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what would happen..

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
please forgive this question if it sounds stupid.

my boyfriend asked me what would happen if a neighbours toms broke into a cattery and impregnanted all the pedigree females.

is there such thing as cat abortion without spaying? if not what would happen to the kittens?

has this happened to anyone before?
post #2 of 23
No, there's no such thing as abortion without spaying, at least not in Sweden. However you can give birth control pills directly after the female have been mated, one pill three days in a row. This would prevent the female from even bering impregnated.

I don't know if you have borth control pills for cats where you live, but we do in Sweden so botrh control pills would be an alternative to spaying the females. It's not 100 % safe, but it would surely prevent some of the impregnations making you have to spay fewer females OR making you have to raise fewer moggies.
post #3 of 23
As Sol has already commented, there really isn't such a thing as an abortion without spaying that I know of, but I can tell you one thing that would happen for SURE if that happened within MY cattery - that male would go immediately to the vet to get cut, no passing go, no collecting $200! I don't care that it was a neighbor's cat, he would lose his ability to father kittens for evermore. Period.

~gf~
post #4 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef
I don't care that it was a neighbor's cat, he would lose his ability to father kittens for evermore. Period.

~gf~
the incident which prompted this question was thus: we nearly got a dog from a boxer breeder who's neighbours collie and labrador both jumped the fence and bred with his female hours before the stud arrived.

as much as he loved the pups he couldnt help but lament the amount of money those sneaky dogs cost him. not to mention setting back his breeding program a year.
post #5 of 23
Ugh! Well, the way ~I~ see it, I don't care if the "offending" party was a dog, a cat, a rabbit or a purple polka-dotted giraffe, he would lose his danglies. Don't know about where you live, but where I live, there are leash laws for dogs and if dogs are running around loose, I would be well within my right to contact Animal Control.
post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick_kitten
the incident which prompted this question was thus: we nearly got a dog from a boxer breeder who's neighbours collie and labrador both jumped the fence and bred with his female hours before the stud arrived.

as much as he loved the pups he couldnt help but lament the amount of money those sneaky dogs cost him. not to mention setting back his breeding program a year.
That sorta happened to me. I have a bull mastiff that is not neutered and has NEVER gotten out of the yard in the 7 years that we have had him. Somehow "by chance" (yeah right), the neighbors rottweiler got into our yard, impregnated by him and then was put back into her pen. The neighbors sold all the puppies!!!! didn't even give us the oppertunity for one even though they used our dog without our permission for a stud.
post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef
Ugh! Well, the way ~I~ see it, I don't care if the "offending" party was a dog, a cat, a rabbit or a purple polka-dotted giraffe, he would lose his danglies. Don't know about where you live, but where I live, there are leash laws for dogs and if dogs are running around loose, I would be well within my right to contact Animal Control.
I agree. If it wasn't your dog who got over there you have the right to "take care of business" if they end up in your yard. I believe that you can even sue the dogs owners for this. It cost the bitch's (excuse the term but that is the correct term) owner money because of the neglect on the other dogs owner in keeping them in the yard, especially if they are not neutered!
post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengalbabe
That sorta happened to me. I have a bull mastiff that is not neutered and has NEVER gotten out of the yard in the 7 years that we have had him. Somehow "by chance" (yeah right), the neighbors rottweiler got into our yard, impregnated by him and then was put back into her pen. The neighbors sold all the puppies!!!! didn't even give us the oppertunity for one even though they used our dog without our permission for a stud.
thats so sad. how did they explain themselves to you?
post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick_kitten
thats so sad. how did they explain themselves to you?
They really didn't they were pretty flip about it they simply said "our dog got into your yard and she had puppys by your dog." and my husband said "well where are they can I see them I would possibly like to have one" and they said "no we sold them all" that was the end of the conversation and we moved shortly after that.
post #10 of 23
Since our breeding cats live inside our house that wouldn't happen to us. My Nana in her 45+ years of breeding has had few cats bred by a Domestic cat, with them escaping.
post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
i read a really horrible story ( i dont think it was here) where a five week old kitten was handed over to an animal shelter because it's mother had bred with the owners Burmese (she was of a different breed, cant remember which) and the mother had come back into heat and was wanted for breeding pedigree kittens.
post #12 of 23
Kittens can be aborted without spaying or surgery. They are given a shot of oxitocin or pitocin (Not sure if they are different or the same medication)that will cause the queen to go into labor.
post #13 of 23
I remember, maybe 40 years ago, I was called for jury duty, and the most memorable case was a wiemariner (sp?) dog, female, that was impregnated by a black lab, and the owners of the female sued the owners of the lab for the loss of registration for their female for, I believe, two breedings, plus damage to their flower beds that the lab demolished in his show of love to the prospective bride, plus the large picture window that the lab crashed through to get to the female, plus damage to the house, and from the pictures shown to us on the jury, it looked like a bunch of drunken, drugged hippies with chain saws went on a rampage in the house.

