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Jane Fonda apologizes - Page 2

post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arg0
Sorry calling several hundreds of thousands of our own troops (Along with the South Korans, Aussies and the many others who served with us in Vietnam) liars, war criminals, and fraternizing with the enemy for 2 weeks and doing "Tokyo Rose" style radio broadcasts deeming our troops in combat and those held prisoner at the Hilton, there's a huge difference then Bush's DUI. There's a difference then a traitor and a common criminal. Again, like I said in my prior posts, comparing apples and oranges. I guess its okay that we also forgave Clinton when he perjured himself in court and was sent thru impeachment proceedings too eh? But yet, this is NOTHING to do with what Hanoi Fonda did and which affected several thousand troops and helped demoralize our troops, even to this day that the vets and their families are still PO'd about still. Sorry this isn't politics, it moral issues... She's pulled this stunt many times before and no one really bit and I doubt they will either to this day...
I was pointing out the incredulity of forgiving youthful discretions when they happen in the 30s or 40s, but not forgiving a persons actions that occured in their 20s. Shows a huge bias IMO, especially an anti woman bias.
post #32 of 54
If any of you want to see more about Jane Fonda and hear from her herself, she is on 60 Minutes tonight!
post #33 of 54
Wow this one is hot and I don't know a lot about it only what I have read here to be honest but always with the buts well I think it was a long time ago and it sounds like she was a bit of a dill but I am personaly more worried about whats going on here and how it will effect the world for my children and grandchildren now nobody can change what has happened in the past we can only hope to stop simmiler things from reocuring in the future.
post #34 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arg0

I understand the priorities that Vietnam veterans (and their families, relatives and friends) have. I never have thought that any of her apologies were ever sincere. Maybe it’s because I grew up with someone who was in Vietnam (my father) and maybe because back in the 80's and early 90's, over half of my friends were Vietnam Veterans. Many used the Hanoi Jane Fonda toilet paper or even the Hanoi Fonda Urinal Stickers, which to this day are still used in some American Legions and VFW posts. What *you* are comparing is apples and oranges. I didn't see any of the two gentlemen that you mentioned call the soldiers over that were serving or had served baby killers, war criminals, out right liars that the POWS in Hanoi and elsewhere were being tortured and even spitting on them when they arrived back stateside in San Francesco . This woman, and I use that word lightly, is marked forever with this "messed up actions" (I dare you to say that to a group of veterans who served over there... I dare you) that she choose to do. I have yet to meet one veteran that has one positive thing to say about her. Not one, to include myself. This is my only comment on this… continue with the bantering…

Edit: I'll add this statement that was on the Snopes site which pretty much says it all:

Whether the war was right or wrong, those who risked (and gave) their lives fighting it deserve respect, and for Fonda to brand men who were held captive and tortured as "liars" and "hypocrites" (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary) in order to defend her political views was and is unpardonable.
I totally agree, all who faught in the war deserve respect. That is my point. I think what Jane did was despicable, i think what Bush did was despicable.

We both agree on something, the vets deserve respect. It's scummy to use it against them.
post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess
I don't get why she's apologizing. This is the first I've heard of her. What is she apolgizing for?? Going to vietnam or having a threesome? Does anyone really care in the first place? I think not.

