Pledge of Allegiance

Yes, it should definitely be brought back and children should be required to recite it every morning in school, regardless of religion. It is bad enough that bleeding heart liberals finally got prayer out of school, the pledge has nothing to do with religion and should never have been removed from schools or public gatherings. One of my fondest memories of my school days was my 1st grade teacher leading us in The Lord's Prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance every morning before we began our lessons. It led to history lessons and learning what it meant to be proud to be an American. Thanks, Miss Edmonds, where ever you are!

Yes, yes, yes!!! I just did a speech in my speech class regarding separation of church and state and the TRUE intention of the writers of the constitutional ammendments. (Got an 'A' on the speech even though my professor didn't really agree... I had too much evidence supporting my side!) I personally think it's sad that just because the pledge contains the word 'God' it's considered offensive to some.

Especially now because there is such a surge of patriotism in the country and it is up everyone to keep it alive. I remember standing by the side of my desk, hand over my heart in homeroom saying the pledge every day. I also remember the freeze bell at recess and duck and cover drills too. Older than the hills, that's me...

At my son's school here in MA, they say the Pledge of Allegiance every day, and they also sing a patriotic song. I don't know if its mandatory here or not, but they do it.

At my school, we require all children to at least stand for the Pledge every day. Children of some faiths, Jehovah's Witness in particular, do not have to recite the Pledge, as it goes against their religious beliefs to do so.

All this loss of patriotism is not a recent development. A 28-year-old friend admitted to me that he doesn't even know the words to "God Bless America". He revealed that to me the day that Congress opened by singing it after Sept. 11. That gave me the idea to resurrect these songs at school.

Yesterday at school we had a rally for Veteran's Day. We gathered all the students and had a supposed sing-along of all the patriotic songs we had been learning. It bothered me that many (read most) of the teachers didn't even join in. I don't care how lousy I sing; you're gonna hear my voice. Guess I'm just a diehard American.

As to the prayer in schools issue, I spent a semester studying it in a School Law course. It is interesting stuff.

I'm not sure about prayer in school. I think since we are not such a Christian country any more, it's probably for the best. Otherwise to preserve equality you would have to have prayers from other religions too, at least you'd have to do different religions on different days, and someone would get offended. The first time a fundamentalist prayed for the conversion of non-believers, that would be a problem. Or someone would freak when it was the pagans' turn.

But patriotic songs should be okay. We are all Americans (not on this board, in the US) and the few students who aren't are still here because their family thinks the US is better than where they were. So you'd think more people would be familiar with the music.

I wonder why we are embarassed to feel patriotic? Is it such a simple emotion in this era of urbane cynicism? Is it because younger people see themselves as part of the world more than part of a specific country? Is the line too fine between patriotism and cliche or patriotism and imperialism (entitlement, colonialism, manifest destiny)? I would like to think we are modest, that we have become aware how much influence we have and are working to be inconspicuous, but I don't think that's accurate. I notice that people seem to mock sentimentality and I wonder if this is part of the same attitude.

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Night,

Actually, I knew that. My parents were big folk music people so I grew up listening to that stuff. It has breatly affected both my politics and my taste in music. Darn parents! They didn't even know they were doing that! lol I'm embarassed that I couldn't come up with Woodie Guthrie's name on my own, though. I was like "I KNEW that!" It just seems that kids only learn the first 3 verses.

sun-- yeah - I grew up only learning the first few parts to that song and all this time I thought it was supposed to be "good." That is until this class. wow! I never realized it before this fall --- I always thought folk music was so layed back, but they (the singers and authors of the songs) were really a "stirred" up group.

Oh yeah, mule trains are much more reliable, I take one to work everyday - haha :tounge2:

I voted yes, and as usual, I have a comment to make, and danged if I'm not gonna make it....

Deb25......your comment I have copied and pasted is awesome....

Quote by Deb25..

What needs to be brought back is kids learning all the patriotic songs, like "America", "America the Beautiful", "God Bless America", "You're a Grand Old Flag" etc. I began a campaign to teach our kids at school these songs after Sept. 11. Too many had never heard the songs we sang every day after the Pledge.

and Sunlion, your comments,...
Quote by sunlion......

I'm not sure about prayer in school. I think since we are not such a Christian country any more, it's probably for the best.

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Who says we are not such a Christian country???????? I would still like to think we are.

As opposed to what? An atheist country? I think not.

Sunlion, I just reread my post, and I hope I didn't sound like I was being mean, I think you have a right to your opinion as does everyone else. Guess it is just a touchy subject for me right now. I hope I didn't offend you. That was not my intent.

