chicken or chicken meal?

C

cuteminicute

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Messages
35
Purraise
1
Location
Vancouver,BC
can somebody tell me what's the difference between chicken and chicken meal.

a high quality dry cat food only use chicken instead of chicken meal or chicken by-product. is that right?

THANX A LOT
 
pat

pat

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 1, 2003
Messages
11,045
Purraise
58
Location
Pacific NW
Chicken - is chicken, skin and may include some bone, no feet/feathers, beaks or intestines.

Chicken meal - a mix of chicken, connective tissue and bone, and the percentage of each in the mix may vary. So the quality of it depends on that mix percentage as well as the quality of the meat used - so brand name/and description of the quality of chicken used will matter.

Chicken meal is certainly preferable over chicken by-products or chicken by-product meal, but I would rate chicken over chicken meal if choosing between the two.
 
sharky

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
chn alone is most water , I have seen conflicting reports chn can be made up of 60-75% water ... see all pet food is heated via extruction or bakeing at temps between 400-600 degrees(this may be a little off)....so after heating the real amount of chn would be much less than chn meal since the meal is minus most fat and water... Pet food ingrdiant labels are done on the raw product not the final

ex..
made up food
chn
rice
corn
duck
sorgum
chn meal
the ingrediants are all before cooking

after cooking this is what the panel should read
rice
corn
duck
sorgum
chn meal
chn
I look for the meal first and then fresh chn for this reason ... be it a cat or a dog they need there meat..

I also did this test at home ... check the wt of the meat before and after cooking
 
pat

pat

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 1, 2003
Messages
11,045
Purraise
58
Location
Pacific NW
But my reason remains the same, in that the chicken is a higher quality protein, since "meal" can mean different things depending on the brand - how much meat to connective tissue to bone did they use? I'd rather see a brand that list say chicken, turkey, then rice etc. versus chicken meal.

It is another part of the equation when figuring out which really gives you more "meat", even though your point re actual proportion of meat once water is removed, is well made
 
sharky

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

But my reason remains the same, in that the chicken is a higher quality protein, since "meal" can mean different things depending on the brand - how much meat to connective tissue to bone did they use? I'd rather see a brand that list say chicken, turkey, then rice etc. versus chicken meal.

It is another part of the equation when figuring out which really gives you more "meat", even though your point re actual proportion of meat once water is removed, is well made
Click to expand...
check the afco standards meal cant have bone but chn can... at least that is what i have been told and seen.. meal is by defination is clean useable meat not by product which is what bone and connective tissue is ..I could be wrong, but I dont think so
 
sharky

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

click here and read "example" text
Click to expand...
interesting , that is not the definition I read right out of the aafco book.. I will try to get a copy of the exact defintion.. but afco is the american feed association or something like that ... they control feed like the usda does for us so I think i will take there guideline for now till proven by a federal agency... as I remember chn is clean meat with tendon and bone permitted in good manufacturing practice.. chn meal is the clean meat that has had h2o and fat mostly removed.. that site is not close to the true definition... I used to go with chn till I found out that bone could be in it yet meal had none..The latest I can get a copy from the handbook is end of this month
 
N

nern

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Messages
408
Purraise
1
Location
New York
Personally, I like to see both chicken and chicken meal listed in the ingredients panel.

Both "Chicken" and "Chicken Meal" may or may not contain bone. You would have to ask the manufacturer to find out whether the chicken/chicken meal in a specific brand contains bone or not.

You can find the definition of "Chicken" as well as other AAFCO ingredient definitions here:
http://www.sniksnak.com/ac/petfooddefinitions.html
 
sharky

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
Originally Posted by nern

Personally, I like to see both chicken and chicken meal listed in the ingredients panel.

Both "Chicken" and "Chicken Meal" may or may not contain bone. You would have to ask the manufacturer to find out whether the chicken/chicken meal in a specific brand contains bone or not.

You can find the definition of "Chicken" as well as other AAFCO ingredient definitions here:
http://www.sniksnak.com/ac/petfooddefinitions.html
Click to expand...
Thank you
It appears both were right and wrong..lmao...
 
pat

pat

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 1, 2003
Messages
11,045
Purraise
58
Location
Pacific NW
Sorry guys...though a number of websites only list meal as chicken reduced in size, I respect the author of the article on about.com and her example matches text found on another site which states the only difference between chicken and meal is that the meal is rendered, both are: "Chicken Meal: the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of chicken or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails." Chicken definition - just take out the words 'dry rendered product".

AAFCO stands for the Association of American Feed Control Officials, I am a bit familiar with it, though I do not get any of their publications, and they no longer publish their definitions on their website.

The about.com article I sent you a link for notes it was referring to an AAFCO definition, I would not go by any other definition.

I just must agree to disagree here. Since you are lucky enough to have a copy of the handbook coming, I look forward to hearing their definition of chicken, and the process of obtaining meal, and why meal would not contain the skin and bone that chicken may contain.
 
sharky

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

Sorry guys...though a number of websites only list meal as chicken reduced in size, I respect the author of the article on about.com and her example matches text found on another site which states the only difference between chicken and meal is that the meal is rendered, both are: "Chicken Meal: the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of chicken or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails." Chicken definition - just take out the words 'dry rendered product".

AAFCO stands for the Association of American Feed Control Officials, I am a bit familiar with it, though I do not get any of their publications, and they no longer publish their definitions on their website.

The about.com article I sent you a link for notes it was referring to an AAFCO definition, I would not go by any other definition.

I just must agree to disagree here. Since you are lucky enough to have a copy of the handbook coming, I look forward to hearing their definition of chicken, and the process of obtaining meal, and why meal would not contain the skin and bone that chicken may contain.
Click to expand...
Only thing I can think of is the fact that meal is dyhyrated meat ... hard to dehydrate bone//// but I have a meeting at the end of the month and a coworker has the book.. i will copy it or write it down...
 
sharky

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

Thank you 'cause now this is bugging me (could you tell?
)
Click to expand...
Me too...lmao...what we do for our"kids"
 
pat

pat

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 1, 2003
Messages
11,045
Purraise
58
Location
Pacific NW
Originally Posted by sharky

Only thing I can think of is the fact that meal is dyhyrated meat ... hard to dehydrate bone//// but I have a meeting at the end of the month and a coworker has the book.. i will copy it or write it down...
Click to expand...
Well this got me looking up the definition of rendering
and as I read it, it is not the same as dehdyrating. "Rendering, as defined by Webster's Dictionary, is "to process as for industrial use: to render livestock carcasses and to extract oil from fat, blubber, etc., by melting." " "Rendering separates fat-soluble from water-soluble and solid materials, removes most of the water, and kills bacterial contaminants, but may alter or destroy some of the natural enzymes and proteins found in the raw ingredients." (from "What is really in your pet food" site). So it is a wet process, versus just removing the water as one does for instance when using a dehydrator to make beef jerky or dried herbs.
 
N

nern

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Messages
408
Purraise
1
Location
New York
Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

"Chicken Meal: the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of chicken or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails." Chicken definition - just take out the words 'dry rendered product".
Click to expand...
I could'nt find a another definition for Chicken Meal other than the "chicken reduced in particle size" but I would be suprised if this was the actual AAFCO definition. What you listed above for Chicken Meal is exaclty what I thought it would be. The AAFCO definitions seem to be the same for Poulty, Poultry Meal, Turkey Meal and Chicken except for the "dry rendered" part and the specific type of poultry. I don't know why it would be any different for Chicken Meal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top