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Friend refuses to nuter.....

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I have this friend who has a bunch of cats and dogs that just run around outside. They are a fairly poor family, and I understand that vet bills can get high, but none of her animals are fixed. I know she has 3 or 4 dogs and over a dozen cats that live around/in the house. She told me that sammy kitty was having babies, I asked her didnt she just have babies at christmas? She said yes. I asked what they do with all the kitties and she answered that they give away what they can and keep the rest. Some run off into the woods, some stay around the house. She is a very nice person and one of my good friends.

I have tried to talk to her about fixing the animals multiple times, and her answer is always the same, dad doesnt want to pay for it, dad doesnt want us to take them to the vet. They have no interest in looking for a low cost spay/nuter (they live in seligman Mo.)

To me this is very irresponsible, and I stay up at night thinking about all the poor kitties that are running around getting knocked up and fighting, getting eaten, getting run over, etc. She also told me one of her dogs is expecting. I tried to bring it up again and now she is getting sensitive to the subject. I dont know what to do, and I understand that if her parents refuse, then there is really not much she can do, but as an animal lover I feel that I have to do something to stop needless births, and needless deaths. I am losing sleep over this. I feel that I have done all I can, short of offering to get them fixed for her family. (I am afraid they would be greatly offended if I did.)

It makes me so mad, and I dont understand how someone who loves animals could be so irresponsible!

I need help!
post #2 of 22
That is a tough one. very tough. I understand she is your friend, and I guess if the parents dont want to there isnt much that can be done. Personally however, I would contact the Local ASPCA, not in a mean way..but perhaps they can move in, and educate the PARENTS on spay and nueter, and how important it is! And they can do it, or do it low cost..thats what I would do anyways.

It is very irresponsible to not do it..and to just let the animals run around like that. Its very hard on them to be having so many litters..and I wont go on about the outdoor factor...
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
I dont think there is an animal shelter or aspca for hours around there. Her town has less than 300 people in it. Either way I am gong to check on that. Any other ideas?
post #4 of 22
My advice may not be the best out there, as I doubt it's 100% legal LOL.

But...what I would probably do in that instance is "catnap" them one or two at a time and take them to get fixed, then release them back. IMHO, it is worth spending the $$ on spay/neuter if it means less kittens and a better quality of life.
post #5 of 22
A while back, I planned on doing something illegal - taking an unneutered male cat that was causing havoc in the neighborhood to a vet in the city where I work, and passing him off as my own. Luckily, threatening the owner with a lawsuit (her cat attacked and injured another cat) finally worked, but if it hadn't, I probably would have done it. As it was, I ended up taking Tobey to my vets' office to be castrated, and his owner reimbursed me. I know some people who have done the same, but it's tougher with a female. One person got caught, and was fined about $350 for "property damage"; the judge didn't accept the theft charge.
You could give the people some literature on spaying, which includes reproductive rates, the dangers of cancer and pyometra, etc., but it probably won't work.

P.S. I found the old threads: http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...ighlight=Tobey
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...ighlight=Tobey
post #6 of 22
And if they are willing to give away kittens, you could try to talk to other people, and rehome some of the kittens, especially the girls. Remember 10 boys plus 1 girl = 1 litter. 10 girls plus one boy = 10 litters.

This doesn't solve the problem, but it may slow it down.

Maybe the next time you visit, you could bring up the spay/neuter question with her Mom in the room. Just let them know you are involved in helping with the cat overpopulation problem. If her Mom is receptive, then you can offer to take one or two to the low-cost clinic. Even offer to help cover the cost.

Often if you let them know of a time when someone helped you, and say you are just passing on the favor to someone else, it can help if they are proud.

Good luck.
post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckiboo
And if they are willing to give away kittens, you could try to talk to other people, and rehome some of the kittens, especially the girls. Remember 10 boys plus 1 girl = 1 litter. 10 girls plus one boy = 10 litters.
I was about to suggest something like that. What's important is they get rid of what they do have that they can't afford to fix. It sounds like "dad" is the stubborn one who won't allow money to be spent on it. If you're close to the person responsible for their daily care, perhaps you could gently tell them you understand having them all fixed would be out of the question but implant the idea in their heads that it's better to send them to new homes that will do it rather than let them run around, not only in danger of disease and wounds from other animals or being hit by a car, but also not receiving adequate vet care... in addition to creating more and more animals non-stop in that same position (Also, what happens when one gets sick or hurt now? Do they take it in? If not, they're probably breaking animal cruelty laws so it's not only in the animals' best interest that they find better homes). Then, help them in any way you can think give them away, one by one, until they're all gone.

