Feral or stray?

I have an outside cat... I call her an outside cat, because I don't know what else to classigfy her as. She's scared of me, and my feet, and runs from me, but I can almost always catch her. And when I get to her, she is very lovable, and she loves petting, and she rubs all up against me, and begs for attention. But, if I walk 4 steps away, and then come back, she's afraid of me, again. I've raised her last kittens, and she was fine with me around them... just a little paranoid and cautious, but, she let me handle them with no problem. When I pet her, it's like she's my pet... just as loving as can be, but any other time, she's feral. What would you classify her as... feral or stray? And, how can I stop her from being afraid of me when I approach her? I try walking slowly up to her, walking normal up to her... I've taken off my shoes and walked up to her... I've even gotten on my hands and knees and crawled to her... but she's just terrified if I approach her!? What can I do? I don't understand how she can be so loving to me one minute, and the next, be terrified?

Just to repeat the questions....
What would you call her? Feral, or stray?
How can I get her to trust me more when I approach her?

Thanks!

I would classify her as a stray. Ferals will 99.9% of the time not let you touch them, let alone pick them up and cuddle them!
As far as gaining her trust, it is a matter of time and patience. Are you in an area where it is safe to have an outdoor cat? If not, you could try to coax her indoors, or failing that, could trap her. You need to find out if she is spayed and if not, get her to a vet for spaying.

Originally Posted by Mom of 10 Cats

I would classify her as a stray. Ferals will 99.9% of the time not let you touch them, let alone pick them up and cuddle them!
As far as gaining her trust, it is a matter of time and patience. Are you in an area where it is safe to have an outdoor cat? If not, you could try to coax her indoors, or failing that, could trap her. You need to find out if she is spayed and if not, get her to a vet for spaying.

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She is not spayed, because I just raised some of her kittens. I am going to get her and another stray spayed as soon as possible. We live next to a road, and I worry about them, but, they do not go by the road at all.... they stay away from it, and are afraid of it, which is good. She has been in our house during harsh weather, and rainy conditions, away from CJ and Billy. If I could, I would let them in all the time, however, Billy is territorial, and becomes aggressive in the presence of another cat, so, we can't let them in our house. We are going to get the females spayed A.S.A.P., and keep them around, and feed them. We have three stray cats... two females (including her) and one male. The male, we are not going to neuter, because he has once been injured somehow, and has a bad leg. The poor guy can't even do a half-run. We are afraid that if we get him neutered, he would have no reason to defend himself if he needed to, and him having a bad leg that obviously bugs him, is a bad thing, because he could get beat up easily. Anyway... he is so very loving. I think he really needs a home, but, I don't want to give him to a shelter, because with him being injured, and having a bad leg, and being an older cat (about 3, I think), I'm afraid he won't find a home, and just get put to sleep. But, we are going to keep him, with the females, and get them fixed, and feed them, and care for them. Anyway... this all started about Tri-Bi, the stray female, and grew to talking about Bif, the male cat. Well, thanks for your advice, Mom of Ten Cats! I appreciated it!

No problem! You might want to look up some no-kill shelters in your area, they might be able to help you place some of the strays for adoption. Good luck to you and bless your heart for taking care of these kitties!

Originally Posted by CJandBilly

... We have three stray cats... two females (including her) and one male. The male, we are not going to neuter, because he has once been injured somehow, and has a bad leg. The poor guy can't even do a half-run.

We are afraid that if we get him neutered, he would have no reason to defend himself if he needed to, and him having a bad leg that obviously bugs him, is a bad thing, because he could get beat up easily.

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Cassie ... Cassie ... Cassie. Just what in the world am I gonna do with you, Lamb?

I truly do appreciate and applaud the forward thinking here but the direction of that thinking is a little bit off.

