Odd post-checkup behavior

Hi everyone,
I could really use some feedback right now.
Eponine had her annual checkup yesterday. She had 3 shots: rabies, feline lukemia, and Fvrcp+c (whatever that one is). It has been 26 hours since she had those shots. When we first got home from the vet, she ate and acted normal. About an hour later (I'm assuming that's when the shots kicked in) she went under the bed and didn't come out all night. I left her food, water, and litterbox very close to the bed this morning when I left for work (since she's probably sore, I didn't want her to go far). Well, it doesn't look like any of it has been touched all day! And her favorite mousey is exactly where I left it, so I know she didn't feel like playing today. She's awake and under my bed right now. She's not crying or anything, but is it NORMAL for cats to be this scared and tired a day after getting their annual? I don't remember her being like this last year (though my memory is admittably very bad).
Anything y'all may offer that may stop me from worrying would be greatly welcomed!
Amy

Amy when they have their shots they can sometimes be like this. I won't let my two have the leukemia vaccine now, but when i just had Rosie and she had it we came home then about two hours later she went straight up to her bedroom and just wanted to curl up in the peace and quiet.

She never ate or drank, and i rang the emergency vet who told me that this was normal for the first 24 hours but if it went on longer to give them a ring.

Thankfully the following day she was back to her normal self

Does your vet have an emergency number just to call them and ask advice?

Originally Posted by ugaimes

... Eponine ... had 3 shots: rabies, feline lukemia, and Fvrcp+c (whatever that one is).

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It is Feline Rhinotraceitis, Calici Virus and Panleukopenia plus Clamydia. It is also known to some as a "4 in 1" or some simply refer to it as a "distemper" booster even though cats do not get distemper, they get panleukopenia.

Originally Posted by ugaimes

... It has been 26 hours since she had those shots ... I know she didn't feel like playing today. She's awake and under my bed right now. She's not crying or anything, but is it NORMAL for cats to be this scared and tired a day after getting their annual? I don't remember her being like this last year (though my memory is admittably very bad).

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As rosiemac pointed out, a lot of kitties can and do feel sort of punk after their boosters, especially when they get all of them at once like your Eponine has. It is a pretty big jolt to her immune system to have all that stuff go in there at once like that - picture a large invasion of bugs and a single cat trying to chase after this one then that one - her little immune system is on absolute overtime trying to develop a sufficient amount of antibodies! If she is still feeling poorly tonight into tomorrow morning or if her symptoms worsen at all, then by all means, give a call to the vet or vet emergency clinic and ask if they think she should be seen.

Maybe next year when her annual boosters are due, you could schedule them about 10 days apart - over the month instead of lumping everything into one visit. It might allow her system to recover a bit before her immune system gets the next big jolt.

May I ask why you feel the need to vaccinate against feline leukemia? There are differing opinions on it so I wanted to see your reasoning before discussing it further.

I sincerely hope Eponine is feeling spunky again real soon. Give her a little more time to hide and "regather her peas" as my mother is fond of saying *grin*. But if you THINK something is really wrong, it probably is - you know your girl better than anyone else. Follow your gut.

Hope this helps a little.

Gaye

Hi Amy sweets~~ Yes it can happen that there's a kind of delayed stress syndrome.... the last immunization I believe is distemper. Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, though. How much does she weigh? - that can be a factor, if Eppie is petite and I don't recall exactly from her photos....but like Susan says, a simple phone call can't hurt and that's what they're there for.

Hi--I am so sorry Eponine is not feeling well. Sending you good thoughts. Music was lethargic and wouldn't come out for two days following her distemper and feluke shots. She is ok now. I did have a kitty suffer a very bad reaction to a shot so my heart goes out to you. I have a friend whose kitty gets very sick and hiding every year and he really struggles with what to do.

