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a serious dilemma for me, advice would be extremely appreciated.

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
well, here is a story to follow a question/dillema i have over two of my cats that are no longer with me.

i have six cats, i'm not sure how this happened ! it happened over a few months, and i think, besides loving cats as much as i do, i got them because i was never allowed to have cats as a child or even as a teenager, as my mother is afraid of them (due to a childhood experience with wild cats) and my brother is allergic. my father would let me have cats & dogs but i didnt live with him, and was only able to see them once in awhile. so, as an adult, being responsible enough and loving enough, and having enough money, i found myself not being able to resist getting them... all six of them !

so, i found myself with all these precious, amazing, beautiful cats. when i got them, i got them with my good friend, Cameron, and we agreed to share them, as we lived together. then a few months later i moved out and took 4 of the cats, while he kept 2 and we visited often. then a few months after that he decided to take a job in Mexico (for only 1 month), arranging to have a women friend of his family take care of them. so he left. then his mother called and told me this woman wouldnt be looking after them as she had to move out of her house unexpectedly and couldnt manage them.
so, she offered a home for them with friends of hers with a farm. seeing as i already had 4, i couldnt take 2 more in my home as my apartment just isnt big enough and i didnt think it was incredibly fair to my cats, or my roomate. there was no other solution at the time, and this solution was meant to be permenant as these people were looking for cats to keep.

when Cameron got back and found out, he was hysterical, like i had been when i found out they had to move. its about 4 months later now and Cameron is able to look after the cats full time, permanately. we just havent known what to do, and have been trying to figure out the best approach.

for Cameron, he wasnt aware at the time they went to a new home, because i didnt want to upset him while he was away, and there wasnt anything that could be done at the time anyway. so, he has some rights in getting them back, right?

the problem is, is it wrong to ask for our cats back?

these cats mean more then you can imagine (or i guess you can) to me and to him, and i find myself getting increasingly depressed over the situation, and wanting so much to see them again. one of them was the first cat we got; Sebastion. and i miss them so much.

is it wrong to ask for them back or take actions?

they have only had our cats a few months, while we had them over a year, loved them, got their shots, raised them...

its been a question in my mind for some time, not knowing what to do, and if its wrong to approach these nice people and ask/demand if we have to - for them back.

i just dont think i can be without them any longer. but i cant decide morally what the right thing is to do.

any feedback would be appreciated, as i just dont know what to do now.

i hope all of this made sense, its getting late here, and talking about this upsets me, and i start to ramble on & on !

thanks for reading all of this ( if you managed it )

~ Katie ~
post #2 of 25
I think I would explain the situation and ask for them back. If they are understanding people they would give them to their rightful owners.

I hope you're able to have them returned to you.
post #3 of 25
I think you should see how the cats are doing in the new place. Maybe ask the people if you can visit them.

If the cats are well taken care of, perhaps you should leave them there. Cats are creatures of habit and too many changes are not so good for them. If you think you can take care of more cats, there are always plenty of them looking for a good home in the shelters.

Just my 2 cents.
post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by blue


when Cameron got back and found out, he was hysterical, like i had been when i found out they had to move. its about 4 months later now and Cameron is able to look after the cats full time, permanately. we just havent known what to do, and have been trying to figure out the best approach.

---- (((they are not just my cats, remember, it is also his decision.)))

for Cameron, he wasnt aware at the time they went to a new home, because i didnt want to upset him while he was away, and there wasnt anything that could be done at the time anyway. so, he has some rights in getting them back, right?

the problem is, is it wrong to ask for our cats back?

these cats mean more then you can imagine (or i guess you can) to me and to him, and i find myself getting increasingly depressed over the situation, and wanting so much to see them again. one of them was the first cat we got; Sebastion. and i miss them so much.

---- (((Cats are creatures of habit, but these cats are very special, and i know they miss me as much as i miss them. it really isnt an option to replace them with two new cats, and if i thought it would be harmful to them in anyway to bring them home, i wouldnt consider it.)))

