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Same Sex Marriage Victory

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NG8VBPIKO1.DTL

A judge in CA (a republican placed by Pete Wilson) declared not allowing same sex marraige as unconstitutional. Of course the opposition is putting the usual spin on it, twisting it to say that it's "judicial tyranny", using the "t" word when it's really them that wants to hold people back.
post #2 of 28
"If this is unconstitutional, there is another constitution to answer to, and that is the word of God," said Wang, who organized a 7,000-person rally in San Francisco's Sunset District last April against the legalization of same- sex marriage.

Isn't it interesting that that a great number of those against same sex marriage find their comfort in statements such as the one above? I'm sorry, but last time I checked God has not made an outright statement about the issue. What we take as "God's word" in the bible was not written by God, but by a host of others who inevitably put their own spin on things. Much of the bible can be construed to get whatever meaning you want from it. During the time of black segregation and slavery there were people using this same logic to support their claim, that the bible states that Africans were meant to be slaves or were of lower standing. It feels to me like a new topic, same old antiquated arguments. It makes me feel a bit sad that someone would take something like religion, that is meant to unite people and create peace, and use it to divide.
post #3 of 28
"If this is unconstitutional, there is another constitution to answer to, and that is the word of God and according to God's constitution, by treating his creations unequally and with prejudice on mere grounds of sexual preference you are in violation of it!"
post #4 of 28
I'm glad that state officials are starting to look at those gay marriage ban amendments and recognizing how unconstitutional they are. Just goes to show (as other recent events in US history have): the majority CAN be wrong!
post #5 of 28
i just saw it on CNN
IMO: i dont think its okay for them to have kids in a way... because the child doesnt see the other sex and know the meaning of Mother and father Do you get what i mean? I dont mean to offend anyone on this board, but like
Its kind of abnormal and how will they have children? through IVF? or adopting?
this doesnt mean they dont have the right to have children, i think its okay but i mean if i were the child i wouldnt know what was mum or dad.
post #6 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwan
i just saw it on CNN
IMO: i dont think its okay for them to have kids in a way... because the child doesnt see the other sex and know the meaning of Mother and father Do you get what i mean? I dont mean to offend anyone on this board, but like
Its kind of abnormal and how will they have children? through IVF? or adopting?
this doesnt mean they dont have the right to have children, i think its okay but i mean if i were the child i wouldnt know what was mum or dad.
There is no such thing as a perfect role model for children. In the end, they need love and stability. Not allowing gays to adopt or have kids is worse than not rescuing kitties I think. Cause they provide lovely homes to kids.

I am sorry, I know so many people who are destructive parents who really mess up their kids and yet are hetero. So where do you draw the line?
post #7 of 28
i know what you mean.
because my parents have pretty much messed me up over the years.
But still if they had children how would they know what a mother would be like, like a female in the house? or a man in the house?
I dont know many gay people and so far the ones i know of dont want children.
I cant conclude a line, they both have rights in the end. Hetro or non hetro.

Hmm ill have to watch cnn a bit more and get back to you later
post #8 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwan
i just saw it on CNN
IMO: i dont think its okay for them to have kids in a way... because the child doesnt see the other sex and know the meaning of Mother and father Do you get what i mean? I dont mean to offend anyone on this board, but like
Its kind of abnormal and how will they have children? through IVF? or adopting?
this doesnt mean they dont have the right to have children, i think its okay but i mean if i were the child i wouldnt know what was mum or dad.
With so many single-parent households nowadays, I really don't think it matters much that homosexuals' kids don't have opposite-sex parents living under one roof. They also have grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbors, friends' heterosexual parents, "television families", etc., meaning they don't grow up in a vacuum, and can readily find role models if they need them.
post #9 of 28
Same Sex parenting:
The most traditional way in which the same sex couple have a child is through adoption. Although if I am not wrong some countries (Sweden?) or one of the Nordic countries allows for state funds to be used for IVF.

Studies have shown that being raised in a Single parent family whether the parent is gay or straight is at a disadvantage. So be wary of studies that show children being raised by one gay parent as being disadvantaged because it is not presenting the full picture and it gives the impression that it is the sexuality that is causing the problem.

But for your two parent same sex couples there seem to be no disadvantage that is attributed to the parents. Thus any disadvantage is often the result of bigotry by others. Furthermore, children raised by gay parents seem to be more understanding of differences. And in today's globalised world (to use a cliche) such understanding is important when the children grows up and starts work.

