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Jane Fonda apologizes

post #1 of 54
3/31/05 at 2:02pm
Thread Starter 
Not enough but at least it's something

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...e102736S58.DTL
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post #2 of 54
3/31/05 at 3:44pm
Pardon my cynicism but, I think that her "apology" is more a ploy to promote her book, than a sincere expression of regret.

The first time that she "apologized", was when she wanted to shoot a movie, in a small New England town. Local veterans' groups protested and the city council refused her the necessary permits. She only seems to "apologize" when there's something in it for HER.
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post #3 of 54
3/31/05 at 3:59pm
Thread Starter 
Since I have had people never let me forget stupid things i did in my youth, (things I swear it's like it was another person since it's so far from what I do now...I was a bit confused in my youth) I do tend to forgive those who had youthful screw ups. But that's me. Plus the 60's were so difficult of a time.

But I think people should react as they feel right.

I remember David Crosby once said of the 60's "you can only apologize so much"-I'm sure HE has a lot to regret.
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post #4 of 54
3/31/05 at 4:50pm
I don't get why she's apologizing. This is the first I've heard of her. What is she apolgizing for?? Going to vietnam or having a threesome? Does anyone really care in the first place? I think not.
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post #5 of 54
3/31/05 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess
I don't get why she's apologizing. This is the first I've heard of her. What is she apolgizing for?? Going to vietnam or having a threesome? Does anyone really care in the first place? I think not.
You seriously don't know? Wow...and we were worried about education about WWII.

As it says in the article, she visited a North Vietnamese military site during the war and visited with their troops. The North Vietnamese were the enemy. An enemy who happened to be holding a LOT of our men as POWs, who she also visited while at the enemy's camp. Many of them were never returned.

As far as who cares? Just a few hundred thousand Vietnam Veterans for starters. Perhaps you remember the bumper stickers/t-shirts from this last election saying "Not Fonda Kerry"? The "scandal" when they found the pictures of Kerry at a rally with Jane Fonda? That was about the harshest insult that could be thrown at him with regards to his protesting the Vietnam War, to put him in the same category as her.

I'm not sure why the article then talked about the three-ways. Not the same category. I agree with that...Who cares?
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post #6 of 54
3/31/05 at 9:29pm
On that trip to Vietnam, she was filmed, sitting on a North Vietnamese antiaircraft gun and later laughing and clapping, when a US plane was shot down. She stood by the beds of American POWs (Sen. John McCain included) and called them "war criminals". THAT'S who cares.
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post #7 of 54
3/31/05 at 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by katl8e
On that trip to Vietnam, she was filmed, sitting on a North Vietnamese antiaircraft gun and later laughing and clapping, when a US plane was shot down. She stood by the beds of American POWs (Sen. John McCain included) and called them "war criminals". THAT'S who cares.
That is what I remember, And how many people wanted to do her harm afterward
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post #8 of 54
4/1/05 at 5:02am
Who cares about a totally insincere apology at this late date? She is a traitor, and will always be a traitor.
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post #9 of 54
4/1/05 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
You seriously don't know? Wow...and we were worried about education about WWII.
I'm not stupid everyone knows about the Vietnam War. My question is, if it is if her going over there was such a big deal, why have I never heard about it? Why is it not in the history books? That answer is b/c it's not important. Why should we care about some random person who did something 30 years ago. There were thousands of people who protested that war, why single out one person. Should they all be forced to apologize? No, they were with in thier rights to do so. I think this women just wants her 15 minutes of fame.
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post #10 of 54
4/1/05 at 1:15pm
Thread Starter 
From what I hear the war criminals part is urban legend. McCain never saw her at his prison camp. She did go to a anti artillary gun, which is bad enough. But the rest is fiction.
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post #11 of 54
4/1/05 at 1:39pm
Here again - everyone is so ready to believe whatever media story best fits their mood.

