What Breed/What Mix? Russian Blue?

Okay... I'm not sure if this is okay to post here, but I wasn't sure where else to post it...

I KNOW he's not a full breed Russian Blue -- he's a shelter rescue... but I was wondering what mix he might be, if he's surely got some Russian Blue in him, or if it's something else?

He's about a year old.
He's solid grey-blue. I can't quite tell if he has the double coat or not.
His tail, the last 1/2 of it has VERY faint striping... rings that are just very slightly darker grey.
His eyes are yellow, but have a green ring around his pupil.
No pink paw pads -- those are charcoal grey.

Here's a picture:



If personality traits help: He's affectionate - VERY - likes to do head-butts. He has a higher pitched meow, almost chirpy but still a mee-oww. He just came home today, so I can't tell if his jumpiness to new sounds and movement is typical or just because of his new surroundings, but once he's comfortable, man is he! He likes to play, but it seems that even when he gets "rough and tumble" the claws don't come out.

What do the experts think?

Eye closeup if it helps...

I am likely wrong... not a breeder but that looks like a chauduex(sp)... not a russian blue.. could be lighting at the time of the pic

I don't know, but I'd like to have him lol

He is one handsome cat!

Chartreux maybe? -- though they are quiet and this guy does meow. Also the green ring around his pupil is closer to Russian Blue since Chartreux have gold-amber eyes. Being he's so young (about a year) it's hard to know how big he'll get. A Chartreux can take 3 years to get to full size and is considered a big cat. Cosmo has a big head and big feet, so it appears he still has some growing to do. I'm away from the Korat for the color... it's not the darker grey, more the real silver blue grey. I flash reflected light off the ceiling and the brown blanket which I know makes him look less that color -- I'll try to get a better picture to show his color later.

All the pics I've seen of the British Blue -- the body/head shape doesn't fit at all... but the colors of the coat seem right -- especially this one -- that's exactly how the rings on Cosmo's tail looks, though it's only the last 1/2 of the tail.

How do you identify the "double coat"? He seems to have the "downy" undercoat if I'm looking for the right thing. Funny though, the coat around his head and neck is MUCH thicker than along his body. His fur feels like silk.

Not that any of this is important to me like I MUST know -- I just think it's fun to try to figure out

Well, the first thing I notice that is similar to the Russian Blue in the whisker pad area, and the mouth. Russian Blue's look to me, like they have a permanent smile on their face. That's why I think your new baby could have some Russian Blue in him. He could also have some Tabby in him as well. I would say, he's a domestic shorthair, and probably one of the many breeds in him is probably Russian Blue, alone with several other breeds, that I just have no idea what they are.

He is a beautiful boy, though, and he looks so intellegent.

This shows his color more accurately...

What a gorgeous cat. Kinda looks like Meishka (Ali012281's cat)... my first thought was a hint of Russian Blue in there.

the second pic looks more like a russian...

Whatever your handsome boy is, he is definately one thing.... GORGEOUS!

Hi Amy. Well, he's certainly a cute little guy, and it sounds like you're enjoying him thoroughly, which is the important thing!

However, I can state with confidence that he's not a Russian Blue, and even "part" Russian Blue does not exist in the RB breed standard. To be a RB in any way, the sire and dam must both be purebred and registered under a cattery name.

Ethical and reputable Russian Blue breeders either have their kittens spayed/neutered before they leave the cattery, or, in the contract that must be signed by the both parties, the kitten must be spayed/neutered before a certain date. Anyone breeding an RB unbeknownst to the breeder would have some serious legal implications on their hands.

The Russian Blue breeders in North America are a somewhat small community who are keenly aware of any RB rescues, unethical breeding practises, and are concerned with breed preservation (they spend a LOT of time and money on doing so - it's a labour of love more than anything!). In addition, the breeders I know screen potential buyers extensively before selling them a cat in order to avoid engaging in legal issues (I considered breeding RB's at one point, and used to show my older cat, so I have a bit of insight into this).

As for appearance, Russian Blues must have silver tipping on the guard hairs, the eyes must be a vivid, emerald green, and paw pads must be mauve in colour. If you're interested in learning more about the breed, please look at the current CFA or TICA breed standard. A good place to learn about RB's is at www.russianblue.org.

