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Fat lip?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Mika has developed a pimple-like bump right in the middle of his little bottom lip. I felt of it, and it is firm but not hard. Could he, in his determination to skid across the kitchen floor and slam into the patio door as hard as he can, have just given himself a fat lip, or should I be worried it's something far worse? Could it be a "pimple" of sorts?
post #2 of 24
do you use plastic food/water dishes? If so, sometimes cats can get blackheads from those...
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Yes, we do, and I have worried about that. He's a messy eater so it's hard to tell sometimes, but I do believe he's formed the little spots under his chin from it.

My perception of a black head is a black pore with not much "raise" about it. Would it have grown to a full round bump? I didn't see a head on it. I noticed it yesterday and thought he just bit himself while playing perhaps and that it'd be smaller today, but no change.
post #4 of 24
Can you show us a picture?
post #5 of 24
Not sure exactly how they look, since I use metal ones for Juicy...but I have heard many cases of cats getting "bumps" under the mouth on the chin area caused by the plastic. Hopefully someone will reply with better advice, but that's just my guess
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
This isn't too clear, he was starting to squirm, but here's the photo...

post #7 of 24
I see what you are talking about now. That doesn't look like what I have seen before as far as the acne thing from using plastic containers. I'm not so sure. Have you called your vet? If I were you, I would PM the member "Hissy" and ask her about it.
post #8 of 24
I have seen that exactly before. Bear developed it. In his case, it was caused by an allergic reaction to plastic. We tried a series of antibiotics as if it were kitty acne and that helped, but then it rebounded even worse. It scabbed up and became quite inflamed. I was washing it several times a day with betadine scrub and it didn't seem to make any difference until we removed the plastic from his environment. Then it started to resolve - but didn't resolve completely. It was chronic until I realized that the 'fabric' collar that he wore was actually a type of plastic fiber. I removed the collar and it started to resolve much faster. I also started to use pau d'arco tea as the washing solution instead of the betadine. About a week after we removed the collar it was virtually gone after haunting poor Bear for about 8 weeks. If we hadn't received any type of resolution then the vet was going to do a biopsy. Fortunately, we thought about a plastic allergy before that, and once ALL of the plastic was removed from his vicinity, he completely recovere.

I would say it is worth a try to remove any collar he may wear, and to replace all of his plastic dishes with ceramic saucers or metal bowls. I would also recommend making a wash of pau d'arco (available at any health food store) by putting a teaspoon of root into a cup of boiling water, letting it cool and refrigerate it. I used it for 2 days then made a fresh cup. Good luck.

Kathryn
post #9 of 24
I disagree that this is acne caused by plastic bowls. It looks far more like eosinophilic granuloma complex, i.e., a "rodent ulcer", which my cat has also suffered from. There's information about it here: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/eosi...granuloma.html
Your cat should be taken to the vet, who will biopsy the "bump" to determine whether it is a granulom or herpes. EGC is often caused by an allergy to a flea bite, food, or pollen, or can be idiopathic (of no known cause). Treatment usually consists of one or more shots of cortisone or prednisolone spaced about a week apart. Many people, including myself, have found that 500 mg. of salmon oil with omega fatty acids daily over a number of weeks will speed recovery, and later one capsule a week, squeezed over the cat's food, may prevent another outbreak.
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
I looked up Hissy's name in the member list & the one I found said she hasn't visited since 2001.

Could it be something that would warrant a weekend emergency visit? I will call the vet on Monday for sure, and take away his plastic bowls in the meantime.

We have just been through a food transition, I didn't think about that until last night. One night he ran out of Felidae wet and I fed him the only other thing we had in the house which was Science Diet wet, which he got for two days. He'd been eating Kitten chow dry but also ran out right after that. I don't know why I thought the pet store would have KC, but of course when I went for the Felidae they didn't, so here he's back on his Felidae wet and has had a semi-sudden (as I mixed what KC he had left with it) dry change to Nutro kitten.

