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Kansas schools say evolution is impossible

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/168/story_16853_1.html

It seems that they are missing the point of calling something a theory. It doesn't make it a fact, and it doesn't make it something you wouldn't teach.
post #2 of 14
What idiots! Evolution is impossible ? What do they base this on, lol Oh gosh those poor kids there what are they learning in school there? This just makes me so angry I am tongue tied.
post #3 of 14
That's what happens when things are run by idiots whose only goal is to force their beliefs (however misguided) on other people.

On the less "extreme" end of the spectrum, I know that a lot of people want schools to teach both evolution and creationism because evolution is just a theory... therefore not more valid than creationism.
What they fail to understand is that science is all about theories. First you observe what is going on, you make a theory to explain it and as you make more observations, you adjust or change the theory.
The reason why scientists usually believe in teaching evolution is because it's the best theory to explain the observations.

I remember someone arguing to me that biology books should have stickers warning students that evolution is just a theory. With that logic, science books should be covered with stickers!

I say teach students to think critically and to understand that science is always changing with new discoveries (and therefore they should not take everything they learn as the absolute unchanging truth) but keep religion out of science class. Good scientific theories should be based on scientific evidence and the Bible is NOT scientific evidence. It's religious evidence and belongs in religion class.
post #4 of 14
My mother grew up during the war, as a Unified (Holy Roller) Church member.
Creationism was so deeply imbedded in her that she was nearly failed out of Medical School for her refusal to grasp or even study the theory of Evolution and it's conected sciences.

They are not doing these kids any favors.
post #5 of 14
I think the argument could be made that some omnipotent, omnipresent deity is also "biologically, genetically, mathematically, chemically, metaphysically and etc. wildly and utterly impossible". Therefore the idea that some big guy up in the sky just blinked and created the universe because, for lack of a better explanation, He was bored simply cannot be accepted as fact, and thus this theory should not be taught in school.
post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
I think the argument could be made that some omnipotent, omnipresent deity is also "biologically, genetically, mathematically, chemically, metaphysically and etc. wildly and utterly impossible". Therefore the idea that some big guy up in the sky just blinked and created the universe because, for lack of a better explanation, He was bored simply cannot be accepted as fact, and thus this theory should not be taught in school.
I second that. And meanwhile prayer isn't allowed in schools. What a hypocritical bunch!
post #7 of 14
Are school board officials elected in Kansas?
post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 
Jcat, I don't know, but let's hope they elect better ones if so. Apparently, a few years ago the State school board deleted most references to evolution, I guess in their state standards. They got a lot of criticism and modified their position a little.

I agree with both marie-p and Heidi, teach students to think, and they can decide for themselves whether an omnipotent life force exists, since that is also a theory we can't prove.
post #9 of 14
Ok It's a theory..... there are missing pieces, but the evidence I've seen is pretty compelling. I have problems with school boards, who are elected in most areas of the country choosing what is fact and what is theory. These people are not experts, and have little to no formal training in Anthropology. They don't know how or what to look for, therefore they have no right to say a theory is wrong. These kids are going to miss out on a big part of thier science education. When they get to college they are going to have to study evolution endepth. Teach it to the kids and let the kids decide for themselves.
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess
Ok It's a theory..... there are missing pieces, but the evidence I've seen is pretty compelling. I have problems with school boards, who are elected in most areas of the country choosing what is fact and what is theory. These people are not experts, and have little to no formal training in Anthropology. They don't know how or what to look for, therefore they have no right to say a theory is wrong. These kids are going to miss out on a big part of thier science education. When they get to college they are going to have to study evolution endepth. Teach it to the kids and let the kids decide for themselves.
I'm a teacher working in an area where school board members are appointed civil servants - give me electees any time!!! If I ever go postal, the current state education minister would be a terrific target. Just being paranoid - with that statement I'll probably be put on some list of potential terrorists. . Big Brother!!!
post #11 of 14
Quote:
the Bible is NOT scientific evidence. It's religious evidence and belongs in religion class.
As far as that opinion goes, there are many who would disagree with it. Every coin has a flip side:

Here are some sites that discuss the Bible relating to scientific evidence:

http://www.hannity.com/forum/archive...hp/t-1667.html
Does Archeology PROVE the BIBLE?

