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sooz123

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Some of you may have seen my posts re: the Siamese we purchased a month ago. I am having trouble with the breeder and wanted to get other breeders' opinions on it. I'll not post the name of the breeder, still giving her the benefit of the doubt. This is going to be very long, but I want to explain the situation fully. It's really bothering me and is a huge black cloud over this whole experience.

The story goes that we searched for two weeks to find a breeder who had what we wanted when, only the one we found is several states away so he had to be shipped. She didn't require any contract, and stated multiple times that all cats were registered which was specifically what we wanted. He's already neutered, so we knew there shouldn't be any problems.

She was very nice and accommodating at first. I even spent an hour chatting with her on the phone one night. She seemed very knowledgeable and trustworthy. However, when the cat arrived we were surprised that there was nothing in the envelope but the health certificate. I asked about the registration several times via email and she never responded to that question although she responded to others within the same emails. After 2 weeks I began to get suspicious and contacted the CFA with the name of the father cat she gave me, but they could find no record of him although they did have record of her female that I suspected was the mother, but no litters that would match our kitty. I wrote her and told her what the CFA said and asked that she rectify the situation. She responded with a very defensive, very nasty email in which she directly insulted me, told us that we would get the registration, and not to contact her again. I, of course, told her I certainly will be in contact until we have the registration in our hands. More than a week later after still not receiving it, I told her that I would give her 1 more week to get it to us or we'd be sending a complaint to the CFA. The deadline was yesterday... the mail has already come again today and it's not here.

After we threatened the complaint she said she put it in the mail Monday, but if so we should've had it by now. I wrote her last night to tell her that it wasn't here but I'd give it a few more days just in case since it wasn't sent in any fashion that could be tracked. I told her I wished we could put all this behind us so that she could feel comfortable checking in on him, and explained that surely she could see how we'd be suspicious by now. I also said that I had read up on the food she feeds (Science Diet) and they say it's not very good, so I let her know we had switched him to Wellness and wondered if she might consider that, too, since he's doing so well with it. Of course, I get another crass response full of little digs and once again insulting my choice to feed him a food that was referred to me by another breeder with sick cats (a breeder I was set to get our kitty thru but it fell through when her cats came down with a virus, so of course now it's the food's fault and once again she's insinuating that I'm a bad person for daring to feed it to him). She has also denied us her usual "lifetime guarantee" due to all of the "ugliness" that has transpired, seemingly insinuating that it has all been on my part.

I know that she is a CFA registered breeder, as I found a couple of old references to past show cats of hers at CFA but nothing on the father whom she says is nearing Grand Champion. She sent three emails following that last reply with photo attachments of other cats of hers to "prove" his registered status, and still acts completely defensive, offensive, and offended that I would even doubt her, but after over a month and still no straight answer? I have no choice especially after how unprofessionally she handled herself once I finally out right questioned her on it. Ours is beautiful and undoubtedly a purebred, but I'm wondering if anyone has any insight into what the #$!* this lady must be thinking, and what I should do next.

I will be printing up all email correspondence with her to accompany the letter to CFA. I just want to avoid sending it if I can.
 

bengalbabe

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I would definately contact the CFA if she will not give you the registration papers. That's what you pay all of the money for.
And I would think about taking her to small claims court even if you have to fly to where it's at. You paid money for something that you didn't receive, period! And even if she dosent like you she is still obligated to provide whatever she agreed to in the beginning (the lifetime health guarantee) It is really unusual that a breeder would even provide a lifetime health guarantee, so I would be wary of someone who offers something like that to begin with.
Just a word of caution though. I would be careful about posting names of people who you may have a beef with. It could turn ugly and there could be lawsuits involved. I have heard of that happening too many times.
I would just be sure to take care of the problem through the proper channels.
 

hissy

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We would ask that you NOT post the name of the breeder or the cattery. If you are putting up sensitive correspondence, please delete any mention of the name of the breeder, the cattery the town the state. This is not the proper channel to report such actions in that way.
 
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sooz123

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That's not what I intended by the post at all. I've removed the statement that I was going to post the name if it turned out poorly... it was more just venting than truth anyway. No locations have been disclosed anywhere here so it can't be connected by cross referencing posts.

