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inappropriate peeing - getting her to pee outside!!

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I've read the above 'sticky' but I can't really find anything that solves my particular problem. I'm pretty stressed out right now so I hope you guys can help.

one of my two 6 month old kittens - minnie - has been peeing inappropriately.

When I got home from work today, I noticed she had pus and blood coming out of her anus. Alarmed, I phoned the vet who said she is in heat. She's already booked in to be neutered on Friday and he said she's peeing inappropriately because she's in heat. I've been keeping all our doors tightly shut but SOMEHOW she's still getting in!!!

I'm at my wits end!!! I love this kitten, she's got such a sweet nature but I've really had enough of this!!

What's worse is that my fiance and my mother say I should "get rid of her" because "once she starts, she won't stop".

The other kitten is now house trained but I simply cannot get minnie to do it outside!! I brought the litterbox back for her but she won't use it now. She loves my bed.

I don't want to have a litter box always because it's a small house and I don't want something that stinks/is visible to guests. I've tried putting litter on the grass outside and putting her out for a few hours with the door shut but it hasn't worked so far.

I have a behavioural spray which hasn't worked, a water spray doesn't work, using a citrus smelling cleaner spray thing on areas where she pees doesn't work either!!!

Any ideas on how to get her to stop? Also, how do I clean my mattress?? I've blotted and used cleaner but I'm worried about the smell staying. I can't smell anything but my mother did when she came up today, hence the big lecture on getting rid of my cat.

Will neutering her make her stop? How can I house train her?

Please help!!! I don't want to give this kitten up, she's got the sweetest nature but I can't stand this!! I love my cat!!
post #2 of 24
First let me say I used to have indoor/outdoor cats but after learning what happens to outdoor cats and having experienced some of those things personally my cats stay indoors and I urge others to do the same. Additionally, the things I suggest are my opinions, I am not a vet and I could be wrong but they are ment with the best intentions so please don't take them to harshly. Someone please correct me if I make any mistakes.

The way I heard it.. cats in heat don't have a discharge normally. Call another vet perhaps and see if you can get a second opinion. If in doubt, take her in for a check up and please get her fixed before she gets pregant. There are way to many unhomed cats being neglected already in the world.

Once the cat starts it will never stop, is not accurate as far as where it is peeing. You need a blacklight to find the spots and the appropriate cleaners to remove all traces of the urine.

Sending a cat OUTSIDE that you are thinking is in heat is the absoutly wrong thing to do, especially if she is so young. Having kittens that early is not considered good as I understand it.

Keeping her indoors where she is safe and teaching her to use a litter box is a much better option and safer all around. It also will not end up with you having to get her fixed while being pregant and having to choose wether to risk her health having kittens that young or having the vet abort the unborn kittens.

Not providing your cat's litter boxes because "they smell" or are unsightly is very mean. Would you like not having a bathroom because your cat thinks it smells? Cats have smelling at least 14x stronger then our own and you don't hear them complaining. Also do you not find it a pain to let your cat in and out or then keep it out when you don't want it in.. if your letting it roam free?

Cats deserve at least 1-2 litter boxes PER CAT! They also sometimes are not happy going to the bathroom (both types) in the same box so having 2 is always a plus. Using appropriate litter and feeding the proper foods your cats should not be smelling up the place or causing a great mess.

Neutering generally does stop male cats from spraying but that is diffrent then just going to the bathroom. Spraying behavior spray there or trying to cover it with citrus is not the correct way to clean urine. You need a formula designed to take it out sold at pet stores and supermarkets. Some work better then others of course, but I am fairly sure they have Enzymes in them to actually neutralize and "eat" the stain. Regular cleaners just won't work and the cat will still smell it's own urine scent.