I'm not stupid everyone knows about the Vietnam War. My question is, if it is if her going over there was such a big deal, why have I never heard about it? Why is it not in the history books? That answer is b/c it's not important. Why should we care about some random person who did something 30 years ago. There were thousands of people who protested that war, why single out one person. Should they all be forced to apologize? No, they were with in thier rights to do so. I think this women just wants her 15 minutes of fame.
WOW! So....everything thats important is in history books? As I'm sure you've read by now, Fonda went WAY PAST protesting. There were many many protesters of the war, but few IF ANY were as disrespectful to the TROOPS as she. EVERY Vietnam soldier knows about her.
A LOT of people care about this. We don't all care about the same things.
post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat
WOW! So....everything thats important is in history books? As I'm sure you've read by now, Fonda went WAY PAST protesting. There were many many protesters of the war, but few IF ANY were as disrespectful to the TROOPS as she. EVERY Vietnam soldier knows about her.
A LOT of people care about this. We don't all care about the same things.
Well obviously a good many people, perhaps the majority have gotten past her actions of 40 years ago. They flocked to her multitude of movies and purchased/rented her exercise videos. It takes a lot of energy to hold onto anger, less stressful to forgive a true youthful indescretion.
post #37 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz
Well obviously a good many people, perhaps the majority have gotten past her actions of 40 years ago. They flocked to her multitude of movies and purchased/rented her exercise videos. It takes a lot of energy to hold onto anger, less stressful to forgive a true youthful indescretion.
Yeah I don't know why she brings out so much anger, she was an ill woman with bolemia. That was a hell of a long time ago. The 60's were crazy times, I mean just nuts.
My parents would tell me how dramatic it was back then.
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz
Well obviously a good many people, perhaps the majority have gotten past her actions of 40 years ago. They flocked to her multitude of movies and purchased/rented her exercise videos. It takes a lot of energy to hold onto anger, less stressful to forgive a true youthful indescretion.
You may consider it a true youthful indescretion. Thats your opinion to which you are entitled. Many disagree.

Sure, she's a popular actress.

My point really was to say WHO CARES to someone's topic is just kind of...not nice. My opinion.
post #39 of 54
Thread Starter 
You know what gets me too, is people are still angry at HER but not at the people who didn't give Vietnam vets benefits and some are homeless etc. It took Kerry and McCain to FINALLY clear up the MIA issue, that was hanging for years.
And yet it's some dumb starlet that gets all the anger, I don't get it.
post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marge
You know what gets me too, is people are still angry at HER but not at the people who didn't give Vietnam vets benefits and some are homeless etc. It took Kerry and McCain to FINALLY clear up the MIA issue, that was hanging for years.
And yet it's some dumb starlet that gets all the anger, I don't get it.
An excellent point on the Vietnam Vets Marge. I have quite a few homeless vets as clients now...but then talk is cheap. Where is all the outrage regarding that. And as far as WHO CARES...let's face it, most people have moved on. We are not talking about Hitler here. We are talking about a women who held different views than she did 40 years ago. At 49, I can think of many views I had in my 20s, that don't hold water for me now. If people need to get themselves in a lather over this, sobeit, it's your blood pressure, not mine.
post #41 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz
An excellent point on the Vietnam Vets Marge. I have quite a few homeless vets as clients now...but then talk is cheap. Where is all the outrage regarding that. And as far as WHO CARES...let's face it, most people have moved on. We are not talking about Hitler here. We are talking about a women who held different views than she did 40 years ago. At 49, I can think of many views I had in my 20s, that don't hold water for me now. If people need to get themselves in a lather over this, sobeit, it's your blood pressure, not mine.
See that's the thing, I too was the "angry young woman" in my 20's. I used to be semi femi-nazi and just angry and pissed off all the time, and then I learned to forgive and understand people etc. More for myself than anything like you say, it's so stressful to be angry all the time. People make mistakes all the time and you have to put them into perspective.
post #42 of 54
Thread Starter 
You know for what it's worth, I saw her on Letterman last night and the illfated trip to the guns was an after thought, she originally went as part of a convoy going to show attention to a levy was threatening to be bombed that would have flooded one region. She said she got caught up in a moment and kind of brought over to the guns. I dunno, I still say it's just one starlet being a jerk is all.
post #43 of 54
Alright.. I fared very poorly in my history classes and while I vaguely understood who Jane Fonda was I did not realize that she had gone to vietnam, and APPLAUDED at attacks against the US, ETC. And frankly, I'm appaled. How Awful.

I don't see how you can compare Sean Penn to her when read her actions. he is actively protesting, and that's his right, but she shouldn't have been allowed back in the US in my opinion (they've kicked people out for less.).. that was slander and it was fraternizing with the enemy and for all that I care about religion... She's going to burn in hell for belittling the fallen and tortured soldiers as she did.

And what on earth does bulimia have to do with political stances and basically telling people that the risking of their own lives was not worth the airfare to bring them back home.