I hope that helps, and at any rate, enjoy your DSH kitty the way he is! He sounds very sweet. Though I have 2 RB's, I've always had a thing for DSH black kitties, and always will.

Originally Posted by ComeresMom

Okay... I'm not sure if this is okay to post here, but I wasn't sure where else to post it...

I KNOW he's not a full breed Russian Blue -- he's a shelter rescue... but I was wondering what mix he might be, if he's surely got some Russian Blue in him, or if it's something else?

He's about a year old.
He's solid grey-blue. I can't quite tell if he has the double coat or not.
His tail, the last 1/2 of it has VERY faint striping... rings that are just very slightly darker grey.
His eyes are yellow, but have a green ring around his pupil.
No pink paw pads -- those are charcoal grey.

Here's a picture:

If personality traits help: He's affectionate - VERY - likes to do head-butts. He has a higher pitched meow, almost chirpy but still a mee-oww. He just came home today, so I can't tell if his jumpiness to new sounds and movement is typical or just because of his new surroundings, but once he's comfortable, man is he! He likes to play, but it seems that even when he gets "rough and tumble" the claws don't come out.

What do the experts think?

Click to expand...

Vespa,

Thanks for all the info -- a lot of that I did read/know already, especially about the strict adherence to ethical breeding practices -- I know Russian Blues are actually a pretty rare breed. I guess I just always suppose there might be a kitten or cat that gets lost/gets out and breeds unknowingly, or breeds with another cat in the house by an oops. I surely didn't for one sec think he was a pure breed, but am always just curious how kitties get their markings

I will certainly enjoy him and love him a lot (and looks who's sitting here next to me watching me type -- he's such a handsome boy whatever he in, and has the temperment of a pure-hearted sweety.

Amy

Amy, you're very welcome. Your post brings back memories from when I used to show Mik, and I would often hear people say "That looks just like my (insert grey cat's name here)!". Usually the kitty is called Smoky.

You certainly seem educated about the breed, which is definitely more than the average cat show goer - kudos! But I completely understand wanting to know where your kitty comes from... it's kind of like us wanting to learn about our own family history.

Yes, your little guy sounds absolutely adorable, and a good companion is the best thing you could want in a kitty! Once I actually get some pictures scanned, I will be sure to post some of my little guys.

My first kitty was a DSH called Midnight - and of course, he was black!

I would just like to say that I'm pretty sure it happens. Merlin, along with a couple litters a year that are dumped at this one lady's house, seem to be half-Russian Blue. There is a breeder not far from the shelter, and one must wonder how careful they've been. Not all breeders are responsible, unfortunately. Neither are buyers.

I did a lot of research when I got Merlin as well. I know that blue cats do show up in domestic short hairs. But Merlin has the double-coat, silver tipped guard hairs, mauve paw pads, tipped tail, large whisker pads, large ears, the line of hair across his chest, and is a very large cat overall. The only defects are his orange-green eyes, a button on his chest, and the fact he's polydactyl. We've seen a lot of cats at the shelter that are look-a-like purebreeds. While I know that they aren't Russian Blues, I think the facts are enough to say they have some in them.

It's likely he may not have significant purebred lineage at all. I frequently hear people calling gray domestic shorthaired cats "Russian Blues", when in fact they're not - as is often evidenced by parents or siblings who have completely different colored coats!

The basics of the genetics, as I understand it, is that there is one gene for coat color and another gene that turns the color "on" (full color) or "off" (dilute/muted color), with the "on" gene being dominant. Black and gray are essentially the same color, genetically, in that they are both coded by the same gene. But black cats have the "on" gene that gives them full coloring, while gray cats have the "off" gene that produces dilute coloring. This is why you'll often find black kittens and gray kittens in the same random-bred litter.

The basics of the genetics, as I understand it, is that there is one gene for coat color and another gene that turns the color "on" (full color) or "off" (dilute/muted color), with the "on" gene being dominant. Black and gray are essentially the same color, genetically, in that they are both coded by the same gene. But black cats have the "on" gene that gives them full coloring, while gray cats have the "off" gene that produces dilute coloring. This is why you'll often find black kittens and gray kittens in the same random-bred litter.

