What is your opinion on this?

Misplaced Loyalties
Tuesday, December 11, 2001

The front-page story (Tribune, Nov. 30) concerning a young Lance Cpl. Ajmal Achekzai raising the Stars and Stripes in Afghanistan was heartwarming and a tribute to all foreign-born, naturalized citizens. As I read the story I was touched with what Ajmal's father endured to get his family to America and freedom.
However, the fathers's statement in the last paragraph crystallizes what is wrong with our immigration system. The father's statement concerning his homeland, Afghanistan, was: "That's my first country. The United States is my second country."
What? Are naturalized citizens no longer required to pledge allegiance to America? If push comes to shove, is he American or Afghan?

GREG CHILDS
Kaysville


I personally didn't like his statement. Although I am a citizen of the United States, my first country is Mexico. I am loyal to both countries. I pledge Allegiance to both countries. There is nothing worng with the immigration system. The americans need to realize this.

I personally, can understand where the guy is coming from. You can have love for both the country you live in and the one you're from, but loyalty has to lie with either one or the other in the face of conflict. This would be an especially sensitive thing right now i would think, considering that the men who took over one of the planes on Sept 11 were living in Florida, but very obviously loyal to their country of origin. I think its scary for people to think the 'enemy' could be residing in their very own country. To pledge Allegiance, to me, means you place all of your loyalty to your Country. Any other thoughts or opinions on this?

but I feel like you should live whereever your first loyality lies. If you move to another country, because you want a better life for yourself, and know that you can attain it there, because of the opportunities that are afforded you, then IMO then your loyality should be with that country.

If I had to move to korea to be with the SO for 2 years, my loyality would still be with the USA, because this is my home, and I wouldn't have any choice but to follow him, and I plan to return. If I choose to leave, and move somewhere else and take advantage of all the freedoms that are offered, I think in return I owe that place my loyality. At least as long as I'm living there.

Example, if I move to Canada because they have better health care, and I get a better job than I can in the USA, and I want to take advantage of all the wonderful thing that their government offers to immigrants, I feel I owe them my loyality first, as long as I continue to live there.

I guess it bothers me that people would be quick to cash in on all the good things, but not give at least their loyality back (and I mean in the #1 position). If this man has a better life here than there, and is now able to give his daughters the opportunity to go to school, to work, to leave the house, then in my opinion his first loyality should be to the place that made that possible. And if it's not, then why not move back to where your #1 loyality lies.

this is just my opinion and I hope I don't get flamed for it.

Colby,

Amen to that!

You said exactly what I was thinking, of course you're able to word it much better than me, as usual

No flaming from here, Airprincess!! I totally agree with what you said. I don't think I could add anything without sounding redundant.

Well thought out, well said and big BRAVO ( sorry all out of Blob-O-Ramas at the moment)

Well put, airprincess. I personally think we should close our borders and crack down on immigration violations. Kick everyone out that doesn't belong here and then start on those that don't want to be loyal Americans or don't want to have America as their "first country." Flame away, folks! That's just the way I feel. The time for the huddled masses is long past.

Exactly KrazyKat...show no mercy!

Well lord knows if any of us Americans moved to another country and became a citizen of that country, we would lose our American rights. Why should it be different to anyone else? If you live here, you better damn well let your FIRST and only loyalty lie here. I am so sick of immigrants who come here and take minumum wage jobs so they don't have to pay income taxes, then send part of their income back to their family in a foreign country. Honestly, they need to be paying into America.

Now I am sure I am going to get hell for this post, but I really don't give a darn.

Not sure if this will even go along with the topic, but we shouldn't force international citizens to pledge American. Yes, I realize that they came here on their own free will, and they chose to live here. It's like a few months ago with the China incident ..... We have a Chinese person who works on our shift, and if they would've gone to war, she would've supported China because that is her "home." Not that I agree, but what can you do? I do agree that the borders should be shutdown or screened for the illigal immigrants coming into this country, though.

I don't know ........ hard topic to talk about!

I think both the US and Canada are wonderful countries to live in, and it would be nice to keep them that way...if that means closing borders and getting rid of the disloyal, so be it. If people in other countries believe they can get something here that they can't get where they are, maybe its time for them to start bringing about change in their own area. It really makes me mad when people come to our country (same goes for the US) and take advantage of the benefits such as medicare, employment opportunities, grants and social assistance programs, and then have the nerve to complain about the system that makes it all possible. If you choose to live in a country because of what it can offer you, you darn well better be absolutely loyal to it. Harsh, I know, but the truth.

I know how you feel....we have excatly the same probs here in England believe it or not......

