How would you handle this?

I have seen my Grandson, Noah, about 2 times a year from the beginning 5 years ago. My Son and his Mother never married. They do not get along and she blames him for some vandalism, and everything else that goes wrong in her life and calls to tell me every time he supposedly does something. Her new illiterate boyfriend actually called my cell phone and left a message, I no longer have the message, that he was going to "_ _ _ _ my Son up". I know for a fact this most recent incident my Son was nowhere around her home. The other times I was not a witness to his whereabouts so I can't say, but she has other people who very possibly could've done this. This most recent incident happened the night my daughter got married this past Saturday. She told me that none of my Son's family, including me, will ever see my Grandson again because of this. She picked this fight with me and after years of her stupidity I finally told her she was a B_ _ _ _ , and I didn't have to listen to her bull. My Son has no visitation at all and hasn't been allowed to see him for well over a year. He will not pay child support for her to spend on herself (I know, he should) so I know he has no legal rights to see him. She lives with her parents who live comfortably. During this recent conversation she told me we are so beneath her because her Dad makes what he does, and we live in a "piece of _ _ _ _ house". That is not true either. We make $XXK (she doesn't know what we earn) a year and I assume he makes $XXXK. Why this matters, I have no idea. She herself has nothing of monetary value. She actually told me I can't afford to do anything about this. She is very wrong and plays this child as a pawn from several different angles. Her parents wanted her to move out a while back and they would not pursue it because she would take Noah and they don't know how they would live. Her parents love Noah very much. A few weeks ago I called to talk to my Grandson and when I talked to her after we were finished she sweetly told me to call anytime. I seriously think she has mental problems and this will or already has an effect on my Grandson. There has got to be something I can do about her. I love Noah, and she is wickedly spiteful.

It's probably tough for her to have no hard feelings when your son pays no money for the support of his son. I'm sorry, but regardless of his feelings of how she will spend the money, that child is biologically his, and he has an obligation to contribute to his support.

She told me not to bother to send him cards or presents or whatever, that she would throw them away and he would never see them.

I guess it's hard to understand how difficult/impossible she can be without having dealt with her. It's hard to hold back and I have done it for a very long time. Until now.
She is unreasonable and everything that I told her, she is.

Remember she is telling me a lot of things that you would only say when trying to instigate a problem. Being degrading about something she knows nothing about, telling me over and over what a horrible person I am and my son is a piece of _ _ _ _.

Maybe I shouldn't have brought this up here.

As for my son, I already said I know he should pay.

Has your son thought of filing for custody? Have you thought of filing a lawsuit yourself for visitation rights? They do that sort of thing for grandparents, now. Unwed parents are so common that a lot of the old rulings are being overthrown. It might be something to think about.

Has your son thought of filing for custody? Have you thought of filing a lawsuit yourself for visitation rights? They do that sort of thing for grandparents, now. Unwed parents are so common that a lot of the old rulings are being overthrown. It might be something to think about.

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And it would help if your son paid child support. I know it may not seem right, but as far as family court is going to be concerned, if he isn't contributing to support of the child, he'll never win a custody case.

I have no idea how your son acts or how she acts. The bottom line is that they both need to grow up and act like parents. If I were you I would try to start off on a new foot with your grandson's mother. Stay out of the business between her and your son and tell her that you are doing so, and that YOUR priority is only to be a participating grandparent. Then tell your son to grow up and pay child support and that you are staying out of their business from now on. It's up to him to decide he's ready to be father. If he's not, there's no reason you can't be partipating grandmother. If what you say about her is true, don't stoop to her level, try to rise above it... maybe engage the other grandmother's help in trying to get started anew.

But trust me, stay out of it between your son and her if you want to stay involved with this child's life.

The first thing I thought of is to work with the other grandmother - then maybe you can both knock some sense of responsibility into your respective children, who are using their child as a pawn in their battle. If she loves Noah as you say she does, then she might be willing to help. You could even occasionally start to send things to him through her, though I would be careful of doing that too much at the beginning, as it might seem that you are only escalating the conflict.

Originally Posted by ComeresMom

And it would help if your son paid child support. I know it may not seem right, but as far as family court is going to be concerned, if he isn't contributing to support of the child, he'll never win a custody case.

I have no idea how your son acts or how she acts. The bottom line is that they both need to grow up and act like parents. If I were you I would try to start off on a new foot with your grandson's mother. Stay out of the business between her and your son and tell her that you are doing so, and that YOUR priority is only to be a participating grandparent. Then tell your son to grow up and pay child support and that you are staying out of their business from now on. It's up to him to decide he's ready to be father. If he's not, there's no reason you can't be partipating grandmother. If what you say about her is true, don't stoop to her level, try to rise above it... maybe engage the other grandmother's help in trying to get started anew.

But trust me, stay out of it between your son and her if you want to stay involved with this child's life.

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I told her over and over I have no control over him and I do not want to be involved in their problems.
I want to be his Grandmother and what she has going on with my Son, is between only her and my Son.
She does not listen and calls to tell me when he does anything.
She called him 2 weeks ago with info about her new boyfriend having been arrested for DUI and for my Son to call his work and tell them so he would lose his job. My Son never made the call.
Obviously he wasn't the only one she called, because he lost his job because his work found out. Then told me on the phone during this that whatzizface is gonna kick his *** for calling his work and getting him fired.

There is no going back with this psycho.
The only way I will ever see him is to go to court.