~ Katie ~
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
thanks for your advice, what you're suggesting is what i have been considering as the best approach.

i think if we go to them and sit down and explain the
situation, they will understand.

i would even offer to go to the shelter and pay for 2 other cats for them.

it isnt easy, as i dont feel incredibly happy about having
to ask these people for them back, but at the same time,
they are our cats who we miss so much.


lets hope it all works out. i'll let you know what happens, when i know.


~*~
katie
post #6 of 25
This is just my two cents worth for what it's worth...but I definately would not demand anything...I would first call these people, and expalin the situation, then ask if you could come and "visit" the cats...don't say anything yet about wanting them back...just ask to visit...

Then once there...see how well they are being treated, what the people are like who own them now, if they have children who may possibly be attached to these cats by now, and how happy the cats seem. Then if you still want them back, maybe you could approach the subject then, just say you sure wish you hadn't given them up, as you now have a place to keep them, and see if the people offer to let you take them back...I know I would, if I were in their position, and someone who had loved and had the cats for so long was now able to care for them, I wouldn't want to keep them from them. Just ask nicely, is the main thing.

You may decide that they are better off where they are at, and maybe the people will let you and Cameron visit them from time to time.

Let us know how it goes.
post #7 of 25
You don't have any legal rights to these cats - (I am speaking from someone who has worked in the legal field for twenty years). Although it was through no fault of your own, these cats were given up - they went from one person to another to another and you were not in a position to take them and give them the kind of home and stability they needed. Cameron chose to go where he could not take them - whether he thought they were being taken care of or not, the fact is he left and he left the cats. So, the people who have these cats now - the kids and the family? The cats belong to them - they are secure, they are well taken care of - if this is true than you need to not try to hurt these people who gave them a home when you, Cameron and your friends and family could or would not.

There are many cats in this world who are waiting for Cameron to adopt and love them -
These two cats have a home. They are not your cats, legally or even morally. It is unfortunate how this came about but the cats should not be made to endure any more change in their lives.

I do not mean to offend you, but these people owe you nothing. I hope you are able to get beyond this and offer your love to another cat.
post #8 of 25
I feel the first problem here was that you let them be adopted, knowing that these people were looking for permanent cats, I have been through some very tough times with 6 cats in my early years, but I managed to keep them altogether, I personally could never let anyone take one of my cats. A person can become very much in love with a cat in just a matter of days, I don't feel that you have any rights to demand them back, you did give them up. I would not however, hesitate to contact the people & see how they are doing. If they have adjusted well, then I think they should be left their. Whats to say your friend will not be able to take care of them again & would be forced to give them up again.
post #9 of 25
Thread Starter 
the people they are with have no family; no kids, and not an incredible attachment to our cats, as they have only been with them a short time. Cameron only left because he had thought he had someone to care for the cats the very short time he was gone, had he known she would suddenly not be capable, he wouldnt have gone. he is very responsible, and incredibly loving. they arent just his cats, but mine as well, and the both of us are struggling with being seperated for these past few months.

yes, there are many cats in need of good homes, but we dont want to go around looking for replacements for cats we adore, in my opinion, this couple should be the ones to look for new cats, and give them a good home. this isnt to say i am not thankfull for what they've done, but it is to say, we both have a strong emotional bond.

morally, i dont know what you're talking about, Rene, these are not kids we gave up for adoption, but, in fact, cats that we loved and took care of for over a year, this couple has had them only a few months, and i'm sure if they are understanding enough of the situation, they will be the ones to offer them back, and find new ones to love.

and as for legally, which i'm not sure why you brought up, i'm not about to take legal action, and i dont think this couple would either, this is something that can hopefully be talked about, and worked out, without lawyers, although Cameron and I both have a lawyer, if it ever came to that, i guess we'll see what rights we do and dont have.