As for the Vietman war - a lot of people protested but because she WAS JANE FONDA - she got the most press and probably only about 2% of it was true.
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post #12 of 54
4/1/05 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess
I'm not stupid everyone knows about the Vietnam War. My question is, if it is if her going over there was such a big deal, why have I never heard about it? Why is it not in the history books? That answer is b/c it's not important. Why should we care about some random person who did something 30 years ago. There were thousands of people who protested that war, why single out one person. Should they all be forced to apologize? No, they were with in thier rights to do so. I think this women just wants her 15 minutes of fame.
I would dare you to say that to any man or woman who served in Vietnam. Would it be important if Susan Sarandon went and met with Osama Bin Laden now? You bet your sweet @$$ it would be!

To be this out of touch with the impact this woman, who was already a celebrity in her own right besides the fame of her father (Maybe you've heard of him...Henry Fonda?), had on that generation is a sorry statement on the education of our youth today. Jane Fonda has had more than 15 minutes of fame in her lifetime! She was a movie star, fitness guru, celebrated/celebrity wife of Ted Turner (you've heard of him, right?).

Once again, just because one person hasn't heard of it doesn't mean it wasn't important.
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post #13 of 54
4/1/05 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
I would dare you to say that to any man or woman who served in Vietnam.
What did I say? So I've never heard of this women. No I've never heard of Herny Fonda either. You are pissed b/c of that? If it was truly a big deal it would have been writen down and put into history books.
If you are mad b/c I said that no protester should apoligize there is a reason for that. To protest a war IS with in leagal rights as Americans. It is in the Constitution. The protesters felt they were doing the right thing in showing thier disapproval. Just as the government felt they were going the right thing as going to war. As Americans it is our duty to voice our concern and protest when need be.
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post #14 of 54
4/1/05 at 3:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess
What did I say? So I've never heard of this women. No I've never heard of Herny Fonda either. You are pissed b/c of that? If it was truly a big deal it would have been writen down and put into history books.
If you are mad b/c I said that no protester should apoligize there is a reason for that. To protest a war IS with in leagal rights as Americans. It is in the Constitution. The protesters felt they were doing the right thing in showing thier disapproval. Just as the government felt they were going the right thing as going to war. As Americans it is our duty to voice our concern and protest when need be.

You know I saw Denzel Washington on Letterman last night and his son (Denzels') apparently is interested in acting but was concerned that his Dad was so big how could he make it on his own. His Dad said "Have you heard of Kirk Douglas" and his son said no. Point made, of course his son HAS heard of Michael Douglas. One generations pop culture is meaningless to anothers.
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post #15 of 54
4/1/05 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess
What did I say? So I've never heard of this women. No I've never heard of Herny Fonda either. You are pissed b/c of that? If it was truly a big deal it would have been writen down and put into history books.
If you are mad b/c I said that no protester should apoligize there is a reason for that. To protest a war IS with in leagal rights as Americans. It is in the Constitution. The protesters felt they were doing the right thing in showing thier disapproval. Just as the government felt they were going the right thing as going to war. As Americans it is our duty to voice our concern and protest when need be.
You miss the point entirely. Heidi did not object to the fact that there were protests. She did point out just how anti-American Fonda's actions were, and how high-profile at the time, and expressed dismay at the education today's youth are receiving that seems to exclude some important side lights to quite recent history -- hence the fact that you had not heard of these events/people, though there are still people alive and breathing who have and to whom they matter greatly.

What she took issue with you specifically about, was your assertion that since you had not heard of these events/people, they could not be important. I daresay you have not heard all the important things that have happened. I'm sure I haven't.
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post #16 of 54
4/1/05 at 5:06pm
. . . and let's not forget that the number of important/relevant issues that are not put into most history textbooks (with the possible exception of more advanced college textbooks, for upper division classes) would take up several fat volumes . . . .. Some are left out because the issues are considered too "sensitive" for younger people (insert eye-roll) and some are left out because there isn't time to cover every detail (and for some reason it's considered more important in high school history to learn WHEN something happended than WHY . . . go figure).
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post #17 of 54
4/1/05 at 5:25pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah I don't see how we can expect kids to know movie stars from the 70'
s even. I have young friends who haven't even heard of movie and stars who are icons to my life, like "Network" (Peter Finch or Faye Dunnaway) or "Kramer vs Kramer".
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post #18 of 54
4/2/05 at 6:59am
For quite awhile, Jane Fonda was known as 'Hanoi Jane'. Her film career has been as distinguished as her father's, with Academy Award nominations for 7 roles and Oscars for 2 in the following movies:

