PeTa

sunlion

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 20, 2001
Messages
1,876
Purraise
3
Location
Arlington, TX
Is the Sierra Club problematic? I only know them from the wonderful pictures on their cards and calendars.
 

alexnell

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Apr 28, 2001
Messages
423
Purraise
3
Location
MN
I'm still ROTFLMAO over the idea of a "liberated" chihuahua trying to make it in the wild. Peta--yo queiro a clue.
 

hissy

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2001
Messages
34,872
Purraise
76
PETA had a table set up and I went over. The girl walked up to me, looking all somber and stuff and asked me if I had animals. I told her I did, told her how many and she looked so horrified when I told her I had a horse! She told me I needed to let my horse roam freely in the land, as did his ancestors. I pointed out to her, that if I opened up my gate and let my horse "roam freely" about the land, he would get hit by a logging truck on the highway! She then said I needed to take him back to Nevada (I told her he was a Mustang) and I guess she figured that all Mustangs come from Nevada, and I told her that if I did that, he would be subjected to not being able to find food, he would be open prey to any idiot with a gun, or a rancher who saw him as a threat. She got a glazed look in her eye and wandered away to look for another idiot like her......sheeshh! LOL My horse is on 3 acres, he is well taken care of, wants for nothing except maybe another horse to interact with, and hopefully one day soon he will have that again.
 

debby

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Nov 5, 2000
Messages
10,983
Purraise
4
Location
Iowa
Oh boy....I'm trying real hard to avoid topics where I could easily be flamed, but this one is one I have to speak out about.

I agree with Jin, totally. And to take it a step farther, I have a big problem with the models posing nude in support of not wearing furs. That sickens me. Even if I was against furs (which I am not) it would sicken me that they are trying to get their message across by posing nude,,,,give me a break!

Why am I not against furs, you ask??? Well, oh boy...here I go....

My husband is a trapper. And while I DO feel badly for the animals who get caught in these traps, it is 100% necessary.
In our area alone, the trappers have trapped 1,000's of coons...I know this for a fact, because I know how many my husband has gotten, and how many several of his friends, and fellow trappers have gotten.
If noone trapped these coon, the coon population would skyrocket....the farmers would have no chance whatsoever of producing a decent crop....the coons have to eat, you know...and they already destroy a certain portion, but it would be 10 times worse, not to mention, coons carry many diseases. And there would not even be enough food for all the coons and other small animals, if noone controled their population, they would continue to multiply, and thus, trust me on this...many, many coon would starve every year. Better to be caught in a trap, and die, than slowly starve to death, in my opinion. And, If the farmers crops are eaten by coons, that means no food for humans, and prices of corn and soybeans, etc, would skyrocket.
It is the same with many of the small animals, fox, etc, that he traps. It is no different than people hunting deer. Their population has to be kept under control. We have so many accidents here, from deer running out in front of cars, and if noone hunted any of them, the accidents would multiply rapidly!!!
Peta seems to think that human life is not nearly as important as animal life, or should be equal. Well, I'm sorry, that's just not the way God intended it to be, but that is just my opinion.
I'm all for people treating animals in a civilized way, and I hate the thought of some of these slaughter houses, where the animals are mistreated, that is horrid!!! But if it is done in the right way, then I am not against it. My brother raises cattle and pigs to butcher, but he treats them all very well.
I beleive God created some animals for pets, and some animals for food and clothing (fur coats for example)
If there was no other reason to kill some of these animals, except fpr their fur, then I would be totally against it, but when they need to be thinnned down for population control, then why not get the use of their fur??
I am sure I'm just asking for it, and I will not be in the majority here, but I am going to state my opinion nonetheless.
 

debby

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Nov 5, 2000
Messages
10,983
Purraise
4
Location
Iowa
And let me just add, that I totally respect the opinion of my vegetarian friends, they have a right to their choices. Just recently my step-daughter Brooke, has decided not to ever eat pork or beef again, because of the way they are treated, and I respect her decision. It's not mine, but I beleive everyone has a right to be different, and feel differently about things.

One of my best friends is a big Peta supporter, and she can't stand to be in the same room with my husband because of what he does, and she and I have had several debates about it, but in the end, we agreed to disagree, because we are both good people, with a right to our opinions, and you don't have to always see eye to eye, to love someone.
 

donna

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 2, 2001
Messages
1,588
Purraise
6
Well said Debby, to a point. Don't get angry as this is only my opinion. I am not here to flame anyone.