I agree with you Deb, who says? Just because we don't always "stump" for Jesus online, doesn't mean we don't love Him for what he did for us. Maybe if we don't "flame" people to get our point across, were just whimps, or heaven forbid, unChristian? I gave up posting for some time and then came back and read several post. The same ole stuff is going on. Can I get under your skin, get a barb in maybe.
Maybe say something but just under the line and not totally out of line, then...I was only kidding.
OK, I've sounded off, I feel better and I'm ready to get to bed so I can get up and go to church in the morning.
Any flames, I'll read tomorrow.
Jeannie

Jeano, I do understand what you are saying, and I agree, but I was just addressing the fact in point of America, and I think you are are addressing a much bigger issue. (although I do agree with you)

I hope I didn't upset anyone....
Since when did schools stop pledging the flag? I haven't said the Plegde of Allegiance since I was in grade school. In high school we weren't required to say it. Here's my thought: I am patriotic, but I don't think it should be required to say it in schools. I don't think it should be forced, either. Just because we don't say it doesn't mean we don't like America. I am proud to be an American and enjoy the freedom. I couldn't imagine not having freedom! The same thing goes for religion being preached in schools. I think it is wrong.... There are so many different religions, that I don't think it is appropriate... there is someone always bound to be insulted, etc. I remember also last year sometime I read on another BBS that there was a law that was going to allow California school systems to teach to accept gay children & that it was ok. Now, imo, that is just plain wrong to bring something like that type of topic into schools......

I hope I haven't started something........ just stating my opinion

Tigger, you brought up many valid points, and I respect your opinions!

I voted no, but I'm not an American so you don't have to count my vote

Coming from a country that has been at war with its neighbors practically throughout its existence, I don't feel the need to encourage patriotism at our schools. We don't have anything like this pledge or prayers and I wouldn't like them to start it here. People here are very aware of their patriotism and I don't feel that there is a need for added encouragement at schools.

Actually, the challenge here is to teach children to respect other nations around us and to keep hoping for peace. It is far more important IMO to teach them about the brotherhood of human kind and to discourage radical nationalistic tendencies (which are closely related to patriotism and have very different implications here). So, again, you don't need to count my vote as it doesn't necessarily reflect on the American system.

As for Christian prayers... well, I have family in the US and I know that had I been living there I wouldn't like my children to be forced to pray for Jesus. Not all Americans are Christians and I think it's not fair to impose the faith of the majority on the minorities. I think that saying that children of other failths won't have to pray the Christian prayers is not enough - kids can be very cruel towards anyone who's different and the children who will be silent while they're friends pray can suffer later on from bullying and such or just generally feel outsiders. This by the way, has nothing to do with the pledge IMO.

We are talking about an allegiance to the flag. It is a pledge, not a prayer, and the only reason the line "One Nation Under God" even exists in the original version, is because when the Pledge was initially written, the nation was together under one God. There were no immigrants in the nation at the time, there were no alternative religions. It was written to let everyone know that the allegiance was swaying from the King of England to the United States of America.

If you have a relationship with God, any God, you do not have an "allegiance" to that power, you have an "alliance" with that power. To ask school kids to stand once a day in school and take one minute out of their day to pledge to this great country, is not in my opinion out of line. When I was in school there was the pledge, there was also prayer before meals in the cafeteria, and later as I moved up in grades there were organizatons like Campus Crusade for Christ, Horizon Club and many other organizations that were asked to come into the campuses because there was a very real communist threat back then and the fear was that the kids would be swayed to communism because there were no other outlets to look at.

If children do not want to say the Pledge of Allegiance, then they can stand and say nothing. We are at war now and patriotism is at an all-time high. Again, this has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with pride in the great country. I just wonder what is next? Change the national anthem to another song more PC? I sure hope not!

huh?

Debby,

I'm not offended, but I want to give you a good response, so I'm going to think about this a while and get back to you. It's hard to have the minority opinion, and I want to present it in a way that it makes sense and is not offensive. Plus, I want to be clear that I am talking about our culture as a nation and about Western culture in general, not about people's personal beliefs. In fact, I am Catholic, so I'm hardly anti-Christian. But as other non-Christian religions grow in popularity and size, we are losing hegemony, which is threatening to some people. And some aspects of our national identity are shifting to represent that change. Lack of institutional prayer in school doesn't seem like a big loss, if we value our respect for individual diversity and the separation of church and state. National values do not always reflect personal values - as no doubt all pacifists have noticed in the past 2 months.

Anyway, it's kind of a big topic and I'd like to give you a response that explains why I've reached that conclusion, so it's going to take a little while. Unless you'd rather I didn't, you're call. And I'm not offended if you don't want to hear it.