and yes, you did offend me, i dont know you, but you seem quick to judge others. furthermore, you dont know a thing about the people who have our cats, as i havent said anything about them, so you cant presume to know how secure and well taken care of they are, can you?
post #10 of 25
I am sure that Rene did not mean to offend you, Blue...and I hope you won't hold that agaisnt her....I think she was only trying to help. I do see your point though too, Blue...you really have no way of knowing how well these cats are being treated until you go and visit them and see for yourself. Let's try to see both sides of the situation here, and hopefully continue this discussion in a friendly manner.
post #11 of 25
Blue, please remember that anytime you ask for opinions, that you are going to get just that & everyone is not going to say things you will like to hear, I see going back over my reply to you, that it sounded harsher than it should have. Advice is one of those things that is soooooo easy to give, but hard to accept. But we are not involved, we are just standing back looking at both sides & saying what we think. I think you should go speak to these people & tell them what happened & see what their response is, it could very well be they would be glad to give them up, you will never know until you go see them & can assess the situation. I wish you the best in this situation
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by My3boys
I feel the first problem here was that you let them be adopted, knowing that these people were looking for permanent cats, I have been through some very tough times with 6 cats in my early years, but I managed to keep them altogether, I personally could never let anyone take one of my cats. A person can become very much in love with a cat in just a matter of days, I don't feel that you have any rights to demand them back, you did give them up. I would not however, hesitate to contact the people & see how they are doing. If they have adjusted well, then I think they should be left their. Whats to say your friend will not be able to take care of them again & would be forced to give them up again.
~*~

wow. your response is even worse then Rene's. i feel a lot of defensiveness rising in me, but i'll try not to react as harshly as you did.

if you had read the whole post, you'd see that i had no other choice, i couldnt very well call Cameron in Mexico and tell him to get on the next plane home, and i couldnt put my roomate in that situation, as we already have 4 cats. the situation is a little more complex then you may understand it to be.

(just so everyone is clear, when i opened up to this sensitive situation and asked for *feedback* and that wasnt code for *judgement* and i dont appreciate people who are quick to judge others, and i certainly wouldnt regard you in that way if the situation were reversed. judging others states you think you are better, or your opinion is right, when you are not better and all opinions are subjective.)

the choice to allow these people to take in my cats was one of the hardest for me, and there simply werent any other options, i dont live in a house, and it wasnt just my decision as my roomate does have some say

so personally you may *never* let anyone take your cats, but really you'd have to be in that situation yourself first to know what you'd do. and obviously i am this horrible person for allowing such a thing... regardless of the situation.

if you had asked me, i would have said the same thing, but i hadnt been put in that situation, so my answer would have been ideal, wouldnt it?

now, heres the best part of your comment, here we go ~

" Whats to say your friend will not be able to take care of them again & would be forced to give them up again. "

again you are passing judgement, and condescending me, perhaps because you assume to know more, or just assume...
i already stated the uniqueness of the situation, and that Cameron is very responsible and loving and compassionate. what you're implying is that persons with cats shouldnt ever leave them with other responsible persons if they are going away for a short time, as that is concieved to be irresposible. i suppose we should just take them every place we go, every vacation, etc...

what happened with the woman who was to look after them was incredibly unfortunate, but it wasnt anyones fault and it couldnt have been predicted. it doesnt make him irresponsible.

anyway, i see the defensiveness got out anyway, and i'll leave it at this. i'm sorry you felt the need to respond the way you did, and perhaps you had a bad day, or something like that, but i'm not someone who will sit back and have others pass judgements and condescention so easily, then again i guess its easier when you cant say it to thats persons face, isnt it?

i dont have anything against you, my3boys, but perhaps next time you should think out your response before typing the first things that come into your head, you have to understand the things you say affect others, even if its only to a small extent.

i'm sorry if that sounded condescending, it wasnt meant as such.

and whew, i dont generally use the word " condescending " so often, but i guess you bring out the best in me !