While I personally don't believe in killing animals for fur (especially the ones that have become extinct or near extinction), the way I go about it is I wear cloth coats. My feeling is if you are against it, don't buy furs. PETA's way of voicing their opinions on this issue is to throw animal blood on models who are only doing their jobs. The old addage of "Don't shoot the messenger" is appropriate here. If an animal is raised for food, then yes, why not use the fur.

I have seen the way some of the farmers who raise animals (case in point - calfs for veal) treat their calfs and I think it's deplorable. Making a calf stand in a small compartment the size of a small dog house for hours on end just so their flesh will be tender I think is cruel. Do I chastize the farmers? No, because it is their way of making a living to feed their families. I just don't eat veal. That is MY way of not contributing to the inhumanity of it.

As far as leg hold traps are concerned, I am dead set against them. Why? Because too many other innocent animals get hurt in the process, be it someones pet cat, dog, whatever. I also believe that leg hold traps SHOULD be banned. There are other traps out there that can be used to serve the purpose without injuring innocent animals that happen to get caught in one of these traps. Look at the "Have a Heart" traps for instance, to trap feral cats. There must be something similar out there for other wildlife.

That's just my two cents.
 

sunlion

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 20, 2001
Messages
1,876
Purraise
3
Location
Arlington, TX
I know a lot of people who hunt and fish, and I think that as long as they actually do it for a reason besides sport, that's okay. My father-in-law owns a fishing store and fishes quite a bit, but he always brings it home for food. He also owns several rifles and I know he's shot deer and turkey and antelope, but again it gets butchered for the table, not just to see if he is aim is good enough to get it. If you want to do that, go down to a range and use an inanimate target.

Once the animal is dead, I think it's only good stewardship to use as much of it as possible. Now I'm not much for decorating with antler heads or having lamps made out of the feet, but using the hide seems perfectly reasonable.

A friend of mine went to Russia for a few years, and she told me that everyone has a fur coat. Not as a fashion statement, but because it gets so cold that only a thick fur keeps you warm enough. So perhaps we are priviledged to even have this discussion? We live in a place where there are options and maybe there people who don't have the choice.

Controlling vermin is also different from sport hunting. Otherwise it's a public health issue. Just like that old gardening adage that a rose is a weed if it's in the wrong place, an animal is vermin if it overruns human habitation. The problem is to deal with overpopulation humanely and with as little "collateral damage" as possible. It's not an easy issue.
 

missyc

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
177
Purraise
2
Location
Tennessee
I don't know that much about PETA, but once they protested the Oscar Mayer Weiner Mobile being at the zoo in Knoxville, Tennessee, I then figured that they might have lost sight .
of what they started out to do.
 

hissy

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2001
Messages
34,872
Purraise
76
Although I don't disagree with the idea that trapping is sometimes the most humane thing for an animal, if you are talking about those leg traps I have to disagree with your opinion. When it comes to a leg trap, the animal is in such excruciating pain that it will chew it's leg off in order to escape. Most states have banned this sort of trap and replaced them with more humane ones. The problem is, the old style is still out there being used. I can't imagine a worse death for a critter then to slowly die from blood loss, shock and pain from these traps. I look for a day when all of this archaic torture devices are completely destroyed and replaced with more humane traps. I know that you can't control your husband Debby any more than anyone else can control their mate, if he is using these clamping traps, you might try suggesting to him that there are other ways out there besides leg traps to trap all these coons.

But since I rescue baby coons every year and used to work with a wildlife biologist as well, I have to say, that I believe because we have encroached on wildlife and their territory and driven a lot of the larger prey animals away, now we are paying the price for it in the overpopulation that is now occuring and the fact that the animals are simply trying to survive in larger numbers than nature intended them to reach. If that means they are raiding our food supply and killing our chickens, other means need to be reached to solve the problem than allowing leg traps to still be used.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #32

airprincess

TCS Member
Thread starter
Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Messages
4,699
Purraise
1
Location
Maryland
Gotta say, I'm with MA. I'm not an extremist that has a problem with hunting or trapping but I do have a problem when it's done in away that could be described as torture. You didn't say what kind of traps your husband uses Debby so this is not directed at you. You brought up a good point about trapping and this is just my .02 cents about the subject.
 

sunlion

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 20, 2001
Messages
1,876
Purraise
3
Location
Arlington, TX
I'm sorry if it sounded like I advocate leg traps, I think finding alternatives is part of finding a humane solution.