I am sure others will have more or diffrent advice for the rest of your questions or some of the same.. best of luck to you and the kitty. I also hope you are able to come to an understanding with it and the family on how to help this poor thing adjust.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirque
Sending a cat OUTSIDE that you are thinking is in heat is the absoutly wrong thing to do, especially if she is so young. Having kittens that early is not considered good as I understand it.
yes, I do know this. She is now indoors and if you had read my thread properly, I said I had brought the litterbox back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cirque
Not providing your cat's litter boxes because "they smell" or are unsightly is very mean. Would you like not having a bathroom because your cat thinks it smells? Cats have smelling at least 14x stronger then our own and you don't hear them complaining. Also do you not find it a pain to let your cat in and out or then keep it out when you don't want it in.. if your letting it roam free?
I find you very judgemental and mean yourself. I have lived with cats for more than 20 years and all of them were outdoor cats. All of my friends, neighburs and family have cats. All are outdoors. I clean my litter trays 3 times daily so yes, they don't smell but they are certainly not something I like looking at or want my visitors looking at. I have a catflap which means they can get in and out easily without it being a 'pain' to me. it is very tempting to do what you are doing and say some judgemental things myself re: keeping cats indoors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirque
Cats deserve at least 1-2 litter boxes PER CAT! They also sometimes are not happy going to the bathroom (both types) in the same box so having 2 is always a plus.
No need to CAPITALISE your words, I ain't stupid. I know this and do this.

I came here for advice and support, not for someone to hurt my feelings, act all superior, tell me how to bring up my kitties and to lecture me like a 5 year old!!
post #4 of 24
I would suggest she has a vet checkup, but as she is going in on Friday that will do it. A discharge is not normal - one of mine has just had her first heat and apart from a slight moistness there was no discharge. If a cat is sick then often it will not use a litter box as it associates it with pain.

Like you, most of my cats have been indoor/outdoor with a catflap, but I have always had litter boxes inside too as they hate going out to squat in the snow/rain etc. When I have been living in smaller places I have used covered litter boxes to hide the immediate appearance from guests, and if, as you say, they are cleaned often, there is no smell. I think the smell may be coming from not from the boxes but from other places the cat is using. As suggested, try a blacklight to identify the spots.

Good luck with it - I think you may find that she has a URI and once that is cleared up and the house cleaned of traces, that the problem will resolve itself. I hope so, for your and her sakes.
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
thank you Jenny for your comments, I fully intend to ask the vet about the discharge. I was wondering why she had suddenly started peeing inappropriately this week when she was doing ok before. She has been going to the bathroom outside no problem until this week, so she WAS getting used to it. We live in a very quiet, safe area so let me assure you all that she's not in any danger and she only pops outside for 5 mins usually. Now I know what the reason for the peeing could be, she is being kept indoors until the vet advises us on what to do. Fingers crossed it's nothing too serious. I doubt it's a UTI if it's her anus that's pus-y.
post #6 of 24
I would say your kitty needs a vet today and not Friday. Puss and blood is NOT normal for cats in heat and it could be your kitten has open pyometra, and IF she does, and if she is not treated she may die. There is clearly something wrong with her. If you don't like the litterpan in the house than put it somewhere to camoflauge it. They make wonderful hideouts for litter pans even kitty screens to put in front of the pan, or even a covered litter box.

But i urge you to please get her to a vet today

Here is a link you should read

http://www.pethealthcare.net/html/bo...a_in_cats.html
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by kizzibee
yes, I do know this. She is now indoors and if you had read my thread properly, I said I had brought the litterbox back.
You also say: "The other kitten is now house trained but I simply cannot get minnie to do it outside!!" In the same line. How am I supposed to know which your still doing or considering? You also said " I've tried putting litter on the grass outside and putting her out for a few hours with the door shut but it hasn't worked so far." and that also suggests your letting her out "while in heat" and not trying to house train her to use the litter box indoors instead.

Quote:
I find you very judgemental and mean yourself. I have lived with cats for more than 20 years and all of them were outdoor cats. All of my friends, neighburs and family have cats. All are outdoors.


I also said: "they are ment with the best intentions so please don't take them to harshly". I have lived with cat's for more then 25 years, guess I win? I asked you not to take my advice harshly, I guess you did not see that part?

