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"wars" raises questions on US policy"

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/2...618582000.html

I find the artists are the ones who have to wake us up.
post #2 of 19
I guess the old addage is true:

You see what you want to see.

I see a movie, that's all. I see entertainment, and the lead in to a story started almost 30 years ago. Especially since Lucas wrote the storyline WAY before Bush came to power, I think it's just a matter of seeing what you want to see.
post #3 of 19
Does he say anything that he thinks the US policy is going in that direction or wrote that in the film with that Intention? I think not. Again, your graping at straws, like the european press is. He also based his movies on other historic events and other films, as a "fan" you should know this before repeating what the european press says Don't forget, The main idea of the film was written in 1975ish. Sure he maybe against Iraq, just like the rest of the Hollywood Policital party is butRemember: its a movie... This is Science Fiction/Fantasy storytelling put on film... Any questions? I don't see Bush trying to increase his power in office, remember Check and Balances? Until I seethe Constitution disappear or better yet, the Emperor, stormtroopers patroling the streets (and no I am not talking about the 501st) and Star Destroyers orbiting the Earth...*yawn* Oh btw, there's catholics that are saying that its way too spooky that the Emperor in the star wars series looks too much like the new pope, I guess another spin on the story? LIke Heidi says, "You only see what you want to see."

The way you and the press are saying, we should take THX-1138 (which being a fan, you should know about *that* storyline is about) very seriously... or what about Starship Troopers? and if your not awake yet, where the heck have you been?
post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 
I mean if you don't call this filibuster thing a threat to democracy... It takes aWAY checks and balances, George doesn't respect the process.
post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marge
I mean if you don't call this filibuster thing a threat to democracy... It takes aWAY checks and balances, George doesn't respect the process.
Yeah, I do think this fillibuster thing is a threat to democracy. Only I'm sure we're on opposite sides on this. I think fillibustering judicial nominations, which this is the first time in history it has been used for that purpose - so much for maintaining the historic ideals - is as much trying to take their ball and go home as it is anything else. Democratic process would entail an up or down vote, period.

But this isn't at all what you started this thread about. Is it about complaining about the current political atmosphere or what George Lucas has put into his movie as interpreted by the Cannes movie-goers (and we already know what the general feeling about the US is there...) I read the article you posted, and I don't see Mr. Lucas commenting on the fillibuster issue at all. Do you know him personally that you can make such a statement?
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
Yeah, I do think this fillibuster thing is a threat to democracy. Only I'm sure we're on opposite sides on this. I think fillibustering judicial nominations, which this is the first time in history it has been used for that purpose - so much for maintaining the historic ideals - is as much trying to take their ball and go home as it is anything else. Democratic process would entail an up or down vote, period.

But this isn't at all what you started this thread about. Is it about complaining about the current political atmosphere or what George Lucas has put into his movie as interpreted by the Cannes movie-goers (and we already know what the general feeling about the US is there...) I read the article you posted, and I don't see Mr. Lucas commenting on the fillibuster issue at all. Do you know him personally that you can make such a statement?
It isn't the first time in history,another lie being spread around. A bold faced lie.(I don't mean you, I mean the idiots who are saying this)
post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
I think fillibustering judicial nominations, which this is the first time in history it has been used for that purpose
Say what one wants about the filibuster, but it is not true that it has never been used before. It was used by the conservatives in 1968 to block the liberal Abe Fortas from going to the Supreme Court. Other times the mere threat of it stop the process. And it is also not the first time that judicial nominations have been blocked.
post #8 of 19
So this thread wasn't started to actually discuss what was stated in the first post.
post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
So this thread wasn't started to actually discuss what was stated in the first post.
We are talking about the original post, that this movie has themes that are very current, such as the slow slide into loss of the ideals democracy, that tyrants can be anywhere etc.
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
So this thread wasn't started to actually discuss what was stated in the first post.
That may seem correct when one looks at it at first brush but there is a logical progression.

