Best food

sharky · Apr 14, 2005

Innova in general is pricey...

petnurse2265 · Apr 14, 2005

Way to burst my ballon

about some of the ingredients I plan to talk with the trainer that we recomend through our clinic because she used to feed her dogs the BARF diet and that is what this food is supposed to be like. I know it's pricey but I will only have a small (about 10lb) dog on it as opposed to my 75lb, 65lb, and 50lb dogs that I have now.

nern · Apr 14, 2005

High protein is fine for healthy dogs. There are NO essential carbs for cats or dogs. The AAFCO recommends a minimum of 22% protein for growth and 18% protein for adult maintenance...this does not mean that higher amounts are dangerous or unhealthy. The veggies/fruits in Innova EVO are pretty far down the list...variety does not neccessarily mean large amounts are included. I really like the regular Innova. Several of my family members use it and I have used it with good results. I have not tried the EVO yet.

BTW, my dogs get cottage cheese or plain yogurt as a treat sometimes. Lactose is usually the problem when it comes to dairy products. Cottage cheese and yogurt are low in lactose which is why in moderate amounts neither is usually a problem for most dogs.

sharky · Apr 14, 2005

The dairy is personal , It would likely be the casin protien... and high Protien is linked to kindey disorders with dogs and cats..

petnurse2265 · Apr 15, 2005

I thought high protien is what you want with cats since they are true carnivores.

sharky · Apr 15, 2005

Originally Posted by Petnurse2265

I thought high protien is what you want with cats since they are true carnivores.

Cats yes... though how high and how long is being debated... My kidney girl is doing just fine on a homemade diet digestion wise that is 23-30% protien... If you try it on the kittys I would like to the results..

I was talking on the dog side they arent true carnivores..

petnurse2265 · Apr 15, 2005

But before dogs were domesticated a good portion of their food was meat protien, they didn't go through ravaging corn fields or wheats field or worrying if they got enough carbs today. This whole food issue has become so confusing.

sharky · Apr 15, 2005

Originally Posted by Petnurse2265

But before dogs were domesticated a good portion of their food was meat protien, they didn't go through ravaging corn fields or wheats field or worrying if they got enough carbs today. This whole food issue has become so confusing.

I know some wolves that do chew on wheat but it is whole and well green... YES it is very confusing

nern · Apr 15, 2005

Originally Posted by sharky

high Protien is linked to kindey disorders with dogs and cats..

Actually its not. Although it was previously thought to be, current research does not support this theory. High protein does NOT cause kidney problems in cats or dogs.

http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/kf.html#DIETARY

DIETARY CONSIDERATIONS
Contrary to popular myth, diets rich in protein ("high protein levels") do not cause kidney damage. Research done decades ago indicated that rodent kidneys were adversely affected by diets high in protein... and misguided researchers extrapolated that data to apply to the canine. There is no evidence that feeding dogs and cats diets rich in or "high" in protein actually causes kidney damage or disease. Some day this myth will be finally be put to rest. In fact, there is ample research and well documented studies that prove that dogs and cats thrive on diets with levels of protein consistent with a meat-eater's (carnivore) natural prey selection. Read more about protein in dog and cat diets here.

Additionally, documented research on dogs indicates that reducing dietary protein levels in older dogs may be unwise; however, if kidney damage is already present to the extent that the BUN levels are 75mg/dl or above, some restriction of dietary protein may be beneficial for metabolic reasons... not renal reasons. "...restriction of protein intake does not alter the development of renal lesions nor does it preserve renal function." (See KIRKS VETERINARY THERAPY XIII, Small Animal Practice, W. B. Saunders, page 861). Restricting dietary protein may be helpful to those patients whose BUN levels are rather high and that are already in advanced kidney failure.

http://www.purina.com/breeders/magazine.asp?article=256

Research first supporting the link between excessive protein and kidney disease was conducted in the 1920s, showing that male rodents exhibited progressive renal disease when fed a high-protein diet.1 Another study on rodents, conducted in 1982 by B.M. Brenner, also showed that excess dietary protein caused kidney damage.2 Though these studies were correct in rats, the results unfortunately were extrapolated to other species.

In contrast, research over the past 10 years or so has shown that protein does not harm the kidney of dogs. In studies conducted at the University of Georgia in the early 1990s, both in dogs with chronic kidney failure and in older dogs with only one kidney, protein levels as high as 34 percent caused no ill effects.3

nern · Apr 15, 2005

Originally Posted by sharky

The dairy is personal , It would likely be the casin protien...

I'm not sure what you mean by this. What would likely be the casein protein?

petnurse2265 · Apr 15, 2005

This stuff is actually good to know since I breed mice too.

sharky · Apr 15, 2005

Originally Posted by nern

I'm not sure what you mean by this. What would likely be the casein protein?

asien is a protein.. it is thru a multitude of research.. okay I was a nutritonal science maqjor / biology in school...

sharky · Apr 15, 2005

Originally Posted by nern

Actually its not. Although it was previously thought to be, current research does not support this theory. High protein does NOT cause kidney problems in cats or dogs.

http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/kf.html#DIETARY

http://www.purina.com/breeders/magazine.asp?article=256

Have they told you what does??? I have done a fair amount of research and come accross much info that says yes... it can not that it does genetics are involved I just wont take that chance ever again..

sharky · Apr 15, 2005

Originally Posted by Petnurse2265

This stuff is actually good to know since I breed mice too.

Mice??? May I ask for what purpose??

petnurse2265 · Apr 15, 2005

It started out as food for my 2 snakes, but now I deal alot with fancy mice, satin mice, and a few long-haired mice here and there. I sell to a local petstore that sells them at a more expensive price than normal feeders so that they can get pet homes. I do have mice that go as feeders but I sell to people who feed frozen food like I do (I have a CO2 chamber, I do not freeze them live).

nern · Apr 15, 2005

Originally Posted by sharky

Have they told you what does??? I have done a fair amount of research and come accross much info that says yes... it can not that it does genetics are involved I just wont take that chance ever again..

Lots of things can cause kidney problems...protein is not one of them. I have done research as well. Old research theorized that high protein caused kidney damage, current research dismisses that theory.

Causes of kidney problems..this site lists several -
http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/kf.html#CAUSES

nern · Apr 15, 2005

Originally Posted by sharky

asien is a protein.. it is thru a multitude of research.. okay I was a nutritonal science maqjor / biology in school...

Yes, I know casein is a protein. I just did'nt understand what you were responding to when you said this:

The dairy is personal , It would likely be the casin protien...

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