Thanks guys, for teaching me something I didn't know-

D
post #44 of 54
I'm having trouble deciding what I think about this....so I'll try to explain my position as best I can...

I think that she was wrong to applaud at a plane being shot down by the "enemy". Regardless of whether you agree with a war, the death of any soldier (even enemy soldiers, IMO) is NOT cause to applaud. It's unfortunate that someone died, not a cause for celebration. It is THIS point that makes me feel she OWES an apology.

I don't think going to Vietnam was wrong. I don't think visiting the North Vietnamese was wrong, because if she didn't believe in the war, she didn't believe that they were enemies. As far as the effect on soldier moral goes, it is NOT the responsibility of those who oppose a war to keep the troops feeling like they're doing the right thing IMO (I'm not making a judgement on Vietnam here, just speaking generally).

If she gave them any information about American soldiers, locations, plans, etc then that is NOT COOL. But just a visit without helping the "enemy"....is that really traitorous? I say no (I'm sure there are MANY who will be all over me for this, but that's ok - you are all entitled to your own opinions, just as I'm entitled to mine).

I'm going to end by saying that I do agree with the statement that, regardless of whether you believe in the war or not, the soldiers serving in it deserve respect for their bravery.
However, I don't mean that they should not have to defend their actions - though by defend, I don't mean criminally. I mean by saying that "I believed in what I was doing", for example. I think that all you can do is what YOU believe to be right at that moment.

Ok, hope I'm not going to be thrown in with the sharks for this opinion....(nervous laughter )
post #45 of 54
Thread Starter 
You know what's interesting, I didn't know about her visit until like 10 years ago and I was aware of things going on during Vietnam era (I was born in 61) I mean I remember things about the war very well and my Mother would talk about current events with us, but I didn't know about Jane until a friend of mine told me cause her brother was in the military and he hated Jane.
post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leli
I'm having trouble deciding what I think about this....so I'll try to explain my position as best I can...

I think that she was wrong to applaud at a plane being shot down by the "enemy". Regardless of whether you agree with a war, the death of any soldier (even enemy soldiers, IMO) is NOT cause to applaud. It's unfortunate that someone died, not a cause for celebration. It is THIS point that makes me feel she OWES an apology.

I don't think going to Vietnam was wrong. I don't think visiting the North Vietnamese was wrong, because if she didn't believe in the war, she didn't believe that they were enemies. As far as the effect on soldier moral goes, it is NOT the responsibility of those who oppose a war to keep the troops feeling like they're doing the right thing IMO (I'm not making a judgement on Vietnam here, just speaking generally).

If she gave them any information about American soldiers, locations, plans, etc then that is NOT COOL. But just a visit without helping the "enemy"....is that really traitorous? I say no (I'm sure there are MANY who will be all over me for this, but that's ok - you are all entitled to your own opinions, just as I'm entitled to mine).

I'm going to end by saying that I do agree with the statement that, regardless of whether you believe in the war or not, the soldiers serving in it deserve respect for their bravery.
However, I don't mean that they should not have to defend their actions - though by defend, I don't mean criminally. I mean by saying that "I believed in what I was doing", for example. I think that all you can do is what YOU believe to be right at that moment.

Ok, hope I'm not going to be thrown in with the sharks for this opinion....(nervous laughter )

No sharks here..hey not even a teething goldfish!
post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marge
You know what's interesting, I didn't know about her visit until like 10 years ago and I was aware of things going on during Vietnam era (I was born in 61) I mean I remember things about the war very well and my Mother would talk about current events with us, but I didn't know about Jane until a friend of mine told me cause her brother was in the military and he hated Jane.
That's interesting. I was born in 1972, the year she went there, and I think I've always known about Hanoi Jane. Probably because my father is a Marine. But he was out by the time I was born.
post #48 of 54
Fonda's apology and regret goes only so far. Though she "regrets" the visit to the anti-aircraft gun site, she does NOT regret making broadcasts on Radio Hanoi. She was hardly some misguided young woman who didn't know what she was doing. She was a spoiled actress so full of herself that it wasn't enough to criticize the US at home, she had to do it up close and personal with the enemy themselves.