If you keep this male intact, this is what is going to happen:

• He will still continue to try and breed the females, whether they are spayed or not. It essentially amounts to kitty rape. It isn't pleasant for the girls and so they try to defend themselves against him. He gets hurt. They get hurt. Big vet bills happen. Possibly death. And you haven't reached the goal you set of keeping him (and the girls) safe.
• Even more females who haven't been spayed are going to start showing up there at your place because he is going to be forever letting them know he is around - he'll spray and mark and carry on like a possessed thing because he wants to - no make that - NEEDS to breed. So, you will only end up with a bunch of new girls, all pregnant and Heaven only knows what illnesses and other baddies they will bring to your already established colony. And in a couple of months, you've got a whole slew of kittens to worry about - Again, you can't even begin to hope for safety for your cats or for the new ones that show up, and let's not forget all the new kittens! The circle you've started will forever be unbroken.
• Once other intact girls start showing up, other intact males will also start to show up. Pretty soon, you've got your boy in competition with the new males because here is a whole slew of willing girls and they are going to fight over them. Your boy, with the odds already stacked heavily against him with his leg disability, is not going to come out victorious from these fight. Again, BIG vet bills, possibly death. *sigh* And, yet once again, the goal of safety for your boy, your girls, the new girls, the batches of multiple litters of kittens and now the new boys - not reached. It simply escalates until it is far, far beyond your control.

You absolutely know that I am only trying to help you understand the consequences of your decisions and that I am in no way jumping on you - I just want you to make sound decisions based on reasonable expectations. And these are some of the things you may reasonably expect.

The bottom line here, Lamb, is simple : Please Please Please - Spay and Neuter your cats. It is important, it is necessary, it is needed. They will be happier, safer, healthier and in the long run, you have the warm-fuzzy of knowing you did the right thing for them.

~gf~

All hail to Gaye, the voice of reason-

Originally Posted by gayef

Cassie ... Cassie ... Cassie. Just what in the world am I gonna do with you, Lamb?

I truly do appreciate and applaud the forward thinking here but the direction of that thinking is a little bit off.

If you keep this male intact, this is what is going to happen:

• He will still continue to try and breed the females, whether they are spayed or not. It essentially amounts to kitty rape. It isn't pleasant for the girls and so they try to defend themselves against him. He gets hurt. They get hurt. Big vet bills happen. Possibly death. And you haven't reached the goal you set of keeping him (and the girls) safe.
• Even more females who haven't been spayed are going to start showing up there at your place because he is going to be forever letting them know he is around - he'll spray and mark and carry on like a possessed thing because he wants to - no make that - NEEDS to breed. So, you will only end up with a bunch of new girls, all pregnant and Heaven only knows what illnesses and other baddies they will bring to your already established colony. And in a couple of months, you've got a whole slew of kittens to worry about - Again, you can't even begin to hope for safety for your cats or for the new ones that show up, and let's not forget all the new kittens! The circle you've started will forever be unbroken.
• Once other intact girls start showing up, other intact males will also start to show up. Pretty soon, you've got your boy in competition with the new males because here is a whole slew of willing girls and they are going to fight over them. Your boy, with the odds already stacked heavily against him with his leg disability, is not going to come out victorious from these fight. Again, BIG vet bills, possibly death. *sigh* And, yet once again, the goal of safety for your boy, your girls, the new girls, the batches of multiple litters of kittens and now the new boys - not reached. It simply escalates until it is far, far beyond your control.

You absolutely know that I am only trying to help you understand the consequences of your decisions and that I am in no way jumping on you - I just want you to make sound decisions based on reasonable expectations. And these are some of the things you may reasonably expect.

The bottom line here, Lamb, is simple : Please Please Please - Spay and Neuter your cats. It is important, it is necessary, it is needed. They will be happier, safer, healthier and in the long run, you have the warm-fuzzy of knowing you did the right thing for them.

~gf~

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I didn't really think of that. I guess we really should get him neutered, too. Thanks for the advice. I gotta jet... in a hurry. Once, again, thanks!

A cat who will let you pick him/her up is stray, not feral. However, keep in mind that there is spectrum. This cat definitely had close interaction with humans early in life, but it's not possible to know what the nature of that interaction was, how long it lasted, or how long ago it was. All these things play into the cat's behavior around humans.

Regardless, it sounds like she has plenty of common sense and is appropriately wary around unfamiliar or startling situations. This is the #1 key for an outdoor cat's long-term survival and it sounds like she has it down. She might appreciate being able to spend time indoors with a person, or she might really want to stay outdoors where she currently lives - each cat is different in that regard.

Just on the stray vs. feral question...

A feral cat is completely wild -- so the cat in question is not anywhere near that. What you describe is most likely a stray who would quickly re-acclimate to being a happy housecat if someone were to rescue her off the streets. Maybe she would be a touch shy at first.

