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Will Someone Explain this to Me?

post #1 of 27
4/12/05 at 10:44am
Thread Starter 
I could not believe my ears when I heard about this, this morning. Cardinal Bernard Law was asked to peform the first mourning mass for John Paul II. The same man who "hid" sexual abuse cases in his city of Boston. The Cardinal stepped down from his post as Archbishop of Boston in 2002 under fire. And only after a long and drawn out call to do so finally touched his ears, but in my view never his conscience. If my memory serves me right, even the Pope stayed out of it for quite a while. After two weeks of much needed "good press" The RCC does this?


http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...0.html?cnn=yes

For those of you who do not know about Law, here's a background of the scandal.

http://www.mgr.org/Law.html
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post #2 of 27
4/12/05 at 10:55am
It just goes to show how out of touch the RC Church has become. That's interesting about Rivera - I hope his remark really has ruined his chances of becoming the next pope.
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post #3 of 27
4/12/05 at 11:03am
I know...there is something really sick about it. It shows how in denial they are.
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post #4 of 27
4/12/05 at 12:28pm
I usually don't comment on other people's religions as I don't really follow any of them. But this is disgusting, I really don't see why anyone would want follow a religion whose leaders are so out of touch and in being so are creating a dangerous place for children. Or even if they did want to follow it, anyone could do so with a good conscience. It breaks my heart to think that people that condone (and yes that is exactly what they are doing by brushing it under the carpet) child abuse are given places of power in a place that should be so safe for children.

It's things like this that make me ashamed to have gone to a Catholic Colloge and make me in a way ashamed of the Christian religion I follow. At any rate, every time the church makes a decision like this it chips away at the respect that I hold for them.

And just before I get flamed for knocking the church as I know it is a touchy issue with many. I don't believe that being out of touch is an excuse to send the kind of message this sends. That message being hey it's okay expose children to a dangerous predator and you won't be punished by the church. And I can assure if my religion did such I would walk away without looking back.
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post #5 of 27
4/12/05 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayKittenLove
I usually don't comment on other people's religions as I don't really follow any of them. But this is disgusting, I really don't see why anyone would want follow a religion whose leaders are so out of touch and in being so are creating a dangerous place for children. Or even if they did want to follow it, anyone could do so with a good conscience. It breaks my heart to think that people that condone (and yes that is exactly what they are doing by brushing it under the carpet) child abuse are given places of power in a place that should be so safe for children.

It's things like this that make me ashamed to have gone to a Catholic Colloge and make me in a way ashamed of the Christian religion I follow. At any rate, every time the church makes a decision like this it chips away at the respect that I hold for them.

And just before I get flamed for knocking the church as I know it is a touchy issue with many. I don't believe that being out of touch is an excuse to send the kind of message this sends. That message being hey it's okay expose children to a dangerous predator and you won't be punished by the church. And I can assure if my religion did such I would walk away without looking back.
Don't feel bad expressing this, I feel the same way. I would never slam something so personal as someone's religious choice, but how can someone feel right about this
and not be really upset? I have tried to admire the Pope, but when this comes up I am back to well...he traveled a lot...big deal.

Another thing that bother me is Bush and company are using the Pope politically and not acknowledging any of this either. Clinton made a comment about the Pope's mixed legacy, let's face it, how can any thinking person not say that? and Bush immediately countered it with "no not mixed, all great" statements, obviously courting Hispanic catholic voters.
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post #6 of 27
4/12/05 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marge
Don't feel bad expressing this, I feel the same way. I would never slam something so personal as someone's religious choice, but how can someone feel right about this
and not be really upset? I have tried to admire the Pope, but when this comes up I am back to well...he traveled a lot...big deal.

Another thing that bother me is Bush and company are using the Pope politically and not acknowledging any of this either. Clinton made a comment about the Pope's mixed legacy, let's face it, how can any thinking person not say that? and Bush immediately countered it with "no not mixed, all great" statements, obviously courting Hispanic catholic voters.
As far as Bush saying anything about religion, he sickens me when he starts going on about it. I hate it when politicans whore out their religion for votes. And that is exactly what he does.
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post #7 of 27
4/12/05 at 1:37pm
Just before we turn this into another Bush bash, let's remember the topic of the thread: recent events in the Roman Catholic church. Please and thanks.
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post #8 of 27
4/12/05 at 1:39pm
I don't get it either.
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post #9 of 27
4/12/05 at 1:51pm
You know, Bush brought himself into the subject matter by gushing about the Pope -RIGHT after Clinton had raised the point that the Pope actually truly left a mixed legacy (and we know what Clinton was referring to). So while i understand people are tired of Bush bashing, this time...man I gotta disagree. If you aren't outraged at what he said and the timing...I don't know...
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post #10 of 27
4/12/05 at 2:04pm
That was also immediately following the funeral. There's a time and a place to discuss the historic flaws of a public figure, and IMO right after he's buried is neither the time nor the place. But regardless...what Bush or Clinton did or didn't say about the Pope really has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. Neither of them have any amount of influence over the Roman Catholic Church.

I agree that having the man who enabled pedophiles to continue abusing children by shuffling them to one unknowing congregation after another to officiate at such an important and public service is just....well....sick and wrong. That Law was promoted after finding out how he covered up and not only allowed but, again, enabled a predator to gain access to more and more victims is unbelievable. Turn the other cheek is one thing, turn a blind eye is something else entirely.
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post #11 of 27
4/12/05 at 2:15pm
Ummm what world leaders accept does matter to any possible eventual reform of the RCC. Put it this way, I don't see any reform any time soon. I have every right and obligation to be upset about that.
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post #12 of 27
4/12/05 at 2:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayKittenLove
As far as Bush saying anything about religion, he sickens me when he starts going on about it. I hate it when politicans whore out their religion for votes. And that is exactly what he does.
I'm not sure if there is a "standing ovation" smiley..if there was one I'd place it next to the above post.
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post #13 of 27
4/12/05 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz
I'm not sure if there is a "standing ovation" smiley..if there was one I'd place it next to the above post.

