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Painful decision tomorrow: Need advice please.

post #1 of 64
Thread Starter 
Hi guys,
I dropped my cat, Snickers, off to the Vet Monday morning. I could tell he was having trouble peeing, and he was not his 'usual self'. Just laying around and well when he'd try to pee just a little dribble came out. The ER Vet Sunday afternoon told me Snickers did NOT have a blockage in his wee-wee, because they expressed some urine; they sent me home saying just call your Vet in the morn.

So I dropped Snicky off. They put a catheter in him because by this time, he was blocked off with these icky crystals. He couldn't pee at all and his bladder was distended. He was also dehydrated; I tried to get Snicky to drink but he just would scoot around away from the water bowl.

Snickers is 14 yrs old, he came to live with me last October after my ex-husband decided he didn't want Snickers any more. I REALLY LOVE this cat, I hated parting with him 10 yrs ago when we divorced, but well I had no choice. Anyway that's Snicky's history...

Tues morn they called and said, we are removing the cath, he had a lot of crystals; we will see if he can pee on his own & eat something. Well the day went by and last night I visited Snicky at the Vet. He was ALREADY blocked up by the time I reached him. They said, you can have us cath him again and put the IV back in ... but I wouldn't do it a 3rd time.

They said Snicky is old, frail, and in pain. This is SO SUDDENLY! I mean out of the blue. And I do not / did not consider my loving lapcat, who plays more than my 3 yr old boycat, OLD or FRAIL. Snicky's a nut! Fun & spritely.

Well last night when she told me one more time and then we have to talk. Talk about putting him to sleep.

She said that there is no reason on earth he should have crystals forming as badly as they are and blocking him up. She xrayed him and found nothing; no tumors or polyps. After so many pokes, prods and exams, Snickers is still iffy and they just don't know what's causing it.

I'm going to see Snicky tonight; they are once again removing his cath at 5pm. Vet called me this morn and said, he's cleared out again and the urine is flowing clear. She said he even ate & was purring and acting lively. Okay, so, I told her to please keep the cath in as long as possible. She said it'll be removed tonight.

Then she says: if he blocks overnight / during the day Thursday, we really should not cath him again. I understand putting them under this much and putting that cath in is painful, and I DO NOT want to do this to my Snicky any more. He is in pain, dang it, when they do these things, and he has trouble coming out of the anesthetic.

So Thursday night, if Snickers is peeing clear & nothing is blocked up: I get to bring him home to recover with oral meds & keep a watchful eye on my boy. If he is blocked again: I have to put him to sleep, bring him home and bury him in my backyard.

She said I could send him off to some place in Cincinnati and have a barrage of tests done... dyes shot up into him... more needles, more putting under. I don't get it. No one can tell what's causing the crystals, and the Vet firmly tells me that "14 yrs old is old in a cat".

I'm really distraught because Snickers just came back into my life 6 months ago and I am so not ready to lose him again, especially, like this. I know 14 yrs old in a cat equals 85 years old in a man. Still I just wish there was some miracle that could happen and I could have a few more years with him. Heck even just a few more months.

I do think it is inhuman and cruel to put a pet through the barrage of tests she described. I wouldn't wanna go thru it, if I was 85 yrs old. Mom says it's hard but I have to do what's best for Snickers (put him out of his pain if it's irreversible).

I'd like info from anyone who has made "the decision". Just how you felt and what led to it??? I want to be prepared.

--- Stephanie
post #2 of 64
Stephanie, I hope the worst is behind Snickers and he has more healthy time ahead of him. Sending lots of healthy vibes to him...

I'll move this to Health & Nutrition. I think it's more appropriate there.
post #3 of 64
Aw sweetie I know how hard it is to make this decision. I had to make it for a dog, because my mother was too devastated to think straight. What you have to take into consideration is his age, and what quality of life he has had and is likely to have after this. If he can pull through, would he really be happy? Would it mean meds for the rest of his life? Would he constantly be uncomfortable? I'm not one to put you on the spot here, but I know you love this cat with all your heart. Sometimes you have to love someone enough to let go. Just think about how much pain he is in, whether or not he can make it and be comfortable again.... there are a lot of odds to weigh up and ultimately the decision is yours. Whatever you decide, we all know you love Snicky to bits. That is what really counts. I'm here if you'd like to talk to anyone beb
post #4 of 64
Through a sad bit of mis-information (you can read the whole story HERE if you like) we didn't put Tyger down when his time was coming, but we did get him some very strong pain killers, so he was all but gone when the time came.