Yeah I can be passionate sometimes, especially when someone is being told by family that they need to get rid of their cat and the person says they don't want to do that because they say "I love my cat".

Quote:
I clean my litter trays 3 times daily so yes, they don't smell but they are certainly not something I like looking at or want my visitors looking at. I have a catflap which means they can get in and out easily without it being a 'pain' to me. it is very tempting to do what you are doing and say some judgemental things myself re: keeping cats indoors!
Quote:
So then you didn't mean: "I don't want to have a litter box always because it's a small house and I don't want something that stinks/is visible to guests." Somehow that seems to me that you ARE concerned they will smell and that they will be visible. My goodness, is it so terrible to have a litter box and have a cat? Would guests think that much worse of you if they found out? If you clean them three times a day, why are they bad to look at? Are they not just clean boxes of unused litter?

So you have a cat flap and the cat can come and go, that is wonderful for you but do you really honestly consider that "safe" for the cat? Predators, dogs, people, poison.. none of that bothers you in the least? Or just not enough to keep your cats indoors?

Quote:
No need to CAPITALISE your words, I ain't stupid. I know this and do this.


I guess I should have used a bold tag instead just to help it stand out because I guess LARGE LETTERS are some how offensive? I was only trying to be sure you did not miss that "a litterbox" is not enough, nowhere did you mention having multiple litter boxes and infact gave the impression you did not want any in the house. No where did I call you stupid or even imply you were stupid.

Quote:
I came here for advice and support, not for someone to hurt my feelings, act all superior, tell me how to bring up my kitties and to lecture me like a 5 year old!!
Quote:
I guess you did not read MY message very closely? "Additionally, the things I suggest are my opinions, I am not a vet and I could be wrong but they are ment with the best intentions so please don't take them to harshly. Someone please correct me if I make any mistakes."

If your feeling all attacked because I am attempting to offer advice on how to look out for the best interests of your cat and being offended by it then perhaps you need to take a look at why it bothers you so much. I thought it was the cat's well being that was in question here, not mine or yours.

I appoligize for sounding "harsh", from my point of view I was being upfront and frank with my opinions and stated so very clearly not to take it harshly. Cat's have no english skills and no voice for themselves, please consider what I said with an open mind and don't take advice and opinion as an attack or someone calling you stupid.
post #8 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy
it could be your kitten has open pyometra
Can I ask what this is? You have me even more worried now!!

She doesn't seem to be in any pain or discomfort...she's eating normally, running around normally, and allowed me to clean her there without squirming in pain.

Thank you for the link.

¬Kizzi¬
post #9 of 24
I just re-read your post and pyometra doesn't leak from the anus, or at least none of the books I have here in my library says it does. If you are sure it only from the anus and there isn't a really bad odor then it could be parasites or another infection brewing. Still it would be best to get her in to be checked, because puss and blood is not a normal sign on a cat-
post #10 of 24
Pyometra is an infection of the uterus. Usually by the time you see any signs, it is very serious, and if there is discharge it is possible that the infected uterus could burst, thus infecting the blood stream. It is a very serious condition.
post #11 of 24
But again and hopefully someone in the know can correct me, pyrometra does not discharge from the anus-
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
yes, I disagree with having a litterbox when it is a cat's nature to go outside and be 'free'. It's needed if you live in an apartment, I guess or when they are young kittens. My kittens are desperate to go outside. i actually wanted to keep them indoors for longer despite my feelings as I felt they weren't ready but they wanted to go out and they've been fine.

I haven't been letting my cat out since I realised she was probably in heat. I was trying to get her outside before I realised this and she was quite happily doing her business outside and was only going out for a few minutes.

As it's a safe and cat-free area, with only about 3 houses, I still think it is okay for her to go outside but there is a litterbox indoors now anyway. there is one dog and it loves my kittens.

she knows how to use the litterbox AND do it outside but is currently refusing to do both, I want to get her to do either again instead of using my bed.