I incurred the everlasting enmity of a lady on the jury when I commented that I would like to shake the lab's paw, for he seemed to be much of a man.

Leonard.
post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 
who won the case?
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef
As Sol has already commented, there really isn't such a thing as an abortion without spaying that I know of, but I can tell you one thing that would happen for SURE if that happened within MY cattery - that male would go immediately to the vet to get cut, no passing go, no collecting $200! I don't care that it was a neighbor's cat, he would lose his ability to father kittens for evermore. Period.

~gf~
hmm.. but the tom can't control himself, if he got out and it wasn't his fault (open door, faulty cage, etc) why would he get neutered? seems excessive to me
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarePuss
hmm.. but the tom can't control himself, if he got out and it wasn't his fault (open door, faulty cage, etc) why would he get neutered? seems excessive to me
I think the original question was "what would happen if a neighbours toms broke into a cattery and impregnanted all the pedigreed females" ... since, as you have accurately pointed out, the Tom cannot control himself and since it also seems that the owners cannot control him, but also are not adequately seeing to his appropriate care either, then I would have to step in to protect my cats, their health and the integrity of my breeding program. Not only would he be immediately taken to my vet to be neutered, I would also present the bill to the neighbors for repayment of my expenses to have it done!

Excessive as though it may seem to you, the chances of my cats becoming sick, injured or worse is a strong enough motivator for me to take matters into my own hands.

~gf~
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
i agree with gayef.

just because the kittens sired wouldnt be born to the owner of the un-altered cat doesnt mean they wouldnt be responsible for them.

owning an un-neutered tom is imo more irresponsible than owning an unspayed female as you have no way of knowing how many kittens he has made nor how they are being looked after or indeed if the exsist. an un-neutered male can make more kittens per season than a female potentially. (not to say i agree with owning un-spayed females)

i think that by neutering the tom gayef would have been doing him a favor. he would be a lot calmer and happier plus far less at risk or injury and illness than before.

the owner of the pedigree females also has the right to protect her cats and her breeding program and ensure that it wouldnt happen again.
post #18 of 23
OK..add a new dumb question to the dumb question list....is the female no longer available for breeding purebreds now?? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the line is now broken and her kittens wouldn't be considered quality even tho her next breeding is with a purebreed stud??
post #19 of 23
Yes, the queen is still able to participate in a breeding program - I don't know where you heard that but it doesn't make much sense if you look at it logically - as long as any future litter is sired by a pedigreed male, the resulting kittens are able to be registered.
post #20 of 23
Wow! That's a good question and it's really sad that that does happen.

I agree with Gaye, I'd get the animal fixed and hand the bill to the owners. You really can't be mad at the animal but you sure can let the owner hear a few choice words!
post #21 of 23
about 6 years ago my friend had a new neigbour that had 3 very large toms , (my friend had 6 desexed cats) the toms started to spray all over her place patio chairs table bbq plants it just plain stunk, some of her cats got scared and wouldnt leave the house so for about 2 months this went on. she saw her neighbour and was told to mind her on buisennes. so thats what she did, befriended all 3 toms and quietly took them of the vets, had them all desexed neighbour non the wiser and after another couple of weeks a better smelling backyard.

Right or wrong, I think right. she didnt ask for any money as she felt it wasnt the fault of the cats that they had a owner that didnt really care.
post #22 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets
OK..add a new dumb question to the dumb question list....is the female no longer available for breeding purebreds now?? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the line is now broken and her kittens wouldn't be considered quality even tho her next breeding is with a purebreed stud??
i *think* thats true for some dog breeders to discourage the breeding of cross-breeds
post #23 of 23
[quote=maverick_kitten] owning an un-neutered tom is imo more irresponsible than owning an unspayed female as you have no way of knowing how many kittens he has made nor how they are being looked after or indeed if the exsist. an un-neutered male can make more kittens per season than a female potentially. (not to say i agree with owning un-spayed females)

[quote]

Hmmm...I'm not sure I agree with that. The only reason is that one tom can impregnate pretty much an infinite number of females, but there is a definite number of litters that each female can have per year given the opportunity. If one tom is neutered, likely there's another coming along right behind him to impregnate every female on the block. But having even one female spayed means less breeding overall.

More specifically, if you have a neighborhood with 5 intact toms and 5 intact females, you can realistically expect to have 10 litters of kittens born per year (2 per female). If you neuter one or even 4 of the toms, you can still expect 10 litters to be born - it just means that either each tom will be siring more kittens and possibly that the litters will be somewhat smaller (given induced ovulation). But in the same community, if you spay one female and leave all 5 toms intact, you have reduced the number of litters born per year from 10 to 8. So there has been an impact on breeding.

Obviously I'm not even remotely saying it's okay to leave a tom intact. Neutering male cats has many benefits, both for the cats and for the community, but it's spays that actually have the measurable impact on population.
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