After switching to Nutro, the bump showed up either the next day or the day after that. It does seem logical that the two are connected.

The poor thing, he's starting to look like a boxer just out of the ring! Here he has this fat lip, and this morning he decided to play with a bee and got stung on the paw. His paw swelled up a bit but is almost back to normal now.
post #11 of 24
Hissy is online the site often and answers many questions (look at her number of posts...it's the most I've ever seen on here for a single person!!!). She is very educated about cats, and can be trusted. I see where it says that, and I'm not sure---maybe she just always has the "appear offline" thing turned on, but she is online alot.

I would send her a private message and I am sure she will get back to you promptly.
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
I was reading another post when I saw a reply from her on it... so I realized it was the right person and something was off with the listing. I did just PM her, thanks for the advice!
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooz123
I looked up Hissy's name in the member list & the one I found said she hasn't visited since 2001.

Could it be something that would warrant a weekend emergency visit? I will call the vet on Monday for sure, and take away his plastic bowls in the meantime.

We have just been through a food transition, I didn't think about that until last night. One night he ran out of Felidae wet and I fed him the only other thing we had in the house which was Science Diet wet, which he got for two days. He'd been eating Kitten chow dry but also ran out right after that. I don't know why I thought the pet store would have KC, but of course when I went for the Felidae they didn't, so here he's back on his Felidae wet and has had a semi-sudden (as I mixed what KC he had left with it) dry change to Nutro kitten.

After switching to Nutro, the bump showed up either the next day or the day after that. It does seem logical that the two are connected.

The poor thing, he's starting to look like a boxer just out of the ring! Here he has this fat lip, and this morning he decided to play with a bee and got stung on the paw. His paw swelled up a bit but is almost back to normal now.
No, that doesn't warrant a visit to the emergency vet. An appointment next week should be fine. From what I've read/been told about EGC, if it's caused by a food allergy, it usually develops after a cat has been getting the food for quite some time.
Jamie has only had one bout with it, and that was almost two years ago. Luckily, the vet caught it in the very early stages when she was cleaning his teeth. We never determined what caused it, but since he'd already had adverse reactions to soy (hyperactivity) and beet pulp (severe dandruff), I stopped feeding him anything containing those ingredients. I participate in a German-language EGC forum, and it's amazing to read the various causes some people have been able to establish: beef, rice, chicken, corn, lamb, soy, dust mites..... the list is endless. I do think it's a good idea to get rid of the plastic bowls, because many cats seem to be allergic to them, and they tend to become scratched. I use stainless steel for dry food, and glass or china for canned food and water, and put everything through the dishwasher.
I hope your baby's lip heals soon!
post #14 of 24
It doesn't say I haven't signed in since 2001, it says I joined in 2001

I agree that this could be a rodent ulcer. But it does need a vet. I would keep the cat on soft foods, make sure it has plenty of fresh water and call you vet Monday for an appointment that day. It could also be a tooth abscess that again would need a vet- so please get your cat to a vet on Monday if you can-
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
I disagree that this is acne caused by plastic bowls. It looks far more like eosinophilic granuloma complex, i.e., a "rodent ulcer", which my cat has also suffered from. There's information about it here: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/eosi...granuloma.html
Exactly...this is what it has looked like on the two of my kitties over the years who had this.
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
We just brought Mika back from the vet, and thankfully other than that darn bump he's healthy.

He suggested that it might be a rodent ulcer before I even brought it up, but he didn't seem too concerned about it and told us to just watch it for signs of worsening. That's about all he did.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooz123
We just brought Mika back from the vet, and thankfully other than that darn bump he's healthy.

