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This is me!!! What Next????

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Hi everone,

My name is faye, I have two delightful female Bengal cats, one is a throwback cross look and the other is a true bengal, I found out that 11 years ago one of the mothers had a bit of a slip up and fell pregnant by a tortie and this is where the throwback came from. Shame because although they are classed as pure breds on their certificates unfortunatly to me they are not. Amber and Angel (the cats) came from a cattery in the bedfordshire area of england which i am glad to say I have had closed down since, my poor little girls were clinging on for dear life when I got there from all the things but CAT FLUE.......I could'nt believe my eyes when all the cats they were looking after for people on holidays etc had the symptoms of the same infection, I got the RSPCA involved as soon as I got my girls home and with in three days all the cats had been moved to a new cattery, being treated and tis place was officially closed.
In 1998 I trained as a veterinary surgeon at one of englands finest universities by 2002 i was able to go out to work as a vet after having my first child and completeing my course.
: unfortunatly my health took a turn for the worse 8 months ago and i am now no longer able to stand for long periods and have had to give up this career. I am now retrained as a recruitment consultant and spend most of my time at home with my family.
I am now looking into breeding bengals and have a litter on the way which will not be pedigree licensed as i do not feel they are pure although there father is. My one problem that I have is how to handel the kittens because I have only had to help a litter be born once and that was early 1999 whilst i was training, i really can't remember and if I do it wrong my darling angel may eat her young.
Any Ideas let me know.
Hope to speak soon.
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post #2 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by playbunnyjinx
My name is faye, I have two delightful female Bengal cats, one is a throwback cross look and the other is a true bengal, I found out that 11 years ago one of the mothers had a bit of a slip up and fell pregnant by a tortie and this is where the throwback came from. Shame because although they are classed as pure breds on their certificates unfortunatly to me they are not. Amber and Angel (the cats) came from a cattery in the bedfordshire area of england which i am glad to say I have had closed down since, my poor little girls were clinging on for dear life when I got there from all the things but CAT FLUE.......I could'nt believe my eyes when all the cats they were looking after for people on holidays etc had the symptoms of the same infection, I got the RSPCA involved as soon as I got my girls home and with in three days all the cats had been moved to a new cattery, being treated and tis place was officially closed. In 1998 I trained as a veterinary surgeon at one of englands finest universities by 2002 i was able to go out to work as a vet after having my first child and completeing my course. unfortunatly my health took a turn for the worse 8 months ago and i am now no longer able to stand for long periods and have had to give up this career. I am now retrained as a recruitment consultant and spend most of my time at home with my family.
I am now looking into breeding bengals and have a litter on the way which will not be pedigree licensed as i do not feel they are pure although there father is. My one problem that I have is how to handel the kittens because I have only had to help a litter be born once and that was early 1999 whilst i was training, i really can't remember and if I do it wrong my darling angel may eat her young.
Hello, Faye and welcome to TCS. There are a few Bengal breeders here so hopefully, someone more knowledgable about them will come along and address your breed-specific questions, but there were some things in your post I wanted to ask ...

How did your girl come to be pregnant? Who is the sire of this litter? Why can they not be pedigree-registered?
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
As far as i am aware they are not actual pedigrees, the cattery I got them from was not shall we say repuitable as you probably have already read, I saved them on the off chance although I did want cats, as so I could not register the kittens as such which is a shame but unavoidable. The sire of the litter was my friends bengal who I am proud to say is a pedigree without a doubt. I already have homes for 9 kittens so I am making sure that none of them will be with out a family. Although she does not seem to be carrying that many I would prefer to cover myself enough to make sure.
Thamk you for asking.
post #4 of 22
Are you interested in becoming a registered bengal breeder?

If so first step really is to get your two cats fixed, and a get a pedigree. Because otherwise it's sadly classed as BYB.
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats
Are you interested in becoming a registered bengal breeder?

If so first step really is to get your two cats fixed, and a get a pedigree. Because otherwise it's sadly classed as BYB.

Actually dear its not because my cats have certificates thank you very much!!! And in case it escaped your notice i am a qualified vet I may not practise but I'm not stupid. Backyard breeding indeed.
post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by playbunnyjinx
Actually dear its not because my cats have certificates thank you very much!!! And in case it escaped your notice i am a qualified vet I may not practise but I'm not stupid. Backyard breeding indeed.
If they did not come from a reputable breeder...how do you know these cats heritage and thus..whether they are breeder quality?

Katie
post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNR1
If they did not come from a reputable breeder...how do you know these cats heritage and thus..whether they are breeder quality?

Katie

The breeder that I got them from made a big mistake of letting all the cats in their cattery get ill. I have heard since that some of the kittens sold from there had false certificates so i had mine checked and sure enough they are real. Don't worry i've done my homework.!!!
post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
I would appreciate some help on the issues i have raised and not digs on my little girls as i find it quite upsetting. I know what background they have on their family otherwise I would not have found out about the throw back issue.