In retrospect, I wish I'd been strong enough to put him down earlier, to spare him the months of arthritis I'm sure he had, the loss of his sense of smell, and the pain of those last few hours.

It's hard, I know, but your cat is in immense pain right now. 14 is old for a cat, their systems just don't last that long.

Be grateful that he's with you right now, and not living with someone else who doesn't love him so much, and do the right thing if the vet can't help him.
post #5 of 64
Ive had to put down a few of my cats.
The most hurtful would have been the first.
he was only a kitten. he got his paw stuck somewhere or in a trap and it got ripped open. they ended up amputating his arm. lived for another 2 weeks but got out and his stiches came open, his fur was all dull and he was truly sick from the antibiotics. so we had to put him down.
If you are strong you can stay there with your kitty when they put that needle in.
it took a few attempts to find the vein on that poor kitten. then it happened again to one of our bigger cats a year later and we had to put him down, a month after that we had to get our dog put down. It was heart breaking But when you know that your kitty is happier and with out pain it makes you feel a tiny bit better. But still you will dread for days... and weeks. Unles syou are a strong person.
Everyone is different.
I still miss my cat who died 7 years ago but i learned that i have to move on
post #6 of 64
Oh Stephanie......my heart goes out to you. I had to put my 17year old dogs down in 2000,and it was the hardest things I"ve ever had to do, but I know it was for the best.......let's just pray that things work out ok. Just remember if you need strenght and love, we're here for you!!
post #7 of 64
Stephanie....I'm so sorry about your baby. I had a dog with this condition several years ago and the vet had me put him on prescription dog food so that it could help normalize the pH of his urine, thus reducing the crystals. Urine is supposed to be very acidic, but with many commercially prepared cat foods, the magnesium phosphates and calcium can get out of whack causing the urine to become more alkaline......which causes crystals to form. Dry cat foods can often cause this problem in cats who are susceptible to forming crystals.

Back when my dog had this problem, the vet recommended that I put him to sleep. He was just a little over a year old at the time and the vet said, "You haven't had him all that long....you can't possibly be too attached." I just looked at her and said, "Why would you think I wouldn't be attached to him after a year?" I then took him out of there and took him to a different vet who was a lot more compassionate and recommended the change in diet to see if that would work.

It was tough at first because he didn't really like the new food much and I couldn't get him to drink large quantities of water. But I stuck to it and kept encouraging him.....and you know what? He began to get better! He gained his weight back....he started feeling better...and we never had another problem with the urine crystals. I just had to put him to sleep last year at the ripe old age of 15 due to other health problems.

Obviously, I don't know just how sick your kitty is because I'm not there. It's a decision that you're going to have to make with the best interest of him in mind. Has your vet suggested another type of food? Do they think he has enough time to try a change in diet until his urine can normalize?

Best of luck to you and your baby. I'll be thinking of you both and sending you healing vibes.
post #8 of 64
Thread Starter 
Robin... I told her how Snickers' diet had changed rather dramatically in the last 6 months.

At my ex's house Snickers was given dry food along with canned, and, table scraps (plenty of table scraps). This may have kept things flowing. But at my house, I only feed them Science Diet dry & keep PLENTY of water around. I wonder if the change in diet is what happened to Snickers, and I pretty much begged the Vet, just clear him up and flush his system and I will change his diet back to canned only!!! I have already started my other 5 cats on canned only.

Man I can't believe some Vets... the one who said that about your dog!!! Geezuss! I fell hard & fast in dire love for each of my cats at first freaking glance!!! For him to say that... argh...

I switched Vets 2 yrs ago when the doc told me not to bring Zorro back, after Zorro bit a hole in his hand. Zorro has a rather strong jaw & well, bites people for no reason. They muzzled him and when they removed the muzzle, Zorro took a chunk from the doc's hand. He said, "he's disturbed & got issues" and I said, nah he just doesn't like you. Then I switched Vets.

This current Vet cured Zorro of feline acne, recently cured Hammie's intestinal infection. She's a really sweet lady and has kept me VERY involved in Snicker's treatment. She said exactly what you said about your dog... the type of dry food causing the crystals. But can't they be washed out, and then we start over??? That's what's got me so confused. Why are they still forming if he's on a liquid diet now and off the dang dry food???

