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brother sister mating?

post #1 of 25
3/30/05 at 11:23pm
Thread Starter 
I need help! I am not a breeder, but my two pet moggies snuck in a mating before I had the chance to spay and neuter. My boy was neutered yesterday, but the Vet. confirmed that my little girl is expecting. I really don't care to add to the cat population, but my dear husband is uneasy about aborting her kittens. He thinks that it is wrong. My other concern is that they are brother and sister.....if we let her have her kittens, what are the chances of genetic defects?

Unintentionally irresponsible.....
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post #2 of 25
3/30/05 at 11:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dandydee
I need help! I am not a breeder, but my two pet moggies snuck in a mating before I had the chance to spay and neuter. My boy was neutered yesterday, but the Vet. confirmed that my little girl is expecting. I really don't care to add to the cat population, but my dear husband is uneasy about aborting her kittens. He thinks that it is wrong. My other concern is that they are brother and sister.....if we let her have her kittens, what are the chances of genetic defects?

Unintentionally irresponsible.....
I am far from an expert but I think there is a greater risk for problems... Do they have the same mom and dad for sure???
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post #3 of 25
3/30/05 at 11:32pm
Yes inbreeding doubles up on the genes. There are 2 genes for each trait. If you inbreed chances are that both genes may have a fault for a certain trait and there isn't a good gene to compensate for the fault. You should only inbreed when you know for certain that there are no hidden genetic defects in either parent. But the fact that the faulty gene is most likely hidden by the one good gene you wont know its there. So if you have a sister and a brother both could be carrying one good gene and one bad gene. Then they both pass that one bad gene to the kitten and the kitten now has a pair of bad genes when gives it the defect.
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post #4 of 25
3/30/05 at 11:46pm
what ever good there is is multiplied by two and whatever bad is multiplied by two.

Maverick is a bit inbred and has had quite a few eye problems maybe as a result. (she has polyps growing on her cornea)

if you dont want the kittens and dont have the time to care for them spay the female cat. having kittens will take a lot out of her so unless its something you particuarly want to do take her to be spayed.
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post #5 of 25
3/31/05 at 12:30am
Yes, it is bad on two levels...

First, the pregnant cat is just a kitty herself and it is often a complete trainwreck when the mother-to-be is less than a year old. Your girl is simply not strong enough and the litter will really struggle to survive. A queen's life is always in jeopardy when she gives birth, but an underage queen will have a very difficult time of it.

Second, the inbreeding opens you up to potentially serious genetic problems. I don't mean to disagree with maverick, but there is no genetic advantage to inbreeding so there are only the potential disadvantages to consider.

Personally, emphasizing this is my personal opinion, I would consider it inhumane to not spay right away. This is just not a good situation.

If your husband has moral issues, ask him to think things through. Will humane euthanasia be out of the question when these cats are 16 years old with failing kidneys? (I could name other examples but I'm trying to avoid stirring things up...just think of all the difficult decisions you will have to make about these cats over the next decade.) Our role as pet owners is to act in the best interests of our cats and to make decisions that have not only sensibility but compassion.
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post #6 of 25
3/31/05 at 12:40am
i dont mean to say that there is an advantage to it, only whatever 'good' traits are there will be doubled.

i dont know enough about inbreeding really to comment on the positive aspects because like most of us have only heard the disasters stories. eg. the white cat/blue eyes deafness gene
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post #7 of 25
3/31/05 at 5:43am
Just to be clear (and I realize this may not actually apply) - if you or your husband object to human abortion on religious grounds - those religious issues do not exist when it comes to animals.
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post #8 of 25
3/31/05 at 7:11am
Thread Starter 
Thankyou for all of the info. I feel terrible about this whole situation. My kitties (Hugs & Kisses) are very special to me. I found them abandoned in a box in a store parking lot. The were soaked with there own urine and very hungry. The Vet. said that they were approx. 5 weeks old. My first thought was that I couldn't keep them. I tried to take them to an animal shelter but they were all full. So I took them home and fell in love with them. (which I knew would happen)
It was a good thing that the shelters couldn't take them because within a few days of me bringing them home, the became very ill. Vomitting and diarrhea. I took them back to the Vet. and she tested them for distemper...which turned out to be positive. She said this was a death sentence for them but I still wanted to try to save them.
I took them to the Vet. every morning for injections of fluid, penecillan, and anti-nausea meds. I went to the health food store and got some AiE-10 (bovine colostrum) and Sovereign Silver, which is great for fighting viruses. I mixed these with pedialyte and AD medicated food. I syringe fed them around the clock, every 2 hours with very small amounts each time.
What a roller coaster ride. There were nights that we were sure that they were going to die but they made it through. After the worst of it passed, each day they grew a little stronger. Now they are healthy and happy.
The Vet. told me to wait to have them spayed and neutered because they needed time to build their immune systems. I think I waited too long.....I was always watching for signs of heat but either of them displayed any.
I am going to go ahead and have her spayed. My husband is going to have to deal with it. With Kisses being so young, plus brother x sister mating, and the history of distemper.....its all too risky. It's not that we couldn't handle kittens, because we could. I know I could also find responsible stable homes for them, but these little kittens would have the odds against them.
Thanks for all of the advice.
Deann
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post #9 of 25
3/31/05 at 7:34am
dont feel bad, your ding the right thing.

i hope the little guys are doing better now
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post #10 of 25
3/31/05 at 10:46am
Oh wow...with that new information about their hard background and medical problems, getting her spayed right now really is the only humane choice. That poor lil girl has already been through enough.