I'm still interested on any other take people might have on the situation. It's quite worrysome to me.

I don't believe she mentioned the "guarantee" to me before, so I'm not worried about it. I think she used it in her last email as just another dig at me. The registration is what I'm concerned about, and don't understand the attitude I'm getting from her at all!
 

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May I ask why the registration is so important to you? Also, I agree with KittenKrazy - the best avenue to pursue this is with CFA. As a Siamese cat breeder myself, I feel compelled to say how sorry I am you are having this problem. Feel free to private email or message me anytime.

Gaye
 
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sooz123

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Originally Posted by gayef

May I ask why the registration is so important to you? ...Gaye
I'd just like to get what was promised, since it's somewhat of our sales receipt. Not that we could ever love little Mika less if it turns out he's not registered! It's mostly the principle of the thing. I also have no idea when his birthday is!!! He'll need to get his gifts in a timely manner!

Thanks for the comments. I fear I've set the wrong tone with this post by saying something I didn't mean as an expression of frustration. I'm just hoping to see if there's some way I can get the darned thing and avoid having to contact them. If she really has it and was just lazy about sending it, I'd hate to have submitted a complaint over something so silly. I sure wish it would all just end and if she doesn't have it, just say so instead of stringing us along.
 

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Well, Mika is sure adorable, whether or not you get the Registration papers. When I purchased my Bengal Simba, I got papers with him, but I didn't want to spend the money to get him registered, then I lost his papers. He's still a pedigreed cat, but he's not registered, because I think it's a waste of money, unless you're going to breed them or show them.
 
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sooz123

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Originally Posted by HopeHacker

When I purchased my Bengal Simba, I got papers with him, but I didn't want to spend the money to get him registered, then I lost his papers.
I would've probably done that, too... except my husband and I were already having fun trying to think up a creative name to register him under, to pay homage to our parents who are no longer with us. So that's a disappointment, too!

I'm also reeling from the idea that I could've been so terribly wrong about this lady. She was so nice and we had such a fun conversation. I'll have lost so much faith in humankind if it turns out she has blatantly lied several times.


Mika says thanks for the compliments!
 

hopehacker

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I just wanted to tell you, I went to your website and saw Mika's pictures and his video. He sure looks show quality to me. He's absolutely beautiful, and so playful. I LOVE that video by the way, and The Stray Cat Strut was just the purrrfect background music to accompany his play.

I have no doubt that he's pedigreed. I don't know why the breeder is being such a brat about this, but Mika is...well...just a delight.
 

gayef

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Originally Posted by Sooz123

I'd just like to get what was promised, since it's somewhat of our sales receipt. Not that we could ever love little Mika less if it turns out he's not registered! It's mostly the principle of the thing. I also have no idea when his birthday is!!! He'll need to get his gifts in a timely manner!
*grin* Well, of course Mika needs his gifties on time! I feel so stupid for forgetting such an important factor! *bigger grin*

You know, you touched upon a very pertinant part of this - the Sales Receipt. Without a written, signed Sales Agreement, there isn't much you can do. I agree with you that having him registered and owned in your name is the way to go if you can get the Breeder to cooperate. However, if the Breeder is unwilling to give over the "blue slip" to you, then my first suggestion to you is to email her something like this:

"I am sorry I have been ugly about the documents. I know that we all have very busy lives and that I am placing demands on your time. I have fallen totally in love with this spectacular boy and the documents are just the icing on an absolutely delicious cake! Please let me know if I can assist you in any way to get these documents in a timely manner and again, I am sorry if I offended."

Of course, word it so that it comes from YOUR heart. I know you are disappointed, but there could be a world of reasons she hasn't done this for you yet. Give her some sugar, make her smile, try being nice to her, try being understanding so that she will think you are such a sweetie and WANT to do it for you - sometimes, being the squeaky wheel doesn't get you anything but thrown away in preference for a new wheel.