I can't wait to see him again tonight. Last night he looked just awful (was still blocked & in pain) but it felt so nice to hold him again. I miss him.
post #9 of 64
Darkeyedgirl - I'm sorry that Snickers is going through this. For what it's worth, here are my thoughts:

First, 14 is not old for a cat! Especially when that cat is as you say "fun and spritely!"and "plays more than your 3 year old cat"! Your reaction to being told Snicky was "old and frail" tells me a lot. You don't see him that way, and apparently, Snickers himself doesn't feel that way! As far as I'm concerned, Snickers could have several more good years of precious life left in him.

I would find a feline specialist, an internal medicine, board-certified veterinarian ASAP! If Snickers continues to block, he can have surgery done which, though it sounds extreme, is effective. The procedure would be to remove his penis. The reason for this is that the urethera becomes extremely narrow inside the penis, and this is where most blockages occur. I know this sounds terrible, but in cases where the cat continues to block, it's a life saver. I don't know why your vet hasn't mentioned this to you, unless she is unable to perform this type of surgery. I've read accounts from people who've done this with their cats - aside from using the litterbox "like a girl cat", the cats are fine! They can still control their urine, and they no longer experience blockages. You need to find a vet experienced with this procedure (and who has a more positive attitude perhaps).

Do some research about this condition - you will find other suggestions for keeping the crystals from forming again, such as using cranberry juice. Keep in mind it's important to know exactly which kind of crystals are the problem: struvite or oxalic. Diet is very important and you should definitely switch back to a high quality canned food. No more dry and no more Science Diet (it's not high quality, even though vets sell it).

It's obvious how much you love Snickers. You don't sound like you're ready to give up, so don't! Avoid having regret by doing everything you can now. Second and even third opinions are valuable when there's a life-threatening condition since vets have been known to be wrong on occasion.

I wish you and your wonderful boy all the best of luck!
post #10 of 64
I will just second everything that KTLynn wrote above. There is a surgical option; it is important to know what the chemical composition of the crystals are as different diets are needed for each one, and your vet, while she is good, seems to have a block about older cats. Yes, 14 is getting up there for a cat, but there are many cats who live well into their late teens. See if you can find a feline specialist around at a clinic somewhere who is more sympathetic to a senior cat. As well, do ask your vet about this surgery tonight when you go to see Snickers or to pick him up.

I do hope he is doing better and hope you find the right answers very soon.

post #11 of 64
Honey I'm so sorry It sounds like you're doing all you can and you'll make the best decision for Snickers when you need to. I don't know if this is any help at all, but one of my cats some years ago had a lot of problems with crystals and recurring bladder infections and the vet eventually flushed his bladder out very thoroughly under general anaesthetic. That showed up some tiny bone fragments that somehow had ended up in there and was causing the non stop infections. If the vet is catheterising then they may already be doing this and I understand you're anxious to avoid sedating him any further. Thinking of you, and hoping Snickers is doing better in the morning.
post #12 of 64
I already voiced my opinion in your last thread, that you need another vet to look at Snicks- just to evaluate not to put him through a regime of tests (yet) I am sorry but your vet sounds like she leaves a lot to be desired.
post #13 of 64
Thread Starter 
He's been flushed out twice now... I mean REALLY flushed out, especially today. The cath has been in for 24 hours now!

I will ask her tonight about removing his penis. As horrible as that sounds, hey it's been done to men and they survived, so why not a cat. I hate to have him put under again because he had such trouble coming out of it, but I want to exhaust all options.

I really don't want to switch vets... I think both docs there are very kind and knowledgeable. (the new doc starts caring for Snickers tonight, it's 2 women, one works 3 days the other works 3 days)

I'll post in the AM once we see how things go tonight, after his cath is removed. Please pray that he doesn't block up and he free-flows.

I'm going to see him now.

Thanks All
post #14 of 64
I am so sorry, I can feel how difficult this is, and just went through making this decision last week. In Joshua's case, he really was in no shape for a major surgery to remove the tumor in his lung, the probability was high that my almost 17 y.o. had cancer, and it had already begun affecting him (wt., breathing).

Fwiw, I had a 1 year old who blocked twice, and I did have surgery done so he'd have a wider urethral opening. He lived many, many years after, it was well worth doing.