1) First you have the article's claim of a grab of power.
2) Then someone refutes it by claiming no there is no action that can be seen as a grab of power.
3) Which is countered by an example (filibuster) of what another thinks is considered as a grab.
4) That in turn is rejected on the basis that the thing (filibuster) was not meant to be used in such a manner and to give support to it, claims that it was never used in a certain manner before (judicial nominations).
5) Finally someone clarifies the claim made above that it has never being used in such a manner before, is factually wrong.

So while looking at (1) and (5) it may seem off point but in reality looking at the train of argument it is on point since it goes back to the initial point made against the article, with each other point as a supporting argument that provides a buttress for the initial counterpoint.

Let me give you an analogy
1) Mr A: The world revolves round the sun
2) Mr B: No the sun revolves round earth because "C" told me so
3) Mr A: Do you believe what everything "C" says?
4) Mr B: "C" has never told me anything that is wrong before
5) Mr A: What about the time when "C" told you the world is flat?
6) Mr B: Sorry that is not the original point of this argument, which is about the world revolving round the sun not that the world is flat or round.

Obviously talking about whether the world is flat does is not on point with whether the world revolves round the sun but from this train of argument it is on point because of the supporting argument on the absolute truth of "C."
post #11 of 19
Fine, whatever. Y'all get back to your Bush Bashing, since that truly is the only purpose of this thread.

Have fun!
post #12 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
Fine, whatever. Y'all get back to your Bush Bashing, since that truly is the only purpose of this thread.

Have fun!
Wull the article was clearly critical of the administrations policies, and...I mean Bush is in charge of it (even if it's in name only)
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marge
Wull the article was clearly critical of the administrations policies, and...I mean Bush is in charge of it (even if it's in name only)
Gee, so sorry....I thought you might actually have wanted to talk about the themes in the movie, which is what the article was about, and which none of us have even seen. Yeah, no kidding it was critical of the US - it was about the reaction at Cannes. Sorry if I was so dull not to see it was just an excuse to gripe.

Last post in this thread, promise. I just don't see why you can't just start a b*tch thread if that's all you want to do and not pose it as a topic which might interest more than the anti-Bushers.
post #14 of 19
Thread Starter 
I find it very interesting when art recreates life myself,and it wasn't just about Cannes crowds, there are Lucas quotes etc.
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
What's the problem with Bush bashing? I mean when Clinton was in office I used to bash him over stupid things he did, and I had right wing friends who really did. I mean in general yes, I have a ton more respect for him than dippy (I am just a sucker for brains...) but still bashing the president is part of life in America.
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
Fine, whatever. Y'all get back to your Bush Bashing, since that truly is the only purpose of this thread.

Have fun!
Hmm, so correcting someone's factual error is now considered Bush bashing?
post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpy
Hmm, so correcting someone's factual error is now considered Bush bashing?
That's actually a better way to put it (as usual Bumpo you are more down to earth..)

Yes, there are many lies floating around out there, pointing them out shouldn't be "bashing".
post #18 of 19
I wasn't referring to that. My point was missed entirely. Why start a thread about Star Wars when that isn't what you want to talk about? Why pull in people who may actually want to talk about Star Wars when that isn't the real topic? Had I KNOWN that the whole point of the thread was just another excuse to gripe about the US and the government, I wouldn't have posted in the first place and saved myself the trouble. I certainly did notice that my first post, which was actually ON TOPIC about the reaction to the STAR WARS movie and the article posted was wholly ignored. Which tells me that wasn't really the intended topic.
post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
I wasn't referring to that. My point was missed entirely. Why start a thread about Star Wars when that isn't what you want to talk about? Why pull in people who may actually want to talk about Star Wars when that isn't the real topic? Had I KNOWN that the whole point of the thread was just another excuse to gripe about the US and the government, I wouldn't have posted in the first place and saved myself the trouble. I certainly did notice that my first post, which was actually ON TOPIC about the reaction to the STAR WARS movie and the article posted was wholly ignored. Which tells me that wasn't really the intended topic.
The topic wasn' t the movie but how the movie has some similar issues to today and yes in a critical sense.

It's ok to gripe, it's like when you love your friends/family the ones you love are the ones that you need to vent about. Just cause we want to point out where our country has gone way off course doesn't make it bad.
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