By contrast, Nano was definitely semi-feral when I rescued her off the streets. She will always exhibit significant aspects of wildness. I had to completely re-train her to use a litter box. I am still the only one who can touch her. She has warmed to receiving petting from me but is barely tolerant of any real handling I need to do. I could go on and on...but I'd say 98%+ of cat owners wouldn't want Nano in their household. That's what a semi-feral cat is like. She has significant positive qualities (in my opinion), but many other pet owners would not see things the same way.

Originally Posted by Nano

Just on the stray vs. feral question...

A feral cat is completely wild -- so the cat in question is not anywhere near that. What you describe is most likely a stray who would quickly re-acclimate to being a happy housecat if someone were to rescue her off the streets. Maybe she would be a touch shy at first.

By contrast, Nano was definitely semi-feral when I rescued her off the streets. She will always exhibit significant aspects of wildness. I had to completely re-train her to use a litter box. I am still the only one who can touch her. She has warmed to receiving petting from me but is barely tolerant of any real handling I need to do. I could go on and on...but I'd say 98%+ of cat owners wouldn't want Nano in their household. That's what a semi-feral cat is like. She has significant positive qualities (in my opinion), but many other pet owners would not see things the same way.

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The distinction really is even more muddled than that (and yet in other ways, even more clear-cut - how's that for crazy?). Feral is really defined in terms of the cat's socialization with humans, particularly its presence or absence in the first few weeks of life, and much less in terms of how the cat responds to interaction from humans.

A cat who cowers in a corner when you try to touch him is just as feral as the cat who runs frantically around the room trying to get away. It's just that they are demonstrating their fear in a different way. A more practical example is with feral kittens. Some 8-week-olds come at you tooth and nail, biting and scratching with every ounce of strength they have. Others will cower in a corner and hiss and when picked up, will curl up in a ball and try to hide in the crook of your arm. Both kittens are equally feral, but the first kitten will be very difficult (and probably impractical) to tame sufficiently to make him a candidate for adoption because he simply cannot be handled safely. The second kitten, in contrast, will be relatively easy to tame because he is easily handled and therefore can be socialized.

The difference between feral and tame is really the presence or absence of the element of "wildness". Feral cats are wild animals, regardless of how they interact with humans. Tame cats are not wild and while those who have lived outdoors for a long time have developed the wariness that is part of the "street smarts" required for survival, it's not the same as feral behavior. Essentially, a feral cat will always regard humans as foreign. They may learn to trust the person who feeds them, and they may even form a very strong bond with one or more persons, but the cat does not identify with humans as a species. The tame cat, in contrast, due to his socialization with humans from a very early age, identifies completely with humans and does not regard them as foreign entities.

This distinction is even obvious when you see cats who were brought in from the outdoors even as early as 6 weeks of age. The only circumstances under which I have seen even a kitten lose pretty much all feral tendencies is when they are living in an office where there are a dozen or so people around all day every day and giving them almost constant attention, plus the normal organized chaos of other people constantly coming and going, delivery people bringing big boxes, etc. And even when this happens, it takes months - and it doesn't happen for every kitten.

Though the average feral-born kitten retains vestiges of his feral roots throughout life, tamed feral kittens still make great companions. In fact, their increased tendency to bond very strongly to one person is considered by many to be a positive trait. A feral-born cat may always run and hide when the doorbell rings, but he'll also probably love his human more than anything else in the world.

And then, of course, there are the cats usually described as "semi-feral". I personally don't like the term because I don't think it's really accurate (semi-feral cats are pretty much feral cats who know the human brings his dinner), but at the same time it's useful because it does communicate a lot about the cat's temperament (basically, that the cat is not really socialized with humans but also won't freak out just from having you around). These cats do form bonds with humans, but it's important that the human understands and respects their true nature and doesn't go out every day with the intention of evaluating their behavior for signs that they have "tamed up" and are therefore ready to be adopted. Rubbing against the caregiver's legs, allowing himself to be stroked, maybe even purring and letting himself be picked up - these are all signs that the person and the cat have formed a real bond, and it is a great thing. But it doesn't mean that cat would be remotely happy to be taken home and expected to live as an indoor-only pet.