I hope that makes better sense to you than the previous posts.

Thank you for trying to help, unfortunately, you continue to mix 'help' with judgemental comments, forcing me to do likewise.
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
oh GOD. I will give the vet a phone again just now but I've checked Minnie again and it definitely is her anus, it looks funny. I'm not sure why the vet thinks this is a sign of heat although she's doing other things that show she's possibly in heat like doing a funny dance and trying to 'seduce' her brother!
post #14 of 24
About outside cats...I have nine right now, they are inside outside. We live in rural part of Oregon on a farm with four acres. Until last year, this area has been fairly safe for my cats. Because they came here in feral or semi-feral state, I too thought it wise to let them go outside. Last year, and this morning, I paid dearly for that decision, or rather my cat's did. I lost two wonderful vibrant cats because they were outside.

I am not telling you what to do. Each one of us makes our own decisions when it comes to our pets. Your initial post came across as someone not wanting to bother with the work that a litter pan entails so therefore you expect your cats to go outside. Unless you have a cat door to the outside world, you are looking at many litter pan accidents in your future. Heck, if you were close enough I would give you an enclosed litter pan cabinent that I reviewed for a merchant last year. I never use it. But cat's can't hold their urine and taking away their litter pan in the house will only serve to confuse them. You should have three litter pans ideally. If you ever watch your cats outside from a window while they are pottying, you will see them pee in one area and move off and poop in another. That's nature way and it is instinctive. Asking a cat to go in only one litter pan is unnatural for the cat and you have an easier time with two-

I am currently building a cat enclosure. Even my ferals will not be let outside anymore. The will go either in the house or this enclosure. There are to many dangers outside, even in rural areas. I just hope you will be spared any heartbreak of a cat coming home to you after losing a battle with a car-
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by kizzibee
yes, I disagree with having a litterbox when it is a cat's nature to go outside and be 'free'.
Cat's are domesticated, not wildlife.

Quote:
It's needed if you live in an apartment, I guess or when they are young kittens.
Or if you have indoor cat's that only stay indoors.

Quote:
My kittens are desperate to go outside. i actually wanted to keep them indoors for longer despite my feelings as I felt they weren't ready but they wanted to go out and they've been fine.
I am glad to hear they have been "fine", however one of your cat's is bleeding from its butt and you don't yet know why.

Quote:
I haven't been letting my cat out since I realised she was probably in heat. I was trying to get her outside before I realised this and she was quite happily doing her business outside and was only going out for a few minutes.
It only takes a few minutes for a visiting neighboors dog to get in a quick bite, a rabid raccoon to cruise through and get into a fight or for a cat to gobble up a poisoned mouse or be shoot by some kid with his new BB Gun.

Quote:
As it's a safe and cat-free area, with only about 3 houses, I still think it is okay for her to go outside but there is a litterbox indoors now anyway. there is one dog and it loves my kittens.
I am very glad to hear that, it is a small relief. I also find it wonderful that your dog enjoys the kittens as well, I hope they stay friends forever.

Quote:
she knows how to use the litterbox AND do it outside but is currently refusing to do both, I want to get her to do either again instead of using my bed.
Cat's that won't use the litterbox sometimes do that because of associating pain with the litterbox. If she is sick and has an infection that makes going painful, she may be going to your bed because that is a comforting spot for her, assuming you have spent time with her there and it is full of your scent (the person I would assume shes bonded with).

Quote:
I hope that makes better sense to you than the previous posts.[
Cats are very complex, so many things may seem similar but not be and so much we do can affect them and we never realize it so I did find more helpful.

Best luck and I hope she get's into a vet quickly. Btw, I would be slightly worried about taking her to a vet that told you it was normal for her to be bleeding out of her butt, if that was how the conversation went. Maybe they do not have much cat experience. Something to think about at least I hope.