Of course there are studies that show otherwise. But coincidently enough (or perhaps intently?) such studies are from groups that happen to have a conservative religious backing.
post #10 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpy
Same Sex parenting:
The most traditional way in which the same sex couple have a child is through adoption. Although if I am not wrong some countries (Sweden?) or one of the Nordic countries allows for state funds to be used for IVF.

Studies have shown that being raised in a Single parent family whether the parent is gay or straight is at a disadvantage. So be wary of studies that show children being raised by one gay parent as being disadvantaged because it is not presenting the full picture and it gives the impression that it is the sexuality that is causing the problem.

But for your two parent same sex couples there seem to be no disadvantage that is attributed to the parents. Thus any disadvantage is often the result of bigotry by others. Furthermore, children raised by gay parents seem to be more understanding of differences. And in today's globalised world (to use a cliche) such understanding is important when the children grows up and starts work.

Of course there are studies that show otherwise. But coincidently enough (or perhaps intently?) such studies are from groups that happen to have a conservative religious backing.
The bottom line I think is the support, single parents just have a hard time cause they *often* don't have the support. Some do I know, have a support system but many don't. If you have money it at least helps cause you can have day care etc. But on ones own it's tough. My gosh I remember a friend of mine who worked for a single Mom babysittingjust so this poor woman could go to the gym, she was terrified of getting out of shape and not meeting a man and if my friend had to cancel due to being sick or soemthing this woman would yell at her. It was so sad, she didn't feel she had prospects in her life.

My Mother was a single parent during my teen years and it was really hard. And back then there was a stigma. She did her best but was overtired. And this was before "Oprah" and other outlets for single Moms.
post #11 of 28
If more gay couples adopted/had children through IVF, the world would have that many more tolerant children and potential future leaders.
post #12 of 28
I know several gay couples with children. They are happy, loving, accepting children. They all have aunts and uncles and grandparents who show them the other "way of life" of father and mother. My cousin's brother is teaching her son to throw a ball.
post #13 of 28
I do support the ruling that the ban was unconstitutional. Marriage is an emotional choice, it is not a logical one which was the premise of the ruling....that our U.S. constitution makes no provisions to uphold marriage between solely and man and a woman on any logical argument.

We have a very powerful instrument called the Bill of Rights. The First Amendment provides us with free speech in this country....albeit to the detriment of many inflammatory subjects...but free speech. The same subject matter that inflames people but nevertheless protects then under the First Amendment is often a visceral reaction to an emotive subject and the need to speak about it in any form. Marriage is the same animal. Marriage is an emotional choice, not a logical one. While my personal, conservative preference is to have a mother/father-male/female combination, that is not always so in today's messy world. I feel that with an increasingly violent and misbeggoten culture, that ANY family unit that's a good, loving unit for a child is better than no chance at a family upbringing at all. I can't honestly say I've heard of same sex parents "training" their kids to be gay. Come ON, people!
post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwan
i know what you mean.
because my parents have pretty much messed me up over the years.
But still if they had children how would they know what a mother would be like, like a female in the house? or a man in the house?
I dont know many gay people and so far the ones i know of dont want children.
I cant conclude a line, they both have rights in the end. Hetro or non hetro.

