, and that Harry has been forced, through Snape's character, to not just idolize his father (or Sirius), but to acknowledge their weaknesses. Throughout the series, Dumbledore has emphasized his own shortcomings to Harry. He's now also seeing some "humanity" in Malfoy.
Snape has been nasty to Harry throughout, but he has also helped him on numerous occasions, for the "greater good".
Also: look at the love matches. Fleur and Tonks still love Bill and Lupin, despite their "werewolf contamination". Hermione and Ron, who exasperate each other, are obviously going to be together in the future. Luna and Neville, who both are portrayed as "outsiders", have been very staunch supporters who've always managed to come through when things get really tough.

 

[pinkdaisy226]

But if Snape is working for Voldemort and trying to help Malfoy, who's also workin for Voldemort... then how would he eventually help Harry?

 

[ali012281]

Do you think that Snape might have made an unbreakable promise to Dumbledore to defeat Voldy? But there is the conflict of interest because of the one with Cissy now but Snape CAN protect Malfoy at the same time as helping to defeat Voldy....

 

[rosehawke]

Originally Posted by pinkdaisy226

But if Snape is working for Voldemort and trying to help Malfoy, who's also workin for Voldemort... then how would he eventually help Harry?

By dying to save his life... just one possibility. I also think that Draco might have some role to play in defeating Voldemort. But these are just hunches based on what _I_ would do with the characters

.

Cindy

 

[jcat]

Now I'm back to R.A.B. - a (former) Death Eater, who destroyed part of Voldemort's soul. Why not Snape, also a former Death Eater, and Malfoy, a wannabe Death Eater, helping to destroy the Dark Lord? Narcissa obviously loves her son more than she worships Voldemort.

 

[pinkdaisy226]

Wait I don't understand... how are we assuming that Snape and Malfoy are trying to destroy the Dark Lord when all evidence points to the contrary? I do agree with you about Narcissa...

 

[jcat]

Originally Posted by pinkdaisy226

Wait I don't understand... how are we assuming that Snape and Malfoy are trying to destroy the Dark Lord when all evidence points to the contrary? I do agree with you about Narcissa...

Snape, despite having been a Death Eater, has, by his actions, always helped Harry to thwart Voldemort. Thanks to Moaning Myrtle, we know that Malfoy felt a lot conflict while acting as Dumbledore's would-be assassin, and his attempts (necklace/poisoned bottle) turned out to be half-hearted and unsuccessful.

 

[rosehawke]

We're not, we're "wishcasting"

. It would just be very cool for Malfoy to "turn" and to not think that as a reader of the series (and fan of the movies) that all the emotional baggage I've got invested in Snape as a major character is for nought. I'm not really sure why, despite all evidence to the contrary, I can't really hate Snape's character.

Umbridge, however, in OOTP

...

Cindy

 

[pinkdaisy226]

Perhaps. However...

Snape has NEVER been nice to Harry. And hello, he killed Dumbledore, doing Draco's job for him. So I really doubt that he's on Harry's side... but then again, it's possible that maybe Dumbledore wasn't wrong about him all along... maybe there's more about Snape we don't know.

As for Malfoy... isn't it possible that he was upset b/c he couldn't figure out IF he could do what he was supposed to do, rather than him being upset about having to do it? Granted, I totally flew through the book so maybe I missed it but it seemed to me that he was just stressed about what would happen if he failed...

BTW, when and how did Sirius die and when and why did Malfoy's father get thrown in jail? Did that happen in the last book and I just missed it? Wish I could find the last book, grrr...

 

[rosehawke]

Pinkdaisy, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Dumbledore IS a very likeable character, and to be so wrong about Snape would lessen his own character. I think if Dumbledore, ANYWHERE, had evidenced the least, teensy little bit of doubt about Snape I would be more accepting of him absolutely, positively, being a 100% dyed in the wool bad-guy.

Cindy

 

[pinkdaisy226]

Cindy... definitely. BUT so far the only "proof" we have from Dumbledore is that he thought Snape regretted his decision. So I REALLY hope we end up having more proof than that, otherwise what a let down.

On a similar note, am I the only one that wants to hit Snape over the end everytime I see him? Gah, he's such a.... dolt, for lack of a better word. Should professors really be allowed to favor the students in their house? Doesn't seem fair..

 

[rosehawke]

No, in the real world (at least in this country,) the parents would have so many complaints against him for such flagrant favoritism like that that he'd probably be in danger of losing his position.

Cindy

 

[pat]

I would go back to what someone mentioned...an arguement partially heard between Snape and Dumbledore...D's insistence that what he most needed when they returned after he retrieved the locket, was for Harry to go get Snape..and his saying to Snape - Please...

Somethings up there...a relationship/agreement we know nothing about..even given that we all make mistakes and D's says his when made are large ones...I think he knew what he was doing, and I think we still don't understand what drinking that liquid did to him (or what he saw...during the hallucinations or ?seeing into the future?)

 

[hissy]

Ok I just finished it and I cannot see a great wizard like Dumbledore being wrong about Snape and suspect the death might have been staged for Voldemort's benefit but I could be wrong-

Loved the book up to the end, then it just fell flat for me-