Quote:
Thank you for trying to help, unfortunately, you continue to mix 'help' with judgemental comments, forcing me to do likewise.
Take what you can use and leave the rest. I still only have the cat's well being in mind and I hope you two have a great and very long life together.
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
Thank you Hissy for your honest comments.

My upbringing and area is very outdoor-sy. I honestly know no-one in my big family and circle of friends who keeps their cats indoors or who ever has done this. It must be a very popular american thing? So it's not natural for me to keep my cats indoors. But each to his or her own, I guess. I *did* have two litter boxes for my two kittens but the male cat has adapted easily to doing his business outdoors and no longer uses a litterbox so we have reduced this to one box for the female kitten - minnie. The kittens only go into the garden, not further. They don't go anywhere near the road, not that it's a busy road anyway. I *do* have a cat flap meaning they can come and go as they please. I am going to give Minnie another chance to get used to being outside but not for a while. I brought the litter box back and I intend to keep the litterbox for a bit longer until she's out of heat and a bit better, then I will try to get her used to outdoors again.

My mother is minding them whilst I am on holiday next month and says she will have Minnie fully trained of which I have no doubt as she has always had 4 or 5 outdoor cats since she was a kid herself. Big cat loving family.

Yes, I know cats can be injured easily by cars and I would be very upset if one did die or be injured as this has happened to me before (injury, not death) but it is a risk I will take for my cats to be happy. I know of cats that died from jumping from an apartment window trying to get outside and one from drowning in a bathtub, so keeping a cat indoors can be dangerous too.

On another note, my vet now says to bring her in first thing tomorrow morning. It is 11pm here.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
glad we ended the argument cirque. One thing though:

however one of your cat's is bleeding from its butt and you don't yet know why

Both kittens did this when I first got them, on and off for about 3 weeks, and they were entirely indoors at the time, so it could be a food thing although the food they get now is food they've been eating since the last incident and hasn't caused them problems. There are no raccoons here. (don't even know what a raccoon is) No BB guns either due to quiet area with old people as neighbours. The dog is the neighbour's not mine and it doesn't bite. It grooms my kittens like its own puppy or something...

I'm just very confused, but at least the vet is seeing her tomorrow now.

Thanks to all.
post #18 of 24
Please let us know the outcome. I am curious were the kittens ever tested for giardia?
post #19 of 24
Thread Starter 
before I leave, I also have no idea what that is Hissy, so I guess that would be a 'no'?

They have had vaccinations against things like feline leukemia and FIV and they've been wormed but i haven't heard of giardia. I will mention that to the vet, thanks.
post #20 of 24
First, allow me to say Hello and welcome to TCS. I think you will find us to be a widely diverse bunch but a fairly friendly and knowledgable group, so pull up a chair and jump in.

OK, now, let's address your problems individually so as not to get me confused. *grin*

The way I see it, you seem to have these issues currently going on:

Your female (Minnie - cute name!) has a discharge from her anus, which your vet tells you without even looking at her is due to probable estrus.

~ Don't just walk away from that vet, RUN! Any vet who would take a description of "blood and pus from the anus" as a sign of probable estrus is either a raging idiot or is cruising for a lawsuit. Now if you are 100% certain this discharge is from the anus and not from her vagina, the above would be true - BUT - if you are not certain, then what Hissy said about an open pyometra could well be the case. Pyometra is an infection of the uterus and happens in two similar, but yet different forms. An open pyo is when the uterus is indeed infected, but the infection can drain into the vagina and out of the body. It is a serious condition and requires immediate intervention in the form of IV antibiotics and fluids as well as a hysterectomy (unless the cat is currently being used in an ethical breeding program - in which case they can administer medications and try to save the uterus). A closed pyo is where the uterus is infected and the infection cannot drain down into the vagina and out of the body. The infection builds up in the uterus and with no where to go, the infection will eventually cause the uterus to burst and cause death. It is also a very serious condition and requires an immediate, emergency hysterectomy as well as follow up antibiotics and medications. As I am fond of saying ... if you ~think~ something is wrong, then it probably is. You know your cat better than anyone else. If there is a bloody discharge with pus coming from anywhere out of your cat, the chances are extremely good that the cat should see a vet - don't wait ~

Minnie may also be in estrus.