Hmm ill have to watch cnn a bit more and get back to you later
Fwan...As to your mother question,just how are mothers supposed to act? The stereotypical mom only exists on TV and poorly written novels. I'll bet you 20 lbs of cat litter that my mom acted nothing like your mom. And your mom acted nothing like the woman around the corner. The most important ingredient in being a good mom or dad is love. Children (Girls) who grow up without a mom, still grow up feminine...though I honestly don't know what that means. Don't worry you have not offended anyone. BTW you now know one more gay person!
post #15 of 28
...20 lbs of kitty litter! Nice.
post #16 of 28
I don't understand why people can't let those people be. Let them get married if they want to how are they hurting??!!!
post #17 of 28
My curiosity is why hetero's beleive we will "condition" them to be gay. As gay people, we should know far better than anyone that sexuality is pre-programmed. Most, if not all gay couples/lesbian couples would tell you they would prefer their child to be straight for obvious reasons, but if they happened to be LGBT, what better parents could they have? Have you ever considered the thought that Hetero's "condition" their children to be Hetero? I grew up in a Hetero home, and was conditioned to be that way, and it made it very difficult to become who I was and who I am today. So what would the problem be with raising a child in a totally free open atmosphere that would accept any sexuality and talk about both freely? The queer population have done fine raising kids for a very long time, so why make a fuss about it now that it's in the news?
As far as marriage goes, whatever. Hetero's have a 50% divorce rate, and they are telling us we threaten their marriages LOL ....good one.
Abnormal was ruled out in the 70's btw. We can't be locked up and sent to the nuthouse, because they finally found out there was nothing wrong with us....LOL
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat_Boy
As far as marriage goes, whatever. Hetero's have a 50% divorce rate, and they are telling us we threaten their marriages LOL ....good one.
Very good point! I think ultra-conservatives use this as a ploy because they are just afraid of our country becoming more tolerant...and threatening their highly intolerant, "Christian" message...
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat_Boy
My curiosity is why hetero's beleive we will "condition" them to be gay. As gay people, we should know far better than anyone that sexuality is pre-programmed. Most, if not all gay couples/lesbian couples would tell you they would prefer their child to be straight for obvious reasons, but if they happened to be LGBT, what better parents could they have? Have you ever considered the thought that Hetero's "condition" their children to be Hetero? I grew up in a Hetero home, and was conditioned to be that way, and it made it very difficult to become who I was and who I am today. So what would the problem be with raising a child in a totally free open atmosphere that would accept any sexuality and talk about both freely? The queer population have done fine raising kids for a very long time, so why make a fuss about it now that it's in the news?
As far as marriage goes, whatever. Hetero's have a 50% divorce rate, and they are telling us we threaten their marriages LOL ....good one.
Abnormal was ruled out in the 70's btw. We can't be locked up and sent to the nuthouse, because they finally found out there was nothing wrong with us....LOL
I guess people just don't think it through!
post #20 of 28
this raises my curiosity. How will gay people have babies? if they dont want to "hump" the other sex?
post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwan
this raises my curiosity. How will gay people have babies? if they dont want to "hump" the other sex?
Artificial insemination, in vitro fertilization, surrogate mothers, or adoption, I suppose, since cloning isn't an option yet.
post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
Artificial insemination, in vitro fertilization, surrogate mothers, or adoption, I suppose, since cloning isn't an option yet.

One of my colleagues is lesbian. She and her partner are planning/hoping to have at least one child, by artificial insemination. "A" has her appointment booked at the fertility clinic to get the process started. We were just talking about this this morning, as a matter of fact, and about attitudes toward gay/lesbian parenting. As "A" pointed out, there are no "accidents": a gay or lesbian couple doesn't get "surprised", doesn't get pregnant because of pressure from peers or parents, etc. There are no unwanted children.

This child will be very much wanted, very much loved. And if this couple doesn't produce a happy, well-adjusted, socially conscious adult, I'll eat my hat.
post #23 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by sashacat421
I can't honestly say I've heard of same sex parents "training" their kids to be gay. Come ON, people!
Just a funny note...when my parents used to argue (not angry arguing, just frustrating arguing), and my dad would do something "male", my mom would laugh and tell me and my sister that if we were gay, she'd be just fine with that. LOL.
post #24 of 28
I just feel like it doesn't involve me it's there choice, as long as there Happy
post #25 of 28
thank you halfpint!!
post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel47
As "A" pointed out, there are no "accidents": a gay or lesbian couple doesn't get "surprised", doesn't get pregnant because of pressure from peers or parents, etc. There are no unwanted children.
This child will be very much wanted, very much loved. And if this couple doesn't produce a happy, well-adjusted, socially conscious adult, I'll eat my hat.
What a wonderful point, Fran!!!
post #27 of 28
Good!!! Why should the government tell you who you can marry?? You can't help who you love. I have many friends who are gay. They are some of the best friends I have ever had. They don't judge on every little thing. They are great people who should have the same rights as the rest of us.
Same sex couples are just as capible of raising children as heterosexual couples. Studies have shown that children of same sex couples tend to be more open minded and accepting of others. They do just as well in school, if not better.
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat_Boy
thank you halfpint!!
Your very welcome, I don't feel the need to be opionated about anyone elses choices, life's to short to judge others.
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