Whether or not Fonda personally considered the North Vietnamese HER enemy doesn't matter. They were killing American soldiers and were enemies of the US. That should have been enough to preclude any fraternization with them.

She had a right to her opinion about the war, but along with rights come responsibilities. Her first responsibility was to ensure that nothing she did would cause harm to any US serviceman, no matter how vehemently she believed it was wrong for them to be in Vietnam. Her "visit" gave aid and comfort to the enemy by undermining the US military. Do you know what the North Vietnamese did to our POW's?

Fonda's actions are unforgivable. In the end, her opinion was more important than the lives of US soldiers. Her self-serving "apology" just happens to coincide with the release of her book. The woman has no shame. She's a disgrace.
post #49 of 54
I'm just extremely thankful that on judgement day my God will be judging me (and any mistakes I've made due to the fact I'm human) rather than you folks.

I'm not a religious person per se, but I've always been taught not to judge others as it is God's job not mine. Also I was raised to not criticize others until I had walked a mile in their shoes.

I sincerely hope people know the person I am today is not who I was in 1960 and that is God's plan, we all grow and mature.

From reading this thread and the replies, I can tell some of you have never erred or made mistakes like some of us other humans and I tell you - you are really lucky.
post #50 of 54
Thread Starter 
The clinging to hating Fonda I think is like a mob mentality. And it has been passed down generation to geneartion so like all fueds it seems to grow stronger almost when it should disappear.
post #51 of 54
I'm so afraid you are right. A great deal of the fighting and tensions in the world today are not due to current events, but more to what happened in the past and have been passed down from generation to generation. In most cases it happened to great-great-great-great, etc. grandparents and has absolutely nothing to do with the modern day world. Unfortunately I believe that is why we will never have peace in our world. Too many folks carry too many grudges that often are not even their own but have been handed down from past generations.

Sad, sad situation.
post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz
An excellent point on the Vietnam Vets Marge. I have quite a few homeless vets as clients now...but then talk is cheap. Where is all the outrage regarding that. And as far as WHO CARES...let's face it, most people have moved on. We are not talking about Hitler here. We are talking about a women who held different views than she did 40 years ago. At 49, I can think of many views I had in my 20s, that don't hold water for me now. If people need to get themselves in a lather over this, sobeit, it's your blood pressure, not mine.
If you start a thread on homeless vets, you may see a lot of outrage, but no one was responding to that because, although its related, thats not what this thread is about. Every time someone would mention Teri Shiavo, my dad would ask - what about all the starving kids in the world? Same idea.

As far as "who cares" and people moving on... just because you have an opinion on Fonda doesn't mean you're dwelling on what she did or getting in a lather over it. Of course some people do. Others haven't heard of her. One poster who had NOT heard of her is the one who said WHO CARES. I might not care about something that happened before I was born, but I think I would just skip the post rather than respond that way.

Like I said before, people care about different things. Some people hate Johnny Cochran and others feel he was just doing his job.

I can understand why people are upset with her. To say she's unforgivable is over the top, though, IMO. As far as whether her apology is sincere, I don't know whats in her heart.

Peace.
post #53 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite
I'm so afraid you are right. A great deal of the fighting and tensions in the world today are not due to current events, but more to what happened in the past and have been passed down from generation to generation. In most cases it happened to great-great-great-great, etc. grandparents and has absolutely nothing to do with the modern day world. Unfortunately I believe that is why we will never have peace in our world. Too many folks carry too many grudges that often are not even their own but have been handed down from past generations.

Sad, sad situation.
Linda, you're absolutely right. While reading the last few posts, I was thinking about how China and South Korea are trying to block Japan's ambitions to gain a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. There are mass protests and petitions - China wants to gather 30 million signatures and hand them over to Kofi Annan. While I can certainly understand that both countries are upset that some Japanese textbooks softpedal Japanese atrocities prior to and during WWII, I really wonder when the hatred will end. The war has been over for almost 60 years, and for the most part, those responsible are dead.
There are so many other examples that it's just depressing to think about.
post #54 of 54
And Ireland is still infighting about religion (makes you wonder what religion is really SUPPOSED to be about!)
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