They Shoot Horses, Don't They?
Klute
Julia
Coming Home
The China Syndrome
On Golden Pond
The Morning After

Because she was a high-profile and accomplished star, it made her actions during the Vietnam War all the more distasteful to American soldiers and veterans. She is far from someone seeking 15 minutes of fame.
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post #19 of 54
4/2/05 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel47
You miss the point entirely. Heidi did not object to the fact that there were protests. She did point out just how anti-American Fonda's actions were, and how high-profile at the time, and expressed dismay at the education today's youth are receiving that seems to exclude some important side lights to quite recent history -- hence the fact that you had not heard of these events/people, though there are still people alive and breathing who have and to whom they matter greatly.

What she took issue with you specifically about, was your assertion that since you had not heard of these events/people, they could not be important. I daresay you have not heard all the important things that have happened. I'm sure I haven't.
Exactly Fran. Thank you for seeing my point so clearly.

For instance, if someone had not heard of Fatty Arbuckle, does that mean that his role in pop culture at the time was meaningless? Not at all. In 30 years, if someone hasn't heard of Michael Moore, does that negate the impact that he had on society over the course of this past year with F9/11? Nope, it doesn't. Do you think that Michael Moore will make it into the textbooks? Most likely not. But people who are alive and politically active today will certainly remember him, like him or not.
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post #20 of 54
4/2/05 at 1:07pm
Thread Starter 
I did see a clip of her apology, I mean I felt it was sincere, she explains how bad it was, not just some flippant apology and how she was thumbing her nose at the country that had given her such privalege.

I have oft suspected she has the same mental illness her Mother had. I am not saying I let her off the hook but I don't see anything more than a confused ill woman when i see the clips of her in Vietnam.
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post #21 of 54
4/2/05 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by katl8e
Pardon my cynicism but, I think that her "apology" is more a ploy to promote her book, than a sincere expression of regret.

The first time that she "apologized", was when she wanted to shoot a movie, in a small New England town. Local veterans' groups protested and the city council refused her the necessary permits. She only seems to "apologize" when there's something in it for HER.
BOY DID YOU hit the nail on the head!
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post #22 of 54
4/2/05 at 8:05pm
Because she was a high-profile and accomplished star, it made her actions during the Vietnam War all the more distasteful to American soldiers and veterans. She is far from someone seeking 15 minutes of fame.

EXACTLY! The way she protested made our "men" doubt themselves and possibly got many killed. I dated a military man once and he HATED Jane fonda.
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post #23 of 54
4/3/05 at 11:01am
As a point of reference for those unfamiliar with WHY this is important, check out the Snopes information on it: http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

Some snipets to clarify things:

Quote:
Aside from visiting villages, hospitals, schools, and factories, Fonda also posed for pictures in which she was shown applauding North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gunners, was photographed peering into the sights of an NVA anti-aircraft artillery launcher, and made ten propagandistic Tokyo Rose-like radio broadcasts in which she denounced American political and military leaders as "war criminals."
Quote:
To add insult to injury, when American POWs finally began to return home (some of them having been held captive for up to nine years) and describe the tortures they had endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars."


Thanks Claudia!
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post #24 of 54
4/3/05 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
As a point of reference for those unfamiliar with WHY this is important, check out the Snopes information on it: http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

Some snipets to clarify things:



[/b]

Thanks Claudia!


You know the ironic thing is 40 years later a certain vet got called a hypocrite and a liar, ...I think you know who I mean. And another one got called a liar 4 years prior, by the same people. And yet everyone is still up in arms about some messed up Hollywood stars actions 40 years ago? SometimesI don't understand the priorities.
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post #25 of 54
4/3/05 at 11:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBabies
BOY DID YOU hit the nail on the head!
Hey don't forget what Bush and Company did to McCain. My gosh. And they aren't Hollywood starlets. I was disgusted by what they said about him in 2000.
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post #26 of 54
4/3/05 at 11:58am
I like McCain, despite the fact that he was in favor of invading Iraq, and I could conceivably vote for him in the next elections. Finally, a reasonable politician! One of my main objections to Bush is the way McCain was badmouthed by his (Bush's) supporters. I really believe that the country would be best served by a middle-of-the-roader, that is, somebody who has his own opinions, and doesn't bow to special interests.
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post #27 of 54
4/3/05 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marge
You know the ironic thing is 40 years later a certain vet got called a hypocrite and a liar, ...I think you know who I mean. And another one got called a liar 4 years prior, by the same people. And yet everyone is still up in arms about some messed up Hollywood stars actions 40 years ago? SometimesI don't understand the priorities.