He suggested that it might be a rodent ulcer before I even brought it up, but he didn't seem too concerned about it and told us to just watch it for signs of worsening. That's about all he did.
I am surprised he didn't treat this...here is an article - but be warned it has some slightly graphic photos of the 3 different expressions of eosinophilic granuloma complex (indolent - aka rodent - ulcer is one of the 3).

click here
post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 
After you guys brought it up I actually read that and several other snippets on other sites about it. He said he didn't want to run treatment on a young cat if he didn't have to. Isn't there a test for it? I would've thought he would've offered to do one if there is, to rule it out. I felt like asking him if there was a test but he just seemed so confident that it was nothing to be alarmed about and said it was too soon to know what it is. He also recommended against cleaning the area in any way because it's so close to his mouth.

What I haven't been able to find online is how quickly it progresses, realizing that each case is probably different, but there's no average anywhere. It popped up at least five days ago now and hasn't seemed to change much since we first noticed it, if at all. What has your experience been?

I will for sure watch it like a hawk, and if there's any change call him right up immediately. Of course, my hope is that one morning we'll wake up and it will be gone!
post #19 of 24
With mine, Mervat had rodent ulcer with at least 1 reocurrence, each time she received medication (can't recall if as shot or oral med, believe it was a steroid of some sort). Her son Joshua had as I recall 2 occurances, plus an unusal manifestation that led to swollen and sore paw pads (thankfully, that was only once)...each time he was medicated as well.

I'll ask our resident vet tech advisor to comment (Dr. Doolittle).
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
I got the feeling he wasn't convinced that's what it is yet, and wanted to see if it showed any changes before prescribing a treatment. That's why I left feeling like he should've done more to figure out what it is instead of just waiting to see if it gets worse. Seems to me he'd want to head it off at the pass before it becomes uncomfortable or painful?? Maybe he thought it could be something goofy like a bug bite welt that really will disappear? After all, it is just kind of a nondescript bump on his lip...
post #21 of 24
Sometimes the rodent ulcers just disappear on their own, which might be what your vet is waiting for. If it doesn't within one week, I'd take Mika back to the vet (or to another vet). In the meantime, you could try the fish oil capsules, because they won't hurt him. Try to get salmon oil with omega fatty acids (sold wherever there are health care products) in 500 mg. capsules. Stick or slice a capsule (1 a day), and squeeze the oil out over Mika's food. You can give him one a day for 6 - 8 weeks, and might see improvement within that period. As I mentioned, I participate in a German EGC forum, and many members have achieved good results with the capsules alone, though the capsules combined with cortisone shots seem to work best in mild cases.
Jamie's lip ulcer disappeared about 8 days after the first cortisone shot. As I remember it, my vet tested cells to rule out herpes, and concluded from the negative results that it was EGC. His ulcer was really small, though - actually barely noticeable. I used to sponsor a shelter cat, Norman, who had recurrences about every six months. He was adopted almost a year and a half ago, and his "parents" put him on the "pill" on the advice of their vet, and he hasn't had a problem for almost a year. This is such a weird disorder. Some cats get an ulcer on their lips, others on their bodies, and some even get ulcers on their inner organs.
post #22 of 24
I agree with Jcat and your vet. Steroids have side effects so if your vet doesn't feel treatment is necessary at this point I think that is a reasonable decision. I would watch it though and have it rechecked in 1-2 weeks if it does not go away, or immediately if it gets worse.
post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
Well, we've been watching it closely and...

It went from that bump in the photo, which was centered a little to the left, pronounced and with a bit of pink coloration in the middle of his very black lip.

Now, the bump is not as pronounced and the pink is gone. It looks like it's centered in the middle of his lip now, but may be very slightly wider side to side than it was. It's very hard to see and tell if it's even an abnormality now, it just looks like a lip that's slightly larger than it was before. If I were seeing him for the first time I wouldn't even notice it.

I suppose this means it's healing on it's own? We have dutifully washed his now-ceramic water bowl every couple of days, and given him only filtered water. I wonder if that was it, after all...
post #24 of 24
Hopefully it is healing - it should disappear entirely to be sure, though. I'd really recommend the salmon oil capsules, which might be enough on their own to make it go away entirely.
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