male vs. male

i have two males, and two females, and for as long as i can remember the two males haven't liked one another, and refuse to give up their stance. their are times when they just go crazy and draw each others blood and the noises they make bring me to tears, and i dont know what to do. what can you do ? i try discipling them to at least tolerate one another, but i'm not sure what the best approach is, and what i'm doing now isnt helping...
i.e. chasing them out of the room; clapping my hands together loudly, spraying them with water from a water bottle <--- even that doesnt work, i'm tempted to throw them both under the shower some days *sigh*

some of it is male territorialness, they both want to rule the house, i think, and the other part i think, is a fight over blue. they are both quite fond of her, and seeing as how she's my last cat to get spayed (her appt. is for next week- thank god !) she goes into heat and they are both vying for her, even though both male cats are neutered i guess that doesnt turn off their hormones ?

whew, i dont know what to do with them. i cant force them to like each other, or even tolerate one another, but they live in the same house, and that will never change, so, i need to figure something out.

anyone else ever have to deal with this sort of situation ?
advice would be appreciated.

*boost* okay, some of you must have had this experience before ! is there anything i can do ?

Hi Blue!

I have a similar situation. Not sure if you've read my posts w/ Cinammon and Tigger? We have 3 girls... Cinammon and Fluffy, both 3, and Tigger is now 10 months old. Cinammon stalks Tigger. After Cinammon bit Tigger's tail, we have separated them.

We bought another litter box and put it in our master bathroom along with food and water bowls. We also had a 6 foot cat tree in our living room, that we put in our bedroom. Cinammon stays in there while we are gone from the house or at work. She comes out when we are home. If she goes after Tigger (lunges or chases), she goes back into the bedroom. This is the only option we have. But, it's weird.... when I feed them Pounce treats they sit next to each other. Tigger doesn't get in her defense mode and Cinammon doesn't try her tricks. The other day, Tigger actually tried to take a Pounce treat from Cinammon. So, I am going to keep doing this positive reinforcement.

Maybe you could try the same? Or just separate them in different parts of the house?

Just like you, I can't force Cinammon and Tigger to like each other. But, I would like them too!

Oh forgot to mention something: at first, when Cinammon would lunge or go after Tigger, we'd yell NO and she wouldn't understand. So, we would pick her up and put her in the room. Now, she does understand it. This morning she chased Tigger and I said HEY and she stopped! She actually knew to go into the bedroom.

[Edited by Tigger on 03-02-2001 at 09:12 AM]