I know a family like this. In fact, I tragically hit one of their cats with my car years ago... he ran out in front of me while chasing a rabbit (the bunny jolted across the road just barely in time, I never saw the cat). One problem is, with them being mostly outside, they're probably quite scraggly looking and may be hard to give away.
post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Well I tried again to talk to her about having some of her animals fixed, but she seemed to be getting irratated with me, and was taking a lot longer to answer so I changed the subject. Its almost like she doesnt really care to have them fixed. This is our conversation over messenger... I am Emmaline and she is Sexy like a garden gnome (dont ask). Sam is her cat who had kittens last month, since then she has had another cat that had kittens and a dog that had puppies.






Emmaline says:
how are the puppies
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
they are a mess
Emmaline says:
how cute
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
yeah....my cat Sunny last Wed. brought up 3 kittens out of the field.
Emmaline says:
more kittens!
Emmaline says:
that sounds like its a lot of babies in a short amount of time
Emmaline says:
is it always like that?
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
Well, all of Sam's died, and 3 of Cali's did too.
Emmaline says:
y
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
I dunno, we're wondering if they have bad genetics...I dunno.
Emmaline says:
possibility
Emmaline says:
i mean all your animals are related right?
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
not all of them, but i dont know who the father of some of them are.
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
so they could be
Emmaline says:
well then there is a good chance you have inbreeding happening......
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
We've never had deformities or anything.
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
I thought maybe part of why Sam's died was b/c they were in some hay and I tihnk it might've been moldy. It would be, but no.
Emmaline says:
it wasnt moldy?
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
well, most times hay is in a barn up off the ground so it wont mold. I mean it depends on what you use it for. Here it was on the ground in dirt and they pooped in it which was stupid of them.
Emmaline says:
yeah
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
so who really knows, its just that whatever it was got them in two days.
Emmaline says:
wow
Emmaline says:
was sam okay
Emmaline says:
i mean she is getting pretty old
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
she's a few years old
Emmaline says:
cant having babies after a certian time kill them?
Emmaline says:
it almost killed a golden retriever we had once
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
Our Cat Sunny is over 10 and she keeps pumpin them out.
Emmaline says:
the puppies came out and there was this greenish hued goo
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
that may have been more of a, they were in distress or she had been in labor a while and couldn't get them out.
Emmaline says:
well she was also over 14 years old
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
yeah
Emmaline says:
having litters is hard on them
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
Cats don't have many problems I've watched several births and they just kinda all pushed and *blop* out came a baby.
Emmaline says:
lol
Emmaline says:
hmmmm...the miricle of life by bloping
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
yes
Emmaline says:
i have a test tomorrow
Sexy like a garden gnome! says:
fun...


I feel like its such a lost cause. I tried to get her to think about how hard it is on her favorite cat sam, but she said oh its no problem. The statement about she is 10 years old and keeps pumping them out made me so mad! She is 20 years old, and in college she should know better!
post #9 of 22
If she can afford to be in college she can afford to have her animals fixed! Shesh. It sounds like your friend and my friend are having secret conferences- trying to come up with new and interesting ways to hurt the animals they claim to love. Is there anyway you can sneak the cat off to have her fixed? I wish I had done that with my friend's kitten.
post #10 of 22
If they can't afford to take proper care of the animals, they should not be allowed to have them.

Someone really should do something about it.
post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by esrgirl
If she can afford to be in college she can afford to have her animals fixed! Shesh. It sounds like your friend and my friend are having secret conferences- trying to come up with new and interesting ways to hurt the animals they claim to love. Is there anyway you can sneak the cat off to have her fixed? I wish I had done that with my friend's kitten.

I cant sneak off a cat or two because for one I have no clue where exactly she lives, but the closest town where she lives is about 3 hours away from here as well as being in another state.

