kitten vaccinations

Hi,
I wanted to find out what kind of credentials a breeder needs to vaccinate their own kittens. Is it common practice for breeders to vaccinate at 2 weeks and 6 weeks of age. Last question, what harm would vaccinating a kitten with an expired medication do???
Thank-you,
Maria

Kittens should not be vaccinated at 2 weeks of age, the mother should be fully vaccinated before getting pregnant then the kittens will recieve some of the mother immuntiy through the milk. The very earliest I would vaccinate a kitten is 6 weeks old and that is only if the mother is not fully vaccinated or if there has been a breakout of one of the virus's that you would vaccinate for. I have heard of breeders of dogs vaccinate early for parvo or distemper if there has been an outbreak in their immediate area.

I would not use an expired medication.

Originally Posted by marlearn

Hi,
I wanted to find out what kind of credentials a breeder needs to vaccinate their own kittens. Is it common practice for breeders to vaccinate at 2 weeks and 6 weeks of age. Last question, what harm would vaccinating a kitten with an expired medication do???
Thank-you,
Maria

Click to expand...

Breeders do not require any "credentials" in order to give their own vaccines. However, a thorough knowledge of each vaccine, what each is administered against, how they work, how to administer them, where to administer them and possible adverse reaction most certainly ~is~ required. As a breeder, the ONLY vaccine I feel comfortable giving is the FRCVP (described below) - rabies must be administered by a vet in my area and I absolutely do not vaccinate against FIP or Feluk.

Kittens are normally vaccined for Feline Rhinotraceitis, Calici Virus and Panleukopenia at approximately 6 weeks, 9 weeks and 12 weeks old. Some breeders also vaccine at the same time for Clamydia. As Petnurse has already commented, kittens will receive some immunity in the form of colestrum when they first start nursing from their mother as long as she was vaccinated prior to becoming pregnant. Additionally, her milk will also provide some immunity.

Expired medications and vaccines should NEVER be used. The results can be deadly.

Hope this helps,

~gf~

Hi
Thank-you for this information.

Do you think that a kitten vaccinated with an expired serum have a higher chance of developing FIP?

An expired serum of what?

The breeder I bough my kittens from adninistered the Feline Rhinotrachelitis Calici Panleukeopenia to him on 7/10/04 and the expiration date on the label was 1/15/04, I have a photo copy of it on his vaccine booklet from the breeder. He and his sister came to me sick and went on to develope FIP and pass on, the female at 6 months old and the male at 9 months old. I am just doing research.This whole thing has been devestating, and I want to learn as much as I can.

Here in NZ we take the kittens to the vet for their first vaccination at 10 weeks old and then they receive their next and last vaccination at 12 weeks old.

Originally Posted by marlearn

The breeder I bough my kittens from adninistered the Feline Rhinotrachelitis Calici Panleukeopenia to him on 7/10/04 and the expiration date on the label was 1/15/04, I have a photo copy of it on his vaccine booklet from the breeder. He and his sister came to me sick and went on to develope FIP and pass on, the female at 6 months old and the male at 9 months old. I am just doing research.This whole thing has been devestating, and I want to learn as much as I can.

Click to expand...

Oh dear ... I was afraid you were going to say this. First, let me say how horribly sorry I am to hear of your loss. I can well imagine that it has been devastating for you and for your family.

While I wouldn't stake my life on it, I seriously doubt that the expired vaccine actually caused the onset of FIP. I sincerely hope your breeder took responsibility and at least offered to make some sort of amends - at the very least, an offer of a partial refund or to pay the associated vet bills. I realize that this would, in ~no~ way, compensate you for your loss of these two babies, but it is pretty standard in most breeder sales agreements.

FIP is a very tricky beast ... and it seems to target the little babies and the immune-suppressed geezers - the most vulnerable. It is a very sad thing and again, I can't tell you how sorry I am to hear you lost your kitties to it. But I don't think the expired vaccine was the cause. It didn't help any, that is for certain, but I don't think it actually caused it.

Have you been able to think of opening your heart to new babies yet? You will know when the time is right.


~gf~

Hi,
Thank-you for your condolances. Unfortunately the breeder I purchased my kittens from completely denies having any sick cats in her home, nor has she taken any responsibility for this at all. She did retire their mother, father, and brother from her breeding program. She purchased a new male and has continued to breed and sell kittens wothout any reguard to what has happened to my babies. My heart has been ripped out, and I want her to stop denying and take responsibility, and I do not want to see other kittens suffer needlessly, nor other families experience the agony of loosing their sweet angels!!!! I am not ready at this time to open my heart to new babies, as it has only been 3 weeks and 2 days since I lost my sweet boy, and I have vacuumed my house,etc with a hepa filter vacuume, and sanitized my entire house, but want to wait a few months before thinking of new babies.
After this experience I am also afraid of getting new babies, so when the time does come, I will certainly be more educated about choosing a cattery.

I didn't realize it had been such a short time - my apologies if my question offended. It certainly doesn't seem the right time yet. Take this time and learn all you can about the breed you are interested in having - talk to others who have cats of your chosen breed, go to cat shows, and cruise the Net. There are many reputable, responsible breeders out here who do give a darn and who would love to place a kitten (or two!) with someone who sounds as loving and caring as you do. If I can be of any assistance to you at all, please don't hesitate to let me know - I am always around.