This thread directly affects me, as my husband is German.
My husband is a US citizen ( his dad was in the US Army ) ,but his mom is German, and he spent the majority of his life there. He always worked on the Base because his dad was stationed there, and was considered "american". But now that he is an adult ( he is 35 now ), he always says he is German. We moved back here to the US, last year. My husband looks "american", acts "american", pays "american" taxes, and nobody would take him for anything else. But we still have ties there, we still pay German taxes because we have a bank account there, Not to say that he isn't loyal to the US, but it is possible to love two countries and to be involved ( such as taxes ) in two dofferent countries.

We left my mom-in-law there in Germany, and we speak to her often. My husband loves the USA, he is proud and loves this country. But he also loves his "first" homeland and is loyal to their causes as well.And we ( as well as a LOT of other people ) have assets there as well as here and pay the necessary prices to support their government as well.


I think it is not fair to say if you live here than you can ONLY love The USA. I am an American and proud of it. My husband is a German/American and also proud. And I love him for it.

Well I'm a native born Canadian but I have no gripe with most of the immigrants,european or otherwise. A good number of these folks from the "third world" are licenced professionals and very capiable,but when they arrive here they discover that their professional licences are not recognized. They basically have to start over again. Nobodylives at the poverty level to avoid taxes..that's just ridiculous. I have met a couple of engineers who wound up working as labourers and having to attend night classes to get their licence recognized.

One thing we bloody well need to LEARN from the immigrants..especially those from Asia is the way they work together to get ahead. We've forgotten the family unit. We embrace the Corporate "I'm OK..screw you" attitude and wonder why we lose out. These people band together and help each other.

And let's not forget here that our ancestors were once "wierd stangers" here themselves.

bin Laden would be delighted to hear us.

I think that the immigration laws have a lot of flaws, and can fail people like you pointed out, and on the other end it can be taken advantage of, the exact same way that citizens of this country can take advantage of other government funded programs. These problems are no way tied directly to immigrants. I agree there is a lot to learn from people of other cultures.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the company I work for is incredible. It's owned by 1 man, and he built it from having 2 employees, to the 30 that we now have, as well as a LA office. He is the true rags to riches story. Father died when he was 2 & his mother raised 4 kids on her own. She was an immigrant and had no family here. Anyway, he's a millionaire many times over, but the company has never lost the family touch. Just yesterday he came into my office, gave me a hug, and wanted to make sure I was happy. So while I know that the corporate 'screw you' mentality exists, I'm happy to say that not where I work. And I certainly don't perpetuate the mentality or embrace it.

Thinking back to the orignal post . . .

It reminds me of marriage. You grow up in certain family and it has a culture of its own. Some aspects are good, some aspects are bad, some families are "better" than others in some ways. Then you decide you want to be with someone other than your family of origin. In most cases, this is just fine. But sometimes there is conflict between the two aspects of your life, and you have to decide between your parents and your spouse. How nice if everyone chose their spouse, but it isn't always like that. Loving and being loyal to your new life partner doesn't mean you don't love or feel some loyalty to your old family.

Not all immigrants become citizens. I am a US citizen, but I was a Canadian immigrant for many years because my mom married a man who lived in Sudbury, ON. There were restrictions on our rights (we couldn't own property over a certain value, I couldn't have an after-school job, we didn't vote, my folks needed not only the equivalent of a green card but also notification that no Canadian wanted or was qualified for their jobs) but it didn't have a huge negative impact on our lives. My mother's cancer treatments were covered by the Canadian national health care system, so we certainly benefitted. But if for some absurd reason, Canada and the US had declared war on each other, I would have felt loyal to the US (unless the gov't was completely idiotic about something) even tho' I was living in Canada. So although I think it's an unfortunate statement, I can sure understand this man feeling loyalty to his homeland, even as he knows his life is "better" here.

Oh Cat, no need to say sorry girl!! I think unless you are in situation that directly affects you like this then most people only think USA....thats normal. I am lucky, I have a husband who is German and my mom is Italian ( born and raised in Italy ) so I am really tuned in to "bi-country loyalism"......my mom is 100% American, but I think if it came right down to it, she still would support Italy if need be. She also has property there, pays taxes there, etc and I think its her right to have loyalty to both. As does my hubby.

I was just reading Sunlions post, quote:

"But if for some absurd reason, Canada and the US had declared war on each other, I would have felt loyal to the US (unless the gov't was completely idiotic about something) even tho' I was living in Canada. So although I think it's an unfortunate statement, I can sure understand this man feeling loyalty to his homeland, even as he knows his life is "better" here."

And where it says " unless the gov't was completely idiotic about something" is so true! I mean how many of you here would still support the USA if we were doing something awful like committing attrocities on women and children??? I know you are supposed to support your country no matter what, but if the US was at war with another country and WE were in the wrong, I'd like to know how many of us here would still say we are AMerican!!!
My husband would support the USA, but if we went to war w/ Germany and the US was doing something absurd, I am 100% certain he would be on the other side. No doubt in my mind.
But I highly doubt that would ever happen, just a "What IF"........