If she hasn't responded favorably within a month, then you can call CFA and find out what your options might be. You mentioned that they found Mika's mother, but that there was no information about the father or the litter. Could be that she hasn't registered the litter yet, maybe she can't register the litter and she lied to you, maybe she hasn't registered the sire yet and so can't register the litter until she does ... there are a thousand reasons the documents aren't available. Sounds to me like she is trying to buy some time though.
 

bengalbabe

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Originally Posted by HopeHacker

I have no doubt that he's pedigreed. I don't know why the breeder is being such a brat about this, but Mika is...well...just a delight.
Of course im not saying this is the case but do you think maybe there was a good amount of inbreeding going on and maybe the breeder does not want for the customer to see that on the pedigree? Just a thought. There has to be a reason and I can't think of anything else.
 

bengalbabe

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I just thought of something else. Maybe she purchase one of the parents as pet and didn't pay for breeding rights therefore she cant register the kittens!
 

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I would say that not requiring a contract is a real red flag to me. A responsible breeder would make sure that all cats who are destined to be pets are spayed/neutered and ideally, returned to them personally if the new guardian cannot or does not want to take care of the cat anymore. Failing to do this would be, in my mind, an indication that things might not be run so well in other ways too.
 

gayef

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Originally Posted by vegansoprano

I would say that not requiring a contract is a real red flag to me. A responsible breeder would make sure that all cats who are destined to be pets are spayed/neutered and ideally, returned to them personally if the new guardian cannot or does not want to take care of the cat anymore. Failing to do this would be, in my mind, an indication that things might not be run so well in other ways too.
Excellent points. ALWAYS insist on a written agreement which clearly outlines the responsibilities of the breeder AND the kitten buyer.
 
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sooz123

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Originally Posted by gayef

However, if the Breeder is unwilling to give over the "blue slip" to you, then my first suggestion to you is to email her something like this:

"I am sorry I have been ugly about the documents. I know that we all have very busy lives and that I am placing demands on your time. I have fallen totally in love with this spectacular boy and the documents are just the icing on an absolutely delicious cake! Please let me know if I can assist you in any way to get these documents in a timely manner and again, I am sorry if I offended."

Of course, word it so that it comes from YOUR heart. I know you are disappointed, but there could be a world of reasons she hasn't done this for you yet. Give her some sugar, make her smile, try being nice to her, try being understanding so that she will think you are such a sweetie and WANT to do it for you - sometimes, being the squeaky wheel doesn't get you anything but thrown away in preference for a new wheel.
Oh, how easy that sounds but how easy it's not! At this point, she's thrown so many personal digs at me, I don't know if I could lay on enough sugar in a way that would be believable to do any good. I sure did try to patch things up, but she just sent me another dig (about the food), and restated several times how since "I didn't trust her" that she wouldn't do (this, and this, and that). It may have gone too far for sugar.

You mentioned the idea that the squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease... and I know far too well what you mean! I've had far too many jobs working with the public who thought that it did get the grease. The squeakly wheel makes me want to pull my hair out instead of helping them. I guess I should've given more consideration to that... but lordie how many times do I have to ask nicely without a response? I just can't understand that if there was going to be a delay, why she didn't tell us? I would've understood and waited patiently, but with a game of such cat-and-mouse I had no choice but to start worrying that I wasn't getting the whole story!

I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, as much as I'm tempted to run Mika to the vet for a check up, just in case there's something we don't know.

Hope, Mika's sure happy you visited his site, since he worked so hard on it he's glad somebody looks. I have always loved the "Strut", so it was a natural choice.

I have to go now as he's trying to pull the scrunchie out of my hair and it's not so comfortable trying to type with a cat tugging at your head...
 

gayef

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Originally Posted by Sooz123

Oh, how easy that sounds but how easy it's not ...
I know, I know, but you can do it. I know you can. If having Mika's documents is important to you, then you will dig down deep, be the bigger person and if you have to, grit your teeth as you type the email but be sweet.

Originally Posted by Sooz123

At this point, she's thrown so many personal digs at me, I don't know if I could lay on enough sugar in a way that would be believable to do any good. I sure did try to patch things up, but she just sent me another dig (about the food), and restated several times how since "I didn't trust her" that she wouldn't do (this, and this, and that). It may have gone too far for sugar.
It never goes too far for sugar. And regarding the personal digs, so what? You are an adult, let them roll off your back! If you let your emotions get in the way, then you aren't going to get what you came after. You can be believable by being honest, but courteous. And you can try again to patch things up. Tell her you WANT to trust her - ask her again nicely to send the documents or give you the reason why she can't.