Unfortunately, unless you had a written, signed, Sales Agreement, there really isn't much, if anything at all, you can do to make this person accept responsibility. And even if you do have such an agreement, read it carefully - there still may not be a lot you can do. I agree, it isn't right and I also agree that she should take responsibility, but because of the way laws in most states are written, even if you were able to get her into court, you still may not be able to win your case.

My heart goes out to you - I just know this has to be simply horrible.

Healing hugs,

~gf~

No offenence taken. I do have a contract, but there is so muchgoing on here: I never received a state required health certificate from the breeder, the kittens were inbred, they were given vaccinations by the breeder that were expired, their mom, dad,and brother were retired from the breeding program right after I notified the breeder of my sweet babies diagonoses of FIP, the breeder has just changed her entire website as of 3/1/05 to include that she requires the kittens not leave for their new home until 12 weeks at which will have been seen by her vet. and have a health cert. The more I research the more I find out, so the list may go on. How fair is this practice to sweet innocent kittens and the families that love them dearly???????
I know I will not be able to put this to rest until something is done to prevent this breeder from doing this again.
Marlearn

My dear, I am not trying to be argumentative at all but more importantly, I am trying to allow you to see just how big a battle you are facing. Let's look at it piece by piece:

Originally Posted by marlearn

... but there is so muchgoing on here: I never received a state required health certificate from the breeder ...

Click to expand...

Unless they were shipped to you, I wasn't aware that any state actually ~required~ a health certificate. I know my own state doesn't but of course, things may be different where you are. Many breeders will provide them to their kitten buyers as a courtesy but they also normally do so only at the buyer's request and expense.

Originally Posted by marlearn

... the kittens were inbred ...

Click to expand...

It is difficult at best and impossible at worst to substantiate such a claim. Do you have their pedigrees?

Originally Posted by marlearn

... they were given vaccinations by the breeder that were expired ...

Click to expand...

She could argue that she wrote it down wrong.

Originally Posted by marlearn

... their mom, dad,and brother were retired from the breeding program right after I notified the breeder of my sweet babies diagonoses of FIP ...

Click to expand...

That, in and of itself, doesn't prove anything either. That may have been the plan all along and she was simply waiting for this litter to be placed before retiring them.

Originally Posted by marlearn

... the breeder has just changed her entire website as of 3/1/05 to include that she requires the kittens not leave for their new home until 12 weeks at which will have been seen by her vet. and have a health cert ...

Click to expand...

So, she has lived and learned from your misfortune. Hindsight really is, as they say, 20/20. This is a shame.

Originally Posted by marlearn

The more I research the more I find out, so the list may go on. How fair is this practice to sweet innocent kittens and the families that love them dearly???????
I know I will not be able to put this to rest until something is done to prevent this breeder from doing this again.

Click to expand...

As much as it truly pains me to say this, you should ask yourself the following question:

Is this really the hill I wanna die on?

Look at the facts and then answer that question honestly:

1. She sold you two kittens who came to you sick and who later died

2. She has given you some reason to think these kittens were too closely inbred

3. She vaccinated the kittens with an expired vaccine

4. She has broken promises she made to provide important papers

5. She has completely changed her website to reflect a better approach to breeding when in fact, none of those things happened with you.

What makes you think that after doing all of that she is going to step up and take responsibility for her actions? If she wasn't a responsible enough person to do the right thing in the beginning, why do you think she is going to change now? She obviously doesn't care that your heart is broken and she obviously doesn't care that her reputation may be damaged - the sad truth here is that you just really can't do much with a person who doesn't care.

I wish it weren't this way - I wish ALL breeders would do the right thing. It makes me extremely angry when they don't and people's hearts are shattered by the mess they made. And while this really isn't the point, it is a fact - this type of person just gives the rest of us breeders who ~do~ try to be responsible and ethical a bad name and it pi$$es me off. I wish with all of my heart, in my own pie-in-the-sky world, that everyone would be honest and trustworthy and have only good intentions at heart. But sadly, that just isn't how it is. And the best we can hope to do to change it within our own lives is to learn from it, break the cycle and not make the same mistakes in dealing with these types of people over and over again.

I hate this for you. I really do. But I just don't see how you are going to make a person who obviously couldn't care less do the right thing. If you do find a way, let me know and I will stand right behind you 100% of the way in support and encouragement.

Again, I do feel your pain and I sincerely hope you will be able to find some sort of peace very, very soon.

From my heart to yours,

Gaye

Hi,
I live in New Hampshire, and have learned that in NH it is the law to have a health certificate from the breeders vet stating that the kitten is in good health. While with the breeder, my kittens were never even seen by a vet until I took them home. The vaccination booklet that the breeder gave me has a copy of the label from the bottle of serum she used to vaccinate my kittens showing the expiration date of 1/2004, and kitten vaccinated in July 2004. I do have the parents pedigrees, and the breeder herself told me they were closely bred prior to my purchase, which at the time, was not a concern, as I trusted her to sell me healthy kittens etc...
The brother that she retired was the kitten I originally wanted to purchase from her, but she talked me out of it because she wanted to keep him for her
breeding program, but once I notified her of the 1st sick kitten she quickly sold him, the mother and father, so she claims, as far as I know the brother may have had FIP too.
I am just stating the facts that I have proof of, and I am not a mean person, but I have to do something. In my heart, I want my babies to know that I am doing all I can for them. This was just not right what she did. My sweet babies had to suffer because of her ignorence!!!!!! I am also not bashing breeders, just this particular one that deserves it. She should get FIP, and see what its like!!!! Sorry, but I have to vent!