Good morning pjk5900!!! I hope that I can help you out here, even if its just a little.
First, let me tell you, that my brother-in-law has found himself in almost the same situation. He was 15 when he got his girlfriend pregnant. She had a baby boy, named Patrick. When my husband and I started dating, and I met Patrick for the first time, I didnt see a lot of Charlie in him. And here we are, 6 years later, and he does a DNA test after she threatens for child support. At the age of 15, neither one really set out to have things done the right way. For years, Charlie gave her money, and when he got a decent job, he put Patrick on his insurance so the child could get to the doctor. Over the years, there have been signs of abuse, but no actual proof..she blamed Patrick having cavities on Charlie, the list goes on and on. She used that child as a pawn. So, Charlie wanted a DNA test. He got it, and Patrick is not his child BUT because his name is on the birth certificate, he still not only has rights to the child, but has to pay child support to the mother.
If I were you, I would direct your son to go down to social services, or contact an attorney to find out what rights he really has. If he goes to court, he will have to pay child support, unless he gets custody. And then she has to pay child support. But your son has to prove he can provide a more stable environment for the child, and can be a better parent. He needs to make sure that no matter what, everyone understands that he only gets to see the child when SHE decides that he can. He also needs to let them know that the boyfriend has violent tendencies, and has made threats. Unfortunately, your grandson may end up in foster care for some time until it gets settled, I dont know.
All I can tell you is that you guys really need to find out what your rights are. If your sons name is on the birth certificate, and a DNA test proves he is the father, then not only does he have paternal rights to the child, but he also has monetary obligations as well, which you already admit. You're right, you arent your son. And its really aggarvating to see a loved one shelling out $600.00 a month, and the child is still wearing old shoes and clothing. Charlie started buying Patrick what he needed and only giving Kim half of what she wanted.
Good luck with it. And dont let her or her boyfriend get to you or your son. I would have called the police had I had a threatening message on my voicemail, whether directed to me or not. And the mother may have mental issues, or she may just be a winch like you said who is hellbent on keeping control of you.
When it comes to the money situation...6 of one, and half a dozen of another. She needs to get over herself, and think of that child, who needs his father. No matter what.
Definitely look into your rights as the childs paternal grandmother, and your son as the father.
Good luck again.

I only brought up the support issue because it will weigh if you decide to pursue some other course of action. The woman does sound like she has issues, but being an unconnected observer, I can see where her issues may stem from the fact that your son hasn't done his part for the child. In a perfect world, she would let you see the child because you are the grandmother, but people often hold grudges.

if you cant buy him presents why not start a savings account putting aside what you would have spent on cards/prsents every month. that way when he's 18 you can hand it over to him and he can put the money towards moving away fom his harpy of a mother.

i agree that you should try to approach the other grandparents but maybe try once more with the mother. write her a letter telling her you want to start a fresh and maybe meet for coffee so she can explain her side of things. true she may well turn out to be insane or she could jusy simply be acting irrationally out of hurt and anger.

which ever it is at least you would have given it your best shot.

If your son wishes for visitation rights with his son, he should speak with a lawyer about legitimizing the son since he was never married to the father. This is a rather long legal process, but well worth it in the end if he wishes visitation with Noah.

I think the main thrust of your post is that you want to have a relationship with Noah. I'm with Jennyranson about trying to talk to the grandmother, especially since Noah and his mom live with her. Maverick-Kitten has a great idea too about the savings account.

As far as letters go, consider keeping a copy of all the letters you send. That way when Noah gets older and wonders why you haven't kept in touch, you can show him that you tried.

1. We are not trying to get custody, neither is my son.
2. I do not think her parents would be civil. They think I am protecting my son who their daughter tells them did this damage to her Dad's car. (Someone put an AX through the hood supposedly). Another time someone took two complete wheels off the side of her Mother's car overnight. The 3rd incident was when they ran into each other at a bar and someone keyed her car. I know who did that for a fact and it was not my son.
3. The courts would never take him away from his Mother unless there was some sort of abuse or not being cared for. He is very well taken care of moneywise. She will only put expensive name brand clothing on him, etc.... I was thinking earlier I bet she let him hear everything that is going on. I know he is a very smart boy, and hopefully he will see her for the manipulating person she is someday.
4. There has never been a paternity test, but he looks just like his Daddy
5. I like the idea of the savings account, I will set up something at the bank.
6. Her issues are the result of her own life experiences, and were in place long before my son came into the picture. I tried to tell him before she got pregnant the 2nd time that he didn't know what he was getting himself into with her. The 1st pregnancy she had an abortion after they told me I was going to have a grandchild. Her parents told her she had to, or find a new home. Daddy's money was more important. So 3-4 months later she got pregnant again on purpose. They threatened to kick her out again, but never did.
7. What does legitimizing his son mean? His name is on the birth certificate.
8. She does not want child support because that means she would have to let my son have visitation. (I can hear you all saying nah, not possible but she says it) Why do you think she has never taken him to court for it?
9. Yes, my son needs to take responsibility. I am not denying that. Can a person change anyone but themself? No.
End of Lecture.

aww but you can take her to court for not letting you see her son.
like you can set your self out that you are the grandma and that you want to see him with out your son.

This is a very difficult very emotional situation. There will be no "winning" here. I think legal action is the only viable option you have. The suggestion I make is to please please send every letter and gift as you normally would. Do it simply, without issue. And yes, record every time you send anything. My thought is that this woman, who obviously feels VERY wronged by your son, needs to be given a chance to see if she really witholds your harmless letters/cards/gifts. It is very likely she says hateful hurtful things to you because she feels wronged and hurt. Maybe she doesnt, and says them just because she knows how they can hurt you. In any case, believing she wont pass the contact on and not sending anything, might set you up for a further attack by her - she will later be able to claim you never even sent him a birthday card....good luck with everything.

here in the uk they are becoming very keen on grandparents rights. it maye well be possible to take her to court for visitation as courts are recognising the importance of an extended family.

this is such a tough situation as it means you may have to swollow your pride and keep your thoughts to yourself in order to forge some sort of relationship with the mothe rin order to be able to see Noah