Thank you for the help and decent questions from members
.
post #9 of 22
I'm sure it was very hard for you to give up your practice as a vet. I wish all the best in your new endeavors. I'm sure you'll be one of the best Bengal breeders around! Good luck with all.
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlmcats
I'm sure it was very hard for you to give up your practice as a vet. I wish all the best in your new endeavors. I'm sure you'll be one of the best Bengal breeders around! Good luck with all.
Thank you! it was hard but if i had carried on i would have been dangerous to pets. I am however not looking to breed the girls i have got, the litter that my Angel is having is to help her with her surragote's in the future which i am also looking at doing, also its a good job that the sire was a pure breed because it was a bit of a misshap ......i know im gonna get flack for that but the kittens have already got great homes and i've been to see all of them.

They are indoor cats and do not like going out, they sit at the back door and cry to get in.

Your a star*
post #11 of 22
I'm confused here.

"the litter that my Angel is having is to help her with her surragote's in the future"

You are allowing a cat to deliver a litter of kittens only for the reason of what??? Providing nursing capabilities for orphaned or otherwise abandoned kittens??
post #12 of 22
I just wanted to point out, that before you think people are attacking your cats' pedigrees, you were the one that said,

Quote:
Shame because although they are classed as pure breds on their certificates unfortunatly to me they are not.
Quote:
I am now looking into breeding bengals and have a litter on the way which will not be pedigree licensed as i do not feel they are pure although there father is.
So basically, you said that you don't think they are purebred. So why breed them?
post #13 of 22
Heather?

I just wanted to say your cats are gorgeous!
post #14 of 22
So if you aren't backyard breeding, what is your breeding prefix?
post #15 of 22
Quote:
And in case it escaped your notice i am a qualified vet I may not practise but I'm not stupid. Backyard breeding indeed.
Quote:
My one problem that I have is how to handel the kittens because I have only had to help a litter be born once and that was early 1999 whilst i was training, i really can't remember and if I do it wrong my darling angel may eat her young.
I am very confused. You are a vet,and you do not know how to handle the birth of pet animals.
About the backyard breeding. I think you had better look up the description of what a backyard breeder is.
Ethical breeders have litters of kittens to improve the breed. Are you breeding to improve the bengal breed,or just breeding for the fun of it.
Do you know anything about the bengal breed? What are the faults in the breed and are you breeding to correct whose faults. Does the stud compliment your female,or did you just pick a male because it has papers.
Just because a cat has papers,does not mean it is worthy of breeding.
Cats are starting to have genetic problems. If your cats came from a cattery that was not good,how do you know if you are not passing genetic problems onto the kittens.

I have a male bengal and his prodigy can not be registered. He is a pet and sold as a pet not a breeder. He was neutered and I send proof of that fact and only then did I receive his papers.
I think you have to ask yourself,what makes you different then anybody else who want to breed their common moggie just because they make pretty kittens.
To breed without any thought to breed standards,you are basically ruining a breed of cat.

I am sure you are a good person and have your cats best interest at heart,but I also believe you do not really understand why you breeding these cats is wrong.
post #16 of 22
Bullit brings up excellent points. The ethical breeder has a set goal in mind and has a viable plan firmly in place before choosing which cats to mate. You can enhance a certain genetic trait by pairing cats that can achieve that goal but on the other hand, you can also enhance any negative genetic traits if you don't know what you are doing or why you are doing it. The ethical breeder will always be focused on positively contributing to the betterment of the breed as a whole.

I do feel compelled to say that while on the surface it may seem as though we are "taking digs", we are in fact, not doing any such thing. We are merely attempting to learn more about you, your cats, your animal husbandry experience, your goals and what you hope to contribute ... not only to your chosen breed, but also to the breeder membership here at TCS. This is a two-way street. Not only do you come away perhaps having learned from us, we can also perhaps learn something from you. And if we can all take something positive with us as we go about our daily lives which actually is ~helpful~ to our cats or their care, then that's just icing on the cake.

That all now being said ... why don't we start over?

~gf~
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatherRagan
I just wanted to point out, that before you think people are attacking your cats' pedigrees, you were the one that said,





So basically, you said that you don't think they are purebred. So why breed them?

Did any one actually read my last message in this forum?????????????????????
post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullit
I am very confused. You are a vet,and you do not know how to handle the birth of pet animals.
About the backyard breeding. I think you had better look up the description of what a backyard breeder is.
Ethical breeders have litters of kittens to improve the breed. Are you breeding to improve the bengal breed,or just breeding for the fun of it.
Do you know anything about the bengal breed? What are the faults in the breed and are you breeding to correct whose faults. Does the stud compliment your female,or did you just pick a male because it has papers.
Just because a cat has papers,does not mean it is worthy of breeding.
Cats are starting to have genetic problems. If your cats came from a cattery that was not good,how do you know if you are not passing genetic problems onto the kittens.