I would, if this were my cat, take a look at his overall health, what shape he's currently in, what his spirit is telling me, I'd probably get a second opinion, because in my experience, 14 is not old...you can hope for another 3-5 years with him, decent years. I don't honestly understand why they haven't brought up the surgical option to you, I am not convinced there is not more to be done as the previous two posters expressed.

In the end, you will make the best decision for your cat with the information you have, and we will support you with whatever decision you make. We are here for you.
post #15 of 64
I have no advice of any value...just my prayers.

We will be thinking of you...
post #16 of 64
hey any update on snickers??? im so sorry you have to go through all of this but hopefully something can be done.
post #17 of 64
You and Snickers are in my thoughts!
post #18 of 64
Originally Posted by darkeyedgirl
I really don't want to switch vets... I think both docs there are very kind and knowledgeable. (the new doc starts caring for Snickers tonight, it's 2 women, one works 3 days the other works 3 days)
Hi darkeyedgirl! I'm sorry to hear Snickers' isn't in tip-top shape. I know you said you don't want to switch vets, but a second opinion is always better than asking yourself "what if?" I used to live in Cincinnati, and I took my kids to the College Hill Pet Clinic and saw Dr. Terri E. McCarty. She was a very kind and loving lady who cared as much for my kids as I do, and would always snuggle with them before doing anything to them, and afterwards too. If it's not too much of a haul (I'm thinking it would be a half an hour, max, as long as you don't catch rush hour on 71/75) you might want to look them up.
post #19 of 64
Sorry to hear what you're going thru, been there and done that and it certainly isn't easy. First of all I don't feel that 14 is that old, all of our cats have lived up to 20+ years. If you have the means I would highly recommend that you have your vet refer you to an internal specialist. One of my cats, Rhea was so sick last year, it started as ear infection and with the meds she was given , within 3 days she was at deaths door. High fever, not eating/drinking, red blotches all over her body. She spent 3 days at the emergency clinic on IV and tons of drugs. They had no idea what was wrong. Although she was a little better and could bring her home she was still gravely ill. Our vet referred her to an internal specialist where she was diagonosed with phemfigus. Horrible disease that is. After several months of trying different drugs we finally found one that keeps the disease in remission. She's happy healthy and looking great. We know that if we're lucky she'll perhaps live a few more years, she's only 5 now, but we suspect a few more years is asking alot, we know that eventually her current meds will stop working as all the others have. This is the last med they have to give her.
Secondly, as far as putting a cat to sleep, our 21yr we had put to sleep 2 years ago. She was losing weight, had trouble walking, her fur dull, the vet said she wasn't ill just old. We had decided to put her to sleep peacefully rather than come home one day and find her dead. At least this way we would ensure she went peacefully and with us there holding her paw. She now rests under the plum tree in the backyard that she often snoozed under during the hot lazy days of summer.
Darkeyedgirl, we can all give you advice, but in the end you'll have to follow your heart.
post #20 of 64
Thread Starter 
Okay, here is where I am at this morning.

I saw my Snicky last night and spent a good hour at the Vet. They had to kick my butt out in order for THEM to go home. Snicky was covered in dandruff, I guess cats get that way when they're understress??? But other than that and his lil arm being shaved, lordie did he look good. Bright eyes, purring so loud you could hear it in the next room. Well I spent that hour holding my lil man. They had just taken his cath out so well, there was no way in knowing if he was blocked up just yet or not.

Anyway. This morning I waited for my usual morning call, and it didn't come, So I called THEM. They put me on hold. Then, she said, the Vet has to examine him, we just got started this morn, let us look at his Xrays (they took more Xrays yesterday) and check his bladder again. I said, WELL DID HE PEE LAST NIGHT???? HOW IS HE??? And the gal on the phone (different gal... changing of the guards so to speak today) said, well I went in there and it smelled like pee but I didn't check his box.

I thought, dammmmityou, this is important to me! The other Vet & other nurse (or whatever you call the girl who helps the main doctor) was better. So I'm sitting here on pins & needles.

Snicky looked so great last night except for all that dandruff on his lovely black fur... he kept getting up to walk, then he'd headbutt me & snuggle back into my arms.