Originally Posted by Sooz123

You mentioned the idea that the squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease... and I know far too well what you mean! I've had far too many jobs working with the public who thought that it did get the grease. The squeakly wheel makes me want to pull my hair out instead of helping them. I guess I should've given more consideration to that... but lordie how many times do I have to ask nicely without a response? I just can't understand that if there was going to be a delay, why she didn't tell us? I would've understood and waited patiently, but with a game of such cat-and-mouse I had no choice but to start worrying that I wasn't getting the whole story!
I finally learned after being fired for about the bazillionth time that it wasn't my destiny to work with the public. I do much better behind a computer screen using software that normally has an 'edit' button. *grin*

The answer to your question is this: You continue to ask nicely for as many times as it takes to get what you want. You be nice. You do all the right things so nobody can ever say you weren't totally Suzie Sunshine throughout the entire wretched transaction.

I agree that she should either give you the documents or explain honestly why she cannot produce them.

Originally Posted by Sooz123

I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, as much as I'm tempted to run Mika to the vet for a check up, just in case there's something we don't know.
If you WANT to give her the benefit of the doubt, then do so. Just make the choice to be the bigger person and tell her that you really don't intend to offend or be in any other way confrontational, you just want what she promised to provide - nothing more/nothing less.

As for a vet visit, that is ALWAYS recommended within 1 to 3 days of arriving in a new home. I watched his video and well, he looks like a healthy, normal, big-footed *grin* little brown boylie wif bat ears who loves his hair scrunchies to me! ROFL

Originally Posted by Sooz123

I have to go now as he's trying to pull the scrunchie out of my hair and it's not so comfortable trying to type with a cat tugging at your head...
*chuckle* That's why I love Siamese so very much, but they certainly can be annoying little cat-like substances, can't they?

~gf~
 
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sooz123

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Well, the big drama has finally ended today!


I held out one last bit of hope that she told the truth about mailing the registration last Monday... and we got it today. I looked at the post mark and yep, she mailed it when she said she did.

The mystery as to why she didn't want to give it to us is solved, too. She told me before we bought him that he was 12 weeks old. The health certificate issued two days before we got him says 12 weeks old, too. It's rather unfortunate, then, that the registration says at that same time he was 25 weeks old!!!

So she did lie about that. She told me the father's name was something different (close, so I could've misunderstood), so that's why CFA didn't find him. I knew for certain that he was purebred, I just wanted the whole story and now I have it.

Him being 13 weeks older than she said he was doesn't amount to a hill of beans now. We'd love him even if he were 13 years older than she said. We might've, however, kept looking to see if anyone else had a younger kiddo before agreeing to it had we known at the time. Would also seem important that we know about a 3 month age discrepancy for health/shots reasons.

I'm just so relieved it wasn't kept from us for a more sinister reason that I'm happy to let it end here. I can't help but wonder, though, if just the principle in itself is reason to report the incident, since she was dishonest, just not in the way we thought. What do other breeders have to say about it, now that we know the real reason?
 

bengalbabe

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whew!... thank goodness you know know that it's nothing really serious. I would still report her she should have kept it honest and it makes honest breeders look bad.
 
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sooz123

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Originally Posted by bengalbabe

whew!... thank goodness you know know that it's nothing really serious. I would still report her she should have kept it honest and it makes honest breeders look bad.
I'll discuss it with the hubby before doing it, but I think you're right. If I do I'm going to let her know that it would've all been avoided had she just told us herself instead of dragging us through this month-long ordeal, so perhaps she'll be less inclined to take advantage of a sight-unseen sale.

Our lesson is learned, though... next time we'll travel to pick the kid up ourselves and won't leave without the proper paperwork. Mika will probably talk about it on his site, too, since he couldn't tell us himself he'll warn others to be more cautious than we were! Of course, we've brainwashed him to forget his birth parents' name so he won't mention who they are!
I feel so stupid, I kept saying I thought he was bigger than he should be... I should've just gone with my gut and asked her straight up what his birthday was.

I think Mika just gave himself brain damage by bonking his head on the keyboard tray while trying to jump in my lap. Nah, he's okay, he's just weird.
 
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