Agreed.

And that is what they are doing, if anyone doesn't see that I don't know what denial pill you are taking but put it this way I want some! This whole going on and on about how great the Pope was RIGHT after CLinton's comment, is so obvious a court of hispanic voters. Rove is no dumby and has an agenda. And it's LONG term

Speaking of which Frontline is doing a Rove show that airs tonight I believe.
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post #14 of 27
4/12/05 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marge
This whole going on and on about how great the Pope was RIGHT after CLinton's comment, is so obvious a court of hispanic voters.
Is it in any way possible that Bush actually believes that the Pope was a great man ?

Believe it or not, not all Hispanics are Catholic that follow "lock-step" with the RCC teaching's.

Even if it IS a "court of hispanic voters" - seriously, who cares ? That's what politicians do, they capitalize on this issue or that event to gain votes. That's why they are called politicians.
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post #15 of 27
4/12/05 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bad Wolf
Is it in any way possible that Bush actually believes that the Pope was a great man ?

Believe it or not, not all Hispanics are Catholic that follow "lock-step" with the RCC teaching's.

Even if it IS a "court of hispanic voters" - seriously, who cares ? That's what politicians do, they capitalize on this issue or that event to gain votes. That's why they are called politicians.
I actually don't think Bush is burdened by deeply moral quandary's. However, no I don't think he think's the Pope is great so much as he saw a political oppurtunity. Call me a dreamer but I still hold out hope that politicians have a leg of decency. Some actually do you know.

I know all hispanics aren't catholic but the fact that many are is not lost on this administration. If you think I'm deluded watch the show on Rove on pbs tonight.
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post #16 of 27
4/12/05 at 4:46pm
I know he resigned b/c of the sex abuse scandle, but he is in charge of one of the churches in Rome. I see no problem with it, I don't agree with him lead the mass but he has a right to do so.
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post #17 of 27
4/12/05 at 4:58pm
I don't understand why Law hasn't stepped down. After all, it was under his direction that so many lives were destroyed. Ass.
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post #18 of 27
4/12/05 at 6:07pm
Thread Starter 
Even though you may have heard that politics and religion don't mix, nothing can be further from the truth. The RC Church is a political body, and not just the Catholics. Politics is preached from the pulpit by all religious leaders including, Priests, Ministers and Rabbis. While I can't speak for the rest of the world, in NYC it is very obvious. Clergymen and polititians court each other all year long, especially election time.
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post #19 of 27
4/12/05 at 8:20pm
Agreed, Barbara. Or how about in Israel, where politics and religion are merged, and in the case of the haredi/ultra-orthodox right, openly accepted and encouraged as such?

Sorry to hijack the thread for a moment there.
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post #20 of 27
4/12/05 at 9:26pm
My computer has serious limitations and I couldn't access the first news story, but I did read a USA Today story about the mourning mass held by Law. I was absolutely stunned at the callous remarks of the Catholic person interviewed in Italy. He said something about being tolerant of sin -- maybe too tolerant. Yes, OK, tolerant when it's consenting adults, but this was children. How can there be tolerance of that? I'm not Catholic but this was such a blind ignorance of the issues for Americans that it just made my brain hurt.

By the way, Bush might be courting some bloc of voters, but the Hispanic vote is definitely not tied up by the Catholic church. At least no more so than the Italian, Irish or Polish.
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post #21 of 27
4/12/05 at 10:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess
I know he resigned b/c of the sex abuse scandle, but he is in charge of one of the churches in Rome. I see no problem with it, I don't agree with him lead the mass but he has a right to do so.

That is my whole problem with this right there. He shouldn't be in charge of any church for any reason. The man condoned sexually abusing children by simply sweeping the abuse under the carpet. This is not a man that I would want envolved with leading a church period.
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post #22 of 27
4/12/05 at 10:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayKittenLove
That is my whole problem with this right there. He shouldn't be in charge of any church for any reason. The man condoned sexually abusing children by simply sweeping the abuse under the carpet. This is not a man that I would want envolved with leading a church period.
Where did Christ ever say ignore victims? I mean does anyone actually listen to Christ anymore?
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post #23 of 27
4/12/05 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marge
I mean does anyone actually listen to Christ anymore?
I am sorry but that seems very rude to say.... There are people including myself who do their best, no one is perfect, but to ask that is very insensitve to those of us who do listen to Christ....
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post #24 of 27
4/13/05 at 1:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash_bct
I am sorry but that seems very rude to say.... There are people including myself who do their best, no one is perfect, but to ask that is very insensitve to those of us who do listen to Christ....
I don't mean you or regular guys, I mean these people in power who alledge they are pious but act very insensitively and against Christ's priniples..
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post #25 of 27
4/13/05 at 3:51am
This reminds me of something my dad used to say whenever we caught him out doing something we weren't allowed to (OK it's minor stuff like slurping your tea etc.) "Don't do as I do, do as I say". This bloke Law probably has this as his motto.

Sue
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post #26 of 27
4/13/05 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayKittenLove
That is my whole problem with this right there. He shouldn't be in charge of any church for any reason. The man condoned sexually abusing children by simply sweeping the abuse under the carpet. This is not a man that I would want envolved with leading a church period.
Well said.
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post #27 of 27
4/13/05 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marge
I don't mean you or regular guys, I mean these people in power who alledge they are pious but act very insensitively and against Christ's priniples..
Ok thank you for clarifying that

Now that I know what you mean, I have to agree with you on that~
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