OH and I DID ask the Vet last night about removing his penis or widening his urethral opening!!! Get this!!! She said, "we do not do that anymore, it was proven it was unnecessary and there are other options". I said, what options? To let them die? TO keep charging me $400 a day so you can tell me oops he might have to be put down because he's old???

I was sorta p.o.'ed because it seems like a stand-still. When my other cats were sick and treated, they bounced back and were healed ... well they way I see it, if the vet does her job, she can help Snicky bounce back and heal.

When they call me today with whatever news, this is it, I'm taking him out of there and taking him to another Vet. Perhaps another vet will believe in doing that surgery. I have to try something. If not, I know me, I will regret it to the end, and I don't care how thin my credit card gets.

I will update once I hear from this Vet... here I'll see if these pics upload that were taken last night of me and Snick. See what a beauty he is? He likes to give 'hugs'.

- Stephanie[IMG][/IMG]

post #21 of 64
I am so sorry Snicky and you are going through this tough time. I am sure you will do what is best for him, no matter how difficult it is. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
post #22 of 64
Love those pictures!!! What a very handsome boy Snicky is!!! The dandruff you see is from stress - it happens to my kids every time they have a vet visit.

I am SO GLAD you're going to another vet! You've been getting the runaround. I'm with you - if there were "other options", why the heck weren't you told about them days ago??? The vet was already talking about putting Snicky to sleep!!! What is she thinking? And as far as not doing "that surgery anymore", removal of the penis was discussed with me as an option for one of my feral boys just last year. I had taken him to one of the best veterinary hospitals in the region (it's known as the "Little AMC", a reference to the Animal Medical Center in NYC, one of the finest vet hospitals in the US). Frankly, I'd trust the judgment of the feline internal medicine vet who told me this rather than that of a vet who was already discussing putting your cat to sleep before informing you of "other options". This surgery has worked for one of Pat & Alix's cats, as she told you about in her post. Sorry for the rant, but this is outrageous!

Mikenealis recommended a vet hospital in Cincinnati a couple of posts back. Any chance that could work for you? I'm hoping you can find a really competent specialist so that you can get Snicky the help he needs ASAP.

Please post as soon as you can and let us know how Snicky's doing. All the best to you and your gorgeous boy.
post #23 of 64
Originally Posted by KTLynn
Mikenealis recommended a vet hospital in Cincinnati a couple of posts back. Any chance that could work for you? I'm hoping you can find a really competent specialist so that you can get Snicky the help he needs ASAP.
It's not a hospital with specialists, just general practitioners, but they're great. They all love my kids to death, and some of the vet techs sneak Bast toys when no one's looking. If I remember right, though, Dr. McCarty is off on Thursdays. The other doctor I've seen there is Dr. Joseph A. Smith. He's a nice man, and he's HUGE! I'm 6'4, and he had a few inches on me. Looks like he might have played footbal when he was younger. Intimidating at first (because he's big), but a nice guy. He looked at a "stray" I had brought in before introducing it to Jameson, and I'm glad he did, because it was Lukemia positive. We decided to put it down because I didn't want it straying anymore and maybe getting other people's cats sick, and he wasn't going to get better. There's more to the story, but don't wanna thread-hijack. PM if you want to know.
post #24 of 64
I guess your vet raised my red flag in your first post. Just don't make a scene when you leave, just leave and don't look back. Snicks deserves better than he is getting.
post #25 of 64
I'm glad too that you are taking Snickers elsewhere for another opinion. I will keep my feelings which are to myself re some of what you've been told.

Snickers is gorgeous!
post #26 of 64
He's a beautiful cat who deserves every chance. I do hope you manage to find a sympathetic vet and get him everything he needs.
post #27 of 64
Thread Starter 
The new doctor (change of guards), her name is Bridget Wilson. The 'old' Doctor, Dr. Hungler, went off the guard last night. I know Dr Wilson, she worked on Zorro for his acne & Hammie for his bloody bum. I TRUST Dr. Wilson. Dr. HUngler on the other hand, she's gone til Monday, so Dr. WIlson it is.

I FINALLY heard from her. Talk about a long morning for me. She said she was sorry that Dr. Hungler didn't keep the cath in longer; Dr. Wilson is re-cathing Snickers 'right now' and will keep it in until Saturday PM.