Good luck...and in my opinion, you are definitely doing the right thing.
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post #11 of 25
3/31/05 at 10:52am
I think that you are doing the right thing as well. I have a cat that is in surgery as we speak and she is pregnant. No big deal and better for the cat.
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post #12 of 25
3/31/05 at 11:44pm
Oh poor things. You have done wonders already. I had to wait to have Persil spayed because she had been through serious surgery and the vet wanted her to recover fully, and she also went into heat before I could have it done. Fortunately in my case there was no Tom around - but I think you are doing the right thing.
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post #13 of 25
4/1/05 at 8:43am
BTW - how old were they before you spayed/neutered them? (curious because i have 2 kittens that i plan to have spayed/neutered) and they are siblings (same mother and father).
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post #14 of 25
4/1/05 at 8:44am
I think you are making the right decision as well.
Best of luck with your kittens.
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post #15 of 25
4/1/05 at 9:38am
What a horrible situation to be in With all that you've done for your little girl and the rough start she had in life, and all the nursing you've needed to put into her to get her fit and healthy it sounds like having a litter now would be even more of a danger to her than it would to most queens of her age, and more trauma. Poor baby, and poor you too. She's so lucky to have found you, she and her brother, and it's so clear you've got nothing but her best interests at heart. Please try not to worry too much. Keep us posted on how she's doing? Thinking of you.
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post #16 of 25
4/1/05 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa
BTW - how old were they before you spayed/neutered them? (curious because i have 2 kittens that i plan to have spayed/neutered) and they are siblings (same mother and father).
A female cat can get pregnant extremely young, like only 5 months if she comes into heat then. You can never tell for sure when it will happen. They don't realize they are siblings and shouldn't mate, and they will immediately and your female will get pregnant. It is practically a guarentee.

A mother this young may not know how to properly care for the kittens and could even kill them. Just letting you know, you can have kittens fixed at 12 weeks or 2 lbs but some vets require that they wait until 6 months for some reason. If course, if your kitten comes into heat at 5 months, then you will have a whole month of trying to keep 2 mature (and horney ) kittens away from each other.
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post #17 of 25
4/1/05 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen
A female cat can get pregnant extremely young, like only 5 months if she comes into heat then. You can never tell for sure when it will happen. They don't realize they are siblings and shouldn't mate, and they will immediately and your female will get pregnant. It is practically a guarentee.

A mother this young may not know how to properly care for the kittens and could even kill them. Just letting you know, you can have kittens fixed at 12 weeks or 2 lbs but some vets require that they wait until 6 months for some reason. If course, if your kitten comes into heat at 5 months, then you will have a whole month of trying to keep 2 mature (and horney ) kittens away from each other.

Yeah my vet wont do it before 6 months and until they are a certain weight. thanks for the info. Now im totally afraid
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post #18 of 25
4/1/05 at 12:18pm
My Hershey was neutered along with his sister and brother at 13 weeks before I got him. The breeder wont let them go until the are spay/neutered.

Lisa
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post #19 of 25
4/1/05 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa
Yeah my vet wont do it before 6 months and until they are a certain weight. thanks for the info. Now im totally afraid
So how old are yours then? Is the female showing any signs of being in heat yet?
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post #20 of 25
4/1/05 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFirstRagdoll
The breeder wont let them go until the are spay/neutered.
That makes me so happy to hear!
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post #21 of 25
4/2/05 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen
So how old are yours then? Is the female showing any signs of being in heat yet?
My kittens are 3 months old. She hasnt been showing any signs...yet. But i keep a close eye on both of them. As soon as they start 'hinting', im making an appointment with the vet.
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post #22 of 25
4/2/05 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa
Yeah my vet wont do it before 6 months and until they are a certain weight. thanks for the info. Now im totally afraid
Yes, it could be too late because you have a male and a female. Female could get pregnant before 6 months. Maybe you should look for another vet. My vet also didn't want to do it before 6 months, but I have two males, so there was no chance of them mating. LOL.
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post #23 of 25
4/2/05 at 11:49am
I'd talk to the vet and see what she recommends. If the vet recoomends aborting the kittens I'd listen to her and do it.
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post #24 of 25
4/2/05 at 12:00pm
I think you've made a wise decision.
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post #25 of 25
4/2/05 at 12:57pm
You had no choice but to have her spayed.
I got lucky...our vet suggested it would be best to wait until they were 6 mo. old. When my cats, a brother & sister, were about 5 3/4 mo. old, I spotted Dexter biting his sister Sadie, on the neck and attempting to mate. They both went right to the vet for their operations. Just in time......
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