I understand the priorities that Vietnam veterans (and their families, relatives and friends) have. I never have thought that any of her apologies were ever sincere. Maybe it’s because I grew up with someone who was in Vietnam (my father) and maybe because back in the 80's and early 90's, over half of my friends were Vietnam Veterans. Many used the Hanoi Jane Fonda toilet paper or even the Hanoi Fonda Urinal Stickers, which to this day are still used in some American Legions and VFW posts. What *you* are comparing is apples and oranges. I didn't see any of the two gentlemen that you mentioned call the soldiers over that were serving or had served baby killers, war criminals, out right liars that the POWS in Hanoi and elsewhere were being tortured and even spitting on them when they arrived back stateside in San Francesco . This woman, and I use that word lightly, is marked forever with this "messed up actions" (I dare you to say that to a group of veterans who served over there... I dare you) that she choose to do. I have yet to meet one veteran that has one positive thing to say about her. Not one, to include myself. This is my only comment on this… continue with the bantering…

Edit: I'll add this statement that was on the Snopes site which pretty much says it all:

Whether the war was right or wrong, those who risked (and gave) their lives fighting it deserve respect, and for Fonda to brand men who were held captive and tortured as "liars" and "hypocrites" (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary) in order to defend her political views was and is unpardonable.
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post #28 of 54
4/3/05 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marge
You know the ironic thing is 40 years later a certain vet got called a hypocrite and a liar, ...I think you know who I mean. And another one got called a liar 4 years prior, by the same people. And yet everyone is still up in arms about some messed up Hollywood stars actions 40 years ago? SometimesI don't understand the priorities.

Agreed Marge. It's amazing to me the a large majority of the public forgives politicians (always male) for their so called "youthful indescretions" but won't forgive Fonda. And don't you love the term youthful indescretion? In their eyes YOUTH extends into the 30s and 40s. Case in point, Bush's DWI, in his 30s, (31 or 32 maybe) which he callled a youthful indescretion.
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post #29 of 54
4/3/05 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom of Franz
Agreed Marge. It's amazing to me the a large majority of the public forgives politicians (always male) for their so called "youthful indescretions" but won't forgive Fonda. And don't you love the term youthful indescretion? In their eyes YOUTH extends into the 30s and 40s. Case in point, Bush's DWI, in his 30s, (31 or 32 maybe) which he callled a youthful indescretion.
Sorry calling several hundreds of thousands of our own troops (Along with the South Korans, Aussies and the many others who served with us in Vietnam) liars, war criminals, and fraternizing with the enemy for 2 weeks and doing "Tokyo Rose" style radio broadcasts deeming our troops in combat and those held prisoner at the Hilton, there's a huge difference then Bush's DUI. There's a difference then a traitor and a common criminal. Again, like I said in my prior posts, comparing apples and oranges. I guess its okay that we also forgave Clinton when he perjured himself in court and was sent thru impeachment proceedings too eh? But yet, this is NOTHING to do with what Hanoi Fonda did and which affected several thousand troops and helped demoralize our troops, even to this day that the vets and their families are still PO'd about still. Sorry this isn't politics, it moral issues... She's pulled this stunt many times before and no one really bit and I doubt they will either to this day...
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post #30 of 54
4/3/05 at 4:05pm
I loved the movie "Barbarella", she can do no wrong. heh *drool*

Btw, how is what she did so much diffrent then the "stars" of todays movies voicing their opinions and trying to stop the "wars". Sean Penn comes to mind actually. If she feels what she did was wrong now but did not then it is up to her to deal with it, not us. We are not her moral judges or her conscious and she is an adult.
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