She said that his bladder is 'severely distended' still, and he really has not peed; she thinks he's swollen. I am supposed to get a phone call any moment regarding SNicky's Xrays. They did an "air" test on him yesterday, where they shot air into his bladder. They also did some other tests which will tell them/us if Snick has bladder stones, which could be causing the crystals.

Snicky is also going back on the IV; she said Dr. Hungler should not have removed it; the IV & the cath should have stayed in much longer the FIRST TIME!! I didn't even have to b!tch about it or say anything --- she just spilled out all the stuff I was going to yell about.

I called 2 other area vets for second opinions via tele; they said, he needs to be re-cathed and the cath needs to stay in. They said that is what they would do first off.

Dr. Wilson did not even breathe a word about Snickers being "old" and she certainly did NOT say anything about how I "should consider putting him down". I know they are 2 very different doctors (like I said Dr. Wilson is the only one I've seen... not this Hungler chic) and she has said everything i thought from Day One. I'm rather ticked because of the stress Snicky has been through, I hate to think he went through the suturing of the cath three dang times when it should have only been one!!! My poor guy in pain because Dr. Hungler doesn't know what she's doing????

But Dr. WIlson does... she gave me a play by play. She is going to call me within the hour with the Xray & bladder air-thingy test results. She said if he has bladder stones -- they will simply perform surgery and remove them.

So I guess at this point I still don't know much except I won't get to pick him up until Saturday PM. They're closed on Sunday so the cath has to come out Saturday. I'm aggravated because we've wasted time.

Re: the past few days being wasted (IMHO), should I refuse to pay certain fees? Once I get the final bill? CAN I refuse to pay for Dr. Hungler's damage? She didn't help him, she hindered the whole dang thing!

What would you do? I know I said I'd take him from there tonight, but like I said, Dr. Wilson is a whole nuther doctor; she is in the same building but she said all the right things (the same things the other 2 vets said, when I called with urgency). Also she did not have the same attitude Hungler did, re: just "let him go cuz he's old".

Flaming, I am!!!

Oh and i will be stopping by of course tonight, tomorrow night, & Saturday to see my Snicky. Maybe I should write a little note to Hungler. Or just wait til this is all over with.
post #28 of 64
Originally Posted by darkeyedgirl
Good news, and questions.
Good to hear that things have taken a turn for the better for Snickers!

Re: The bill. I'd have a sit down with Dr. Wilson and have a frank discussion about everything that was done before she came on. Find out what she thinks was necessary and unnecessary, and get her opinion on the whole thing. Talk to whoever is in charge of the billing department at your vets office too. If they require full payment before they release your animal, ask them to split the bill into two different parts, Dr. Wilson's and Dr. Hungler's. Pay Dr. Wilson's, and let the person who is in charge of billing know how you feel about Dr. Hungler's treatment of Snickers. I don't know if you'll get anything taken off, but it can't hurt - especially if they know you were thinking about going to a different clinic for treatment.

I'm glad to hear that you're at ease with Snickers' care now. Hope everything turns out for the best.
post #29 of 64
Even though you feel you might of reached the end of the line, it isn't the end of the line to successfully correct this. Dry cat food will do it every time. Some say it's because the cat doesn't drink enough. Some say it's because of the magnesium, etc content in the food. For whatever reason, those cases where the caregiver stopped giving dry cat food, the problem also stopped. Even when the diet- was a dry cat food prescribed by the vet. It didn't seem to make any difference. The cat would eventually block. There is a way around this. I've seen it. I've proved it for myself. Once your cat gets over this, if you want to see the end to the problem. Canned cat food only. Low ash, low magnesium. A good quality cat food- preferably with no by -products. Then once a day- a capsule of cranberry extract( some are cranberry juice extracts, some say one capsule is the equivalent of x-quantity of fresh cranberries,etc). This has proven to be very effective but you have to be consistent. Cranberry juice dissolves the crystals and sloughs off the bacteria off the bladder walls that manufacture the crystals. If you do this, you should have no more problems. People have had pets with a history of blockages and have had no further problem after following this.
post #30 of 64
I wouldn't do anything right now, you are not in the right state of mind and it could backfire. Regardless of another vet being in the clinic, the same vet who was so sloppy still has access to Snick, so you need to bear that in mind.

I would sit down at a later date with a clearer head and just make a list of all the problems you saw in the one vet's care. Then I would present this list to the other vet and ask her to read it and advise you.
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