~ This is simple enough. Spay her. Get your other cat neutered as well. Problem solved. ~

Minnie is displaying inappropriate elimination behavior

~ Minnie is probably displaying this behavior for a wide variety of reasons; but most of it is probably because she is confused, sick, her homones are raging and you keep changing what you expect her to do with the litter box - go outside today, come inside and do it in the box tommorrow - it is no small wonder she hasn't a bloody clue how to act! Cats are extremely dedicated to routine and habit. If those things change frequently, their whole system of life is disrupted. The key to normalization of cat behavior is patience and consistancy. Adopt one way of doing things and stick to it. If, after 30 days, it isn't working, then go to the next thing. But give her time, give her patience, and above all else, give her the appropriate vet care to ensure her happiness and well-being. If she is sick and not feeling good, then she is telling you in the only way she knows how that something is wrong. Now that you have moved her back inside, keep her there no matter what she may want - you can't let her intimidate you - she will try to get outside and she will want very much to go out, but you are her caregiver and you know what is best for her right now. Just be consistant with it. ~

Your mother is urging you to get rid of Minnie due to either one or all of the above.

~ I am not 100% certain of what your living arrangements might be - do you live in your mother's home or do you have your own place? If you live in your mother's home, then she does have a right to expect the cat to behave with good house manners. But I disagree that you should get rid of the cat simply because Minnie isn't acting right at the moment. Get her in to the vet and take care of her health issues first. If Minnie is still not behaving appropriately after she has recovered, then we can work on those issues, but for now, the health care comes first.

And just because I think it needs to be said yet again, TCS is primarily a cat welfare web site. Many of our members are quite knowledgable about cats - like you, having shared their homes and hearts with cats for entire lifetimes. Some of us tend to be a bit more passionate than others when it comes to the general care and/or welfare of cats, so please - don't take anything anyone says to you in the way of trying to provide assistance as a personal affront. We are all only trying to be helpful. Perhaps you don't respond well to the way this member or that member communicates via the written word - but unless you are able to see the person responding and hear the tone of their voice, then you really can't presume anything. It just isn't fair to the person trying to be helpful.

I sincerelyhope this has been helpful to you and most importantly, to Minnie. Please do not hesistate to let us know how things progress. Updates and as always, pictures of your babies are not only welcomed, but insisted! *grin*

Yours from the heart,

Gaye
post #21 of 24
As usual, well said!
post #22 of 24
Hissy, my condolences about the kitty you lost today. I'm so sorry to hear that.
post #23 of 24
Honey I appreciate that she's gonna be spayed, but in the mean time.. keep er inside. you don't want a pregnant cat. also, if it's coming out of her anus, that's not a cat in heat. And furthermore, if you wanted cat, and for it to spend time inside, you can't just opt NOT to have a litterbox.. it's not right, and will lead to her peeing innappropriately, especially as a kitten that "has to go". Personally I think that if you can't deal with the box, you shouldn't have the pet.
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 
dear all.

Minnie is fine. What I saw was due to her being in heat.The vet gave her a full check and found nothing. He got another vet to check and both said it's a normal 'heat' discharge and because her vulva is near her anus, it must have looked liked it was coming from her anus. My mistake. I've never had a female cat before, all males.

She's a bit sleepy after the neutering but is eating okay and is fine.

My vet says he wishes more cat owners were like me as I always take her straight to the vet or phone if I have any questions. I spoke to him about some of the feelings on this site and all the vets there find it unneccessary to keep a cat indoors alll the time. He said a child could get knocked down too but you don't keep them indoors all the time do you? Cats can learn what's dangerous, just like kids can. He says he finds it funny how so many owners treat cats like children and act so paranoid, when it's a cat's nature to go outside and roam.

My vet rocks.

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