As for the being in college she has her college paid by scholarships mostly, and the rest she works on campus for to get the employee discount. The cat's live at her parents house where she lives only four months out of the year (summer and christmas break). It just bothers me because this is the fourth litter of kittens this year and the second litter of puppies. Everytime I talk to her another animal is pregnant. ( I must admit that the story about a dog I once had is a little played up, it wasnt nearly that bad, I was trying to make a point. The dog was 8 years old, only had one pup, not really any problems with delivery, no green stuff, but she was really stressed. She was a purebred golden retriever and the pup was purebred and we kept him. I was a little kid and I am not sure what the reasoning was for her not being fixed.) I posted the conversation to show everyone how "oh well it happens and there is nothing wrong with it" attitude she has going on. She is a good friend of mine so I am treading the line of being a friend and trying to help her animals. It is just beyond me "oh well some more kittens died again, who knows why" attitude. why arent you trying to save them? if the kittens from one cat keeps dying, shouldnt you want to have her fixed so she can stop going through labor and pregnancy? I dont even think they take their animals to the vet in the first place. As mentioned before, her family is poor. I once asked her what they did with all the animals and she said some of the cats just run off and they dont see them anymore, some they try to give away, sometimes they just sit in a walmart parking lot with a box and a sign that says free kittens. Most just hang around the house. I keep praying for all the poor little souls but I want to help them so bad, it really eats away at my insides.
post #12 of 22
As a college student she has greater access to reduced cost/free spay clinics. I was able to get $40 off each of my cats' spays because of this- I should have specified that better!
post #13 of 22
There's a wonderful saying (I think it applies more to humans, but it works great here, too): If you can't feed it, don't breed it!
post #14 of 22
What town does she live in? I know atleast one of us TCS'ers can find a shelter/spca/low cost spay/neuter somewhere in her area.

I'd be willing to look online or try to find something at work. It breaks my heart when I hear about animals in that type of situation.
post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
seligman mo. usa is the nearest town to her.
post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulBear629
What town does she live in? I know atleast one of us TCS'ers can find a shelter/spca/low cost spay/neuter somewhere in her area.

I'd be willing to look online or try to find something at work. It breaks my heart when I hear about animals in that type of situation.
Seligman Missouri - The closest cities are Joplin, Branson or Fayetteville - all many hours away.

I've been in that area. There will not be animal control nor low cost spay/neuter clinics. It is really out in the boonies in Missouri.

Tough situation you are in. I have neighbors with the same philosophy and it does sometimes come from living in rural areas. If you spay the cats, you don't get a constant supply of mousers. If some of them disappear, well, it's nature's way.

The only thing I do with neighbors like this is to catch them when I can and get them speutered without them noticing. Since you live so far away, that just isn't practical. Fact based education for your friend is probably the only thing that will help her understand what is happening. She needs to know the down-side of what is happening, not simply a lecture on what she should do. If she is a college student, education may be your only answer.
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany
Seligman Missouri - The closest cities are Joplin, Branson or Fayetteville - all many hours away.

I've been in that area. There will not be animal control nor low cost spay/neuter clinics. It is really out in the boonies in Missouri.

Tough situation you are in. I have neighbors with the same philosophy and it does sometimes come from living in rural areas. If you spay the cats, you don't get a constant supply of mousers. If some of them disappear, well, it's nature's way.

The only thing I do with neighbors like this is to catch them when I can and get them speutered without them noticing. Since you live so far away, that just isn't practical. Fact based education for your friend is probably the only thing that will help her understand what is happening. She needs to know the down-side of what is happening, not simply a lecture on what she should do. If she is a college student, education may be your only answer.

I think you exactly 100% hit the nail on the head. It is just hard to change someones mind when it is so firmly made up. I honestly dont think she will. even if she does, her parents wont. sigh.
post #18 of 22
Oak View Animal Clinic
(479) 451-1048 14391 Dove Rd
Pea Ridge, AR 72751
13 mi SW

Animal Hospital of Eureka Springs
(479) 253-8923 18 Highway 23 S
Eureka Springs, AR 72632
15 mi SE

Rogers City of: Animal Control Code Compliance
(479) 621-1196 214 W Elm St
Rogers, AR 72756
17 mi SW

Haven of the Ozarks Animals Sanctuary
(417) 835-3647 RR 2 Box 2284
Washburn, MO 65772
4.9 mi NW