What about a catch and release program of neutering, like some people do with ferals? Probably too costly and you run the risk of changing the animals' personalities (male aggessive behavior esp. which often serves a purpose beyond reproduction) or accidentally decimating a local population. And it wouldn't actually act as a predator does to keep the other animals healthy by removing the sick

Any other ideas?
 

debby

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Nov 5, 2000
Messages
10,983
Purraise
4
Location
Iowa
I just want to add that I do agree with you all on the leg hold traps. I asked him, and he says he has many different kinds of traps, I'm not sure what they all are, but he said that the animals he traps don't suffer anymore than a mouse does in a mousetrap, in otherwords, it dies pretty much instantly. I know he does have a few leg hold traps, and I wish he didn't, but he says if the right size is used, that they don't get caught by their legs, and that he hasn't had one incident this year where a leg has been chewed off.
Also, he sets alot of his traps in water, and way out in areas where there aren't any pets around, and he hasn't caught any feral cats or wild dogs so far, and I hope that never happens!!!

You all had some very good opinions, and it is refreshing to discuss something like this, without anyone being flamed!
 

hissy

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2001
Messages
34,872
Purraise
76
then I hope he is a responsible trapper and checks those leg traps daily so the animal doesn't suffer longer than it has to.
 

Anne

Site Owner
Staff Member
Admin
Joined
Oct 23, 2000
Messages
40,207
Purraise
6,095
Location
On TCS
Back to PETA - I try to make a distinction between animal rights and animal welfare. What is very important to me is animal welfare.

I belive that we should do all we can to provide all animals with the best living condition and prevent as much pain and suffering as possible. This means better conditions for farm animals, cutting down on experiments (making sure only those that are truly necessary are carried out) and improving living conditiond for lab animals, improving the life quality of pet animals and feral animals (like taking care of feral cats, making declawing illegal etc) and so on. I believe an amimal's quality of life is important and I want to save them from suffering.

I disagree with PETA because they fight for animals rights rather than animal welfare. Some of the issues they bring up are philosophical and unpractical and I feel that there's still so much to be done for animal welfare that it's a waste of energy.

By the way, I really enjoy the discussion!
 

sunlion

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 20, 2001
Messages
1,876
Purraise
3
Location
Arlington, TX
Thank you, Anne, for making that distinction. I think it's easy for us animal lovers to lose sight of that in our concern over the conditions some animals endure.
 

kittyfoot

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Dec 25, 2000
Messages
690
Purraise
1
Location
Moncton,New Brunswick,CANADA
Just an aside about fur coats....in the words of Andy Capp (Brit cartoon carrier)to his wife Flo: "Think woman;if fur coats are so warm why do cats always sit near a fire?"
:tounge2:
 

nena10

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Apr 5, 2001
Messages
1,436
Purraise
1
Location
Salt Lake City
Hissy, did you tell the PETA girl about your cats and how you rescue wildlife? I wonder what she would think of that?

I looked at the veggie recepies and most look very disgusting! I've tried tofu and I didn't like it. I support PETA in some cases, but I've been raised on meat all my life. I love a juicy steak or a hamburger. And chicken! The only time I sacraficed red meat is during Lent. I really love barbeque ribs. I don't mind people hunting as long as its for food like the Native Americans used to do.
I also like rodeos. I've been to some and I don't see anything wrong with it. And what is wrong with milk or dairy products? You don't kill the cow or goat to get to the milk. Or wool. You don't kill the sheep to get the wool. And eggs? I mean you ara not killing a chick. There are many chicken in the world and their are tons of cows. And did you guys take a look at the part where we can make dogs and cats into vegetarians? I am sorry, but cats are carnivorus! I don't think their stomach could handle it. Maybe a dog, but he needs alot of food. Meat and veggies. Next thing they will probably do is have all the cats, dogs, bears, and other zoo animals become vegetarians. I can see a lion eating grass.
 
Top