Yes, quite a number of Biblical structures have been excavated. Some of the most interesting are the following:


The base of the Tower of Babel in Babylon where language was confused (Genesis 11:1-9).
The palace at Jericho where Eglon, king of Moab, was assassinated by Ehud (Judges 3:15-30).
The east gate of Shechem where Gaal and Zebul watched the forces of Abimelech approach the city (Judges 9:34-38).
The Temple of Baal/El-Berith in Shechem, where funds were obtained to finance Abimelech's kingship and where the citizens of Shechem took refuge when Abimelech attacked the city (Judges 9:4, 46-49).
The pool of Gibeon where the forces of David and Ishbosheth fought during the struggle for the kingship of Israel (2 Samuel 2:12-32).
The Pool of Heshbon, likened to the eyes of the Shulammite woman (Song of Songs 7:4).
The royal palace at Samaria where the kings of Israel lived (1 Kings 20:43; 21:1, 2; 22:39; 2 Kings 1:2; 15:25).
The Pool of Samaria where King Ahab's chariot was washed after his death (1 Kings 22:29-38).
The water tunnel beneath Jerusalem dug by King Hezekiah to provide water during the Assyrian siege (2 Kings 20:20; 2 Chronicles 32:30).
The royal palace in Babylon where King Belshazzar held the feast and Daniel interpreted the handwriting on the wall (Daniel 5).
The royal palace in Susa where Esther was queen of the Persian king Xerxes (Esther 1:2; 2:3, 5, 9, 16).
The royal gate at Susa where Mordecai, Esther's cousin, sat (Esther 2:19, 21; 3:2, 3; 4:2; 5:9, 13; 6:10, 12).
The Square in front of the royal gate at Susa where Mordecai met with Halthach, Xerxes' eunuch (Esther 4:6).
The foundation of the synagogue at Capernaum where Jesus cured a man with an unclean spirit (Mark 1:21-28) and delivered the sermon on the bread of life (John 6:25-59).
The house of Peter at Capernaum where Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law and others (Matthew 8:14-16).
Jacob's well where Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman (John 4).
The Pool of Bethesda in Jerusalem, where Jesus healed a crippled man (John 5:1-14).
The Pool of Siloam in Jerusalem, where Jesus healed a blind man (John 9:1-4).
The tribunal at Corinth where Paul was tried (Acts 18:12-17).
The theater at Ephesus where the riot of silversmiths occurred (Acts 19:29). - See picture at top
Herod's palace at Caesarea where Paul was kept under guard (Acts 23:33-35).
Author: Bryant Wood of Associates for Biblical Research

AND A COUPLE OF ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://www.creationsciencemovement.com/faqs.html

http://www.finalfrontier.org.uk/creation.htm
post #12 of 14
Interesting discussion you linked to, debating whether or not the Bible can be taken as scientific proof. Seems there was only one person there saying that it is, though.

Proving that a place existed doesn't prove the Bible to be any more real or unreal, nor does it make the Bible any type of scientific proof. It proves that there is a historical context. Mount Olympus is a real place too. So are many of the cities where Greek Mythological stories were set. Does that make the Greek Gods real?

The point isn't that the Bible or Creationism is real or not real, it is that the premise that the Bible is scientific evidence because some of the places mentioned were later found by archeologists isn't logical, nor is it proof. The premise of that thread refutes that better than I:

Quote:
A Concise Introduction to Logic
Hurley
8th Edition
Pg 566

Quote:
Before inquiring further into the need for evidence, however, we must first investigate what counts as evidence. Does the testimony of authorities count as evidence? What about ancient authorities? Does the Bible count as evidence? The answer is that scientific hypotheses are about the natural world, so only observations of the natural world count as evidence. Every scientific experiment is a question the experimenter asks of the world, and the result of that experiment is nature's reply. The problem with the testimony of authority is that we have no certain knowledge that the authority is correct in his or her assessment. The same holds true of the Bible. We have no way of knowing whether what the Bible says about the natural world is true. If someone should reply that the Bible is divinely inspired, then the obvious reply is, How do we know that? Do we have any observational evidence for it? Appeals to authority figures and the Bible amount to passing the explanatory buck.
post #13 of 14
Back to the idea of evolution not being taught....

The funny thing is that those very same people who don't want children to learn about evolution probably accept the idea that bugs become resistant to commonly used poisons across time, that antibiotics that are used too freely cause bacteria to become resistant, that humans in certain places develop resistance to common diseases (e.g. sickel cells make people immune to malaria). All of this is evolution! I don't understand why this is seen as threatening to Christian ideology!
post #14 of 14
http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/06....ap/index.html

It's an issue in Pennsylvania too, but this time for "Intelligent Design" to be taught in science...
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