~ katie
post #13 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by My3boys
Blue, please remember that anytime you ask for opinions, that you are going to get just that & everyone is not going to say things you will like to hear, I see going back over my reply to you, that it sounded harsher than it should have. Advice is one of those things that is soooooo easy to give, but hard to accept.
when i ask for opinions and feedback, i dont expect the opinions given will be sugar-coated and exactly relative to what i think... please dont assume i would expect such a thing, (i do know just a little bit about people) but i also dont expect negativitiy and judgement, only open-positive thoughts and hopefully warmth,
or at least, some positiveness & some warmth articulated thoughtfully instead of harshly & negatively. i dont think thats much to expect from people, or at least hope to see in people.

i dont have a problem accepting a persons advice or view of a situation, but this doesnt mean i'll heed it, or agree with it,
but someone offering their advice and someone imposing their negative opinion are two different things.

~ katie
post #14 of 25
I really do think this got out of hand. Noone was trying to pass judgment on anyone. An oppinion was asked and then some were given. Some people are more passionate about these kinds of decisions.
As for Renes post. You asked what to do moraly and what your legal rights were...she answered. She did not assume they had kids or a family..there was a question mark there.Then was stated if it were true that they were well taken care of..which is not an assumption.
For my3boys, she stated she had some tough times, she may very well have been put into a similar situation. She said she feels you have no right...this is an oppinion. She was not passing judment on your friend..she simply brought up a what if situation, obviously he didnt mean for it to happen the first time.
There is no reason to get so harsh with other people after you asked for an oppinion. Nowhere did it say that you or your friend were terrible. It was few people telling you what they thought.
post #15 of 25
I agree, I think this whole thing has gotten out of hand, and I'm not blaming any one certain person, I just think things have been taken in the wrong way.

I considered closing this thread, for fear of causing more hurt feelings, (on both sides) but I think I will leave it open for now...because I'm sure we would all like to know if you do indeed get your babies back.

Let's just try to continue the thread without anymore hurt feelings (on either side) I think we can do that. Let's just put the bad feelings aside, and please let us know if you get your cats back...I hope you do, since it so obviously means so much to you.
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
this whole thing did get out of hand, defensive & heated, and i apologize for my part, i am just not one to smile pretty and turn my back


sorry to any i may have offended.


~ katie
post #17 of 25
It's okay...we still love you. I too get overly defensive about things close to my heart. Let us know if you get your cats back.
post #18 of 25
I may be adding more fuel to the fire, but I would suggest having Cameron take the lead on contacting the current "owners". It sounds to me like he would be the one to keep your kitties should the current owners be willing to give them back. I'm sure that you're just looking for opinions on how to move forward, but I would think Cameron would be the best judge of how he would feel most comfortable pursuing this.
post #19 of 25
Laura, that is very good advice!!! And welcome to the forums!!!!!!
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
like i said earlier, Laura, the cats are mine and Camerons.
all the decisions are made together, though i did ask him already to handle talking to the new owners, and letting them know what happened.


thanks for your advice/input, though and for getting through this thread !


and thanks for your reply Debby
post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 
Rene

i just wanted to make a more clear, formal apology for reacting so defensively to your comments. i am a rather sensitive soul, along with opinionated and out-spoken and bold, so, sometimes those things dont go too well together, and peoples feelings end up getting hurt. and i'm sorry if yours were.

so. i hope this wont be a grudge thing.

not that i think you're holding a grudge, but if you are, its okay, i understand that.






have a good day.
post #22 of 25
I don't think there is anything wrong with you asking to have your cats back (not sure if I just made sense). I would explain your situation and how you feel, and hopefully the people will understand. Good Luck!
post #23 of 25
I have been in rescue for a long time - a lof of people do not like my answers (if I don't agree with them) as I seldome think about the person, only the animal and I was thinking of where the cats you gave up may be right now. I never really care what people think or say to me as my comments to you were as number one a legal mind and number two as the president of an animal rescue organization. I don't know you personally and my post was the same post you would have received if you had emailed me through my organization. After years of rescue, one becomes a bit callused, although I always love the cats, no matter what.
post #24 of 25
Katie, I think it was very kind of you to apologize and try to calm things down. I'm glad that Rene is back (I was a bit worried at first ) You two don't have to agree about anything, but I know that you both love cats dearly and that neither one of you has meant this to become a personal thing.

Let's just leave things in peace now.
post #25 of 25
I agree!
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