Good Shepherd Humane Society Shelter The
(479) 253-9188 6486 Highway 62 W
Eureka Springs, AR 72632
18 mi SE

Animal Hospital of Rogers
(479) 636-5600 1709 W Walnut St
Rogers, AR 72756
18 mi SW

Animal Medical Center
(479) 631-7744 205 S 20th St
Rogers, AR 72758
18 mi SW

Belknap Nancy DVM
(479) 631-0880 103 E New Hope Rd
Rogers, AR 72758
18 mi SW

New Hope Animal Hospital
(479) 631-0880 103 E New Hope Rd
Rogers, AR 72758
18 mi SW

J. Bentonville City of: Animal Control
(479) 273-2455

Sugar Creek Animal Hospital
(479) 927-0007 1145 NW J St
Bentonville, AR 72712
19 mi SW

Rogers City of: Animal Shelter
(479) 621-1197 2935 W Oak St
Rogers, AR 72758
19 mi SW

All Pets Animal Hospital
(479) 273-9299 209 N Walton Blvd
Bentonville, AR 72712
19 mi SW

Rose Animal Clinic
(479) 273-0622 1509 SW A St
Bentonville, AR 72712
19 mi SW

Heritage Animal Hospital
(479) 464-7387 301 SW 16th St
Bentonville, AR 72712
19 mi SW

Osage Veterinary Clinic
(479) 273-7717 1400 SW I St
Bentonville, AR 72712
20 mi SW

Rainbow Animal Hospital
(479) 273-2131 3203 S Walton Blvd
Bentonville, AR 72712

Friends of the Animals
(479) 855-2363 36 Dogwood LN
Bella Vista, AR 72715
20 mi W



I'm not sure how big Seligman is or where she lives in it but these are all within 20 miles of the town. Maybe you could get her to call some of these places or you could call yourself.
Hope alteast one of these places can help. Whatever you choose to do - good luck! :big thumb:
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxy_loves_CJ
I think you exactly 100% hit the nail on the head. It is just hard to change someones mind when it is so firmly made up. I honestly dont think she will. even if she does, her parents wont. sigh.
If you can educate your friend without her feeling like you are confronting her, she may go home and just insist that her parents take care of things. Heck, make her a convert and SHE will go home and sneak cats out to get speutered.

I wish you loads of luck with your friend!
post #20 of 22
When I was a child I thought breeding kittens was wonderful. My Aunt & Uncle had a dairy farm and there were 23 cats outdoors and then a couple of "housecats." I loved to go there to play with the cats.
A college girl should have more sense than that. As a matter of fact, she really ticks me off.
I have a cat who was born with 3 legs. His only front foot and one back foot are deformed. We found him when he was a tiny kitten, so I can't prove it, but how do you think he got that way? IMO, INBREEDING!
post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat
When I was a child I thought breeding kittens was wonderful. My Aunt & Uncle had a dairy farm and there were 23 cats outdoors and then a couple of "housecats." I loved to go there to play with the cats.
A college girl should have more sense than that. As a matter of fact, she really ticks me off.
I have a cat who was born with 3 legs. His only front foot and one back foot are deformed. We found him when he was a tiny kitten, so I can't prove it, but how do you think he got that way? IMO, INBREEDING!

I understand what you are saying, I get angry whenever she mentions pets, but I try to hide it to the best of my abilities.

I also have to say, she is also a very good friend of mine, she is always there when I need her, and I have cried on her shoulder more than once. So I finally understand that you can love the person, and hate the attitude (at least this part of her attitude). I am working on trying to figure out how to say it while still being a friend. If I make her mad where she closes off to me, then I lose a friend and am not helping the kitties.

Oh and she said that one of her other cats is pregnant again.
post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxy_loves_CJ
I understand what you are saying, I get angry whenever she mentions pets, but I try to hide it to the best of my abilities.

I also have to say, she is also a very good friend of mine, she is always there when I need her, and I have cried on her shoulder more than once. So I finally understand that you can love the person, and hate the attitude (at least this part of her attitude). I am working on trying to figure out how to say it while still being a friend. If I make her mad where she closes off to me, then I lose a friend and am not helping the kitties.

Oh and she said that one of her other cats is pregnant again.
We probably all have friends that do things we don't like.
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