Click to expand...

Okay, this does make total sense to me.
But of course, more questions

He is grey (or blue), but his coat has the silver tipped hairs... very clearly. I'm not sure how to tell if he has a double coat. It almost seems like he does, but I really am not sure. There does seem to be a downy undercoat that upon close inspection looks "crimped" or wavy... but again, I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Would these two traits (silver tipped hair and double coat) be typical of any non-lineaged domestic cat?

When I look at Cosmo's coat it isn't just muted black.

As I mentioned in a previous post (I believe it was on this thread), unless BOTH the sire and dam of the cat in question are registered Russian Blues from a REGISTERED cattery, the cat in question is not considered a Russian Blue in any way whatsoever.

As you're familiar with the breed, then I'm sure you are aware that Russian Blue breeders in North America not only painstakingly adhere to maintaining the breed standard, but they are kept aware of any unethical breeding practices from various resources, which are then dealt with through the courts (I was seriously considering breeding Russian Blues at one point, so I'm aware of the legalities involved).

I imagine you can understand how Russian Blue breeders get annoyed when people insist their blue DSH cat is half/part/a tiny bit Russian Blue. Again, if said cat does not meet the BREED STANDARD (ultimately CFA's) in ALL respects, it is considered a blue DSH. For more information, you're welcome to contact CFA or TICA for clarification.

Actually, I would really appreciate it if you would PM me with the information on this potential unethical breeder of "Russian Blues", so I can forward the information to a registered Russian Blue breeder in that state. Thanks very much.

Originally Posted by wodesorel

I would just like to say that I'm pretty sure it happens. Merlin, along with a couple litters a year that are dumped at this one lady's house, seem to be half-Russian Blue. There is a breeder not far from the shelter, and one must wonder how careful they've been. Not all breeders are responsible, unfortunately. Neither are buyers.

I did a lot of research when I got Merlin as well. I know that blue cats do show up in domestic short hairs. But Merlin has the double-coat, silver tipped guard hairs, mauve paw pads, tipped tail, large whisker pads, large ears, the line of hair across his chest, and is a very large cat overall. The only defects are his orange-green eyes, a button on his chest, and the fact he's polydactyl. We've seen a lot of cats at the shelter that are look-a-like purebreeds. While I know that they aren't Russian Blues, I think the facts are enough to say they have some in them.

Click to expand...

Thank you.

And thanks for introducing Genetics 101 to the thread! It's actually the scientitic key to cat breeding.

Originally Posted by vegansoprano

It's likely he may not have significant purebred lineage at all. I frequently hear people calling gray domestic shorthaired cats "Russian Blues", when in fact they're not - as is often evidenced by parents or siblings who have completely different colored coats!

The basics of the genetics, as I understand it, is that there is one gene for coat color and another gene that turns the color "on" (full color) or "off" (dilute/muted color), with the "on" gene being dominant. Black and gray are essentially the same color, genetically, in that they are both coded by the same gene. But black cats have the "on" gene that gives them full coloring, while gray cats have the "off" gene that produces dilute coloring. This is why you'll often find black kittens and gray kittens in the same random-bred litter.

Click to expand...

vespacat, if a cat that is a registered Russian Blue, fathers a kitten with a domestic short hair cat, why wouldn't you be able to say that the cat is 'part" Russian Blue, or a Russian Blue mix? I don't understand. I mean if you have a cat with one of it's parents being a Siamese, and the other being a DSH tabby for examaple, the kitten is considered a Siamese Mix or part Siamese. Isn't Russian Blue a breed just like the other pedigreed cats? Or is it just more a a look? I don't understand why a cat can't be Part Russian Blue, if it has a Russian Blue Parent. I realize it wouldn't be considered a Russian Blue, just like a cat that is only part Siamese wouldn't be considered a Siamese.

Also, on the note that a cat can't be the breed, if it isn't registered. I purchased Simba, my Bengal and I got papers with him, where I could get him registered and choose a name, but it cost around $25 to send it in, so I didn't bother doing it, because I didn't intend breeding or showing him, so I don't think he's registered. Maybe he is, under the breeders name, I don't know, but he is a real Bengal. He's not a Domestic Short Hair. He does have papers, but I didn't register him.