I have a male bengal and his prodigy can not be registered. He is a pet and sold as a pet not a breeder. He was neutered and I send proof of that fact and only then did I receive his papers.
I think you have to ask yourself,what makes you different then anybody else who want to breed their common moggie just because they make pretty kittens.
To breed without any thought to breed standards,you are basically ruining a breed of cat.

I am sure you are a good person and have your cats best interest at heart,but I also believe you do not really understand why you breeding these cats is wrong.

I think you have brought up excellent points but as i have already said my two cats are not to be used as breeding. This particular incident was completely accidental, they are as i have said indoor cats. I am looking into breeding bengals and do believe that the breed can be improved and i also do need to learn some more about them.
As for my veterinary experience I have not actually practised for over a year now and I just can not remember some of the things I need to know after all I am only human.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicideCabbage
I'm confused here.

"the litter that my Angel is having is to help her with her surragote's in the future"

You are allowing a cat to deliver a litter of kittens only for the reason of what??? Providing nursing capabilities for orphaned or otherwise abandoned kittens??

I would like her to look after surragotes yes but as i have said this particular litter was an accident im not understanding why people arn't getting that picture.
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef
Bullit brings up excellent points. The ethical breeder has a set goal in mind and has a viable plan firmly in place before choosing which cats to mate. You can enhance a certain genetic trait by pairing cats that can achieve that goal but on the other hand, you can also enhance any negative genetic traits if you don't know what you are doing or why you are doing it. The ethical breeder will always be focused on positively contributing to the betterment of the breed as a whole.

I do feel compelled to say that while on the surface it may seem as though we are "taking digs", we are in fact, not doing any such thing. We are merely attempting to learn more about you, your cats, your animal husbandry experience, your goals and what you hope to contribute ... not only to your chosen breed, but also to the breeder membership here at TCS. This is a two-way street. Not only do you come away perhaps having learned from us, we can also perhaps learn something from you. And if we can all take something positive with us as we go about our daily lives which actually is ~helpful~ to our cats or their care, then that's just icing on the cake.

That all now being said ... why don't we start over?

~gf~

Thankyou for this message. As i have said i became quite ill last year so I have forgotton much of my learnings and need to start again, I have been told that if i went back to uni i could complete a course in a few months as it would bring back to me everything i learnt but as i also said i can not stand for long periods.
I know that people are trying to help I just find it irritating that know one seems to understand.
post #21 of 22
I would advise against keeping her as a surrogate wet nurse. Producing milk takes more out of the female cat than being pregnant and actually having the kittens. To keep her in a lactating state(is that even possible without a constant stream of kittens to nurse?) would be a huge detriment to her health. My best advice is get the kittens weaned, and get her spayed. Keep her away from any intact males until she is spayed as she can get pregnant again shortly after giving birth.

If you truly want to begin breeding Bengals my advice is research, research, research. Take your time finding the perfect breeder for you that has the same goals you do, take your time finding the perfect stud and queen to be your new breeders parents. Bloodlines are important, but you really need the whole package, health(check to make sure the kittens parents, grandparents, etc have been screened for HCM), temperment, bloodlines, and of course get as close as possible to the Bengal Breed Standard. Visit the cattery you choose to get your breeder from. Ask tons of questions, make sure the breeder knows what she/he is doing. Attend lots of cat shows, this helped me immensely to discover the lines I wanted to work with.

Welcome to the forum!

(as a side note, a vet I worked for had a disability and had to use a cane/walker, he too could not stand for long, he worked strictly on ultrasounds, he could sit through the entire thing and still practice veterinary medicine. Just a tip in case you hadn't considered that possibility)
post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Payge
I would advise against keeping her as a surrogate wet nurse. Producing milk takes more out of the female cat than being pregnant and actually having the kittens. To keep her in a lactating state(is that even possible without a constant stream of kittens to nurse?) would be a huge detriment to her health. My best advice is get the kittens weaned, and get her spayed. Keep her away from any intact males until she is spayed as she can get pregnant again shortly after giving birth.

If you truly want to begin breeding Bengals my advice is research, research, research. Take your time finding the perfect breeder for you that has the same goals you do, take your time finding the perfect stud and queen to be your new breeders parents. Bloodlines are important, but you really need the whole package, health(check to make sure the kittens parents, grandparents, etc have been screened for HCM), temperment, bloodlines, and of course get as close as possible to the Bengal Breed Standard. Visit the cattery you choose to get your breeder from. Ask tons of questions, make sure the breeder knows what she/he is doing. Attend lots of cat shows, this helped me immensely to discover the lines I wanted to work with.

Welcome to the forum!

(as a side note, a vet I worked for had a disability and had to use a cane/walker, he too could not stand for long, he worked strictly on ultrasounds, he could sit through the entire thing and still practice veterinary medicine. Just a tip in case you hadn't considered that possibility)

Thank you for the help, I am currently looking at all the options and doing research into bengals and their backgrounds, if im going to breed i need to do it properly.
I hadn't considered ultrasounds and sitting down areas of the proffession, i suppose I got ill and gave up, maybe ill go and do a course to refresh all i knew and get back to helping animals.
Thank you again
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