It's multiple, repeated and live vaccinations that can bring on problems to my understanding. (i asked them to give one at a time for reasons already mentioned but lady vet ignored me, took her in back and then i saw the receipt after. I also asked not to have feluke shot. I don't see that vet anymore.) I would like to hear more about the differing opinions on that.

get better soon Eponine!!

Thank you so much everyone for your posts.
Eponine is 8.4 pounds (the vet even said she needs to gain about a pound), so you all are right....it was just a lot on her body. She is up and about now, sniffing my boyfriend and I and eating the treats I give her. I can tell her hindquarters (where they gave her the shots) are still sore b/c she didn't do her "big stretch" that she likes to do whenever I go to pick her up But she seems OK other than that.
One question, though: It seems that cats do not need feline lukemia vaccinations each year? What do you all know about that? I just assumed that I should always get all of the vaccinations that the vet recommends each year.
That's a new one to me!
Again, thank you everyone for your kind words and input. It helped de-stress me immensely!
Amy

Originally Posted by glowbugm

... It's multiple, repeated and live vaccinations that can bring on problems to my understanding. (i asked them to give one at a time for reasons already mentioned but lady vet ignored me, took her in back and then i saw the receipt after. I also asked not to have feluke shot. I don't see that vet anymore.) !!

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~Very~ smart move on your part. Sheesh, the absolute nerve of some people - it just makes me crazy(er)! I am of the opinion that if I am expected to pay for something, then by Golly, I have a right to KNOW as well as APPROVE of what I am paying for beforehand. I do battle with vets (as well as other professionals - I don't single out vets, but it may seem that way LOL) about stuff I think is unnecessary and serves only to pad the bottom line. You know, I actually had one vet tell me "Well, I am in business to make money. I can't do that if I don't provide the services." Well DUGH! If I don't WANT the services, then why should I have to pay for them just because YOU need to send your kids to college someday?????

Originally Posted by glowbugm

I would like to hear more about the differing opinions on that.

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Well, my opinions are just that - my opinions. Your mileage may vary. *grin*

On the subject of the Feline Leukemia Virus Vaccine ...

In short, I don't like it. I don't vaccinate my cats with it. My Kitten Sales Agreement states clearly that if you do choose to vaccinate one of my kittens with it, my health guarantee for that kitten goes flying right out the front door.

Feline Leukemia Virus is the leading viral killer of cats. There is no disputing that. But, as I see it, the individuals most at risk of infection are young outdoor cats, indoor/outdoor cats and cats exposed to such individuals. So, it would be safe, IMO, to test and vaccinate ANY and ALL cats who fall under any or all of those categories. However, indoor-only cats with ~no~ exposure to potentially infected cats are unlikely to become infected. So, why vaccinate if there is no risk?

And just as a bit of a caution ... ~All~ cats should be tested prior to vaccination if you must vaccinate. Since the incubation period of Feline Leukemia can be over 3 years, if a cat is in the incubation state of the disease prior to vaccination and if the tests that determine whether or not a cat has Feline Leukemia DO NOT show a positive if the virus is in the incubation stage, why vaccinate since the vaccine will not prevent the disease.

Well, the answer can be found in how a for-profit business entity runs ... and they run to serve only one purpose - to make money. And if vets start having a bunch of people coming in saying they don't want this or they don't want that, then jeepers, how are they gonna make money???? See a trend here? It almost seems as if they don't want us to educate ourselves, doesn't it?



Oh and let us not forget that the Feline Leukemia Virus has also been implicated in causing Feline Vaccination-Associated Sarcoma, but the jury is still out on that one the way I see it. After conducting a lot of unscientific research on the topic, I am on the side of believing that whether or not a cat acquires FVAS is a genetic toss of the dice in the domestic cat population. Just because they find a few components of the vaccine adjuvant in the tumor doesn't convince me - there are early results from studies currently underway showing that a tumor will develop in cats genetically hospitable from the injection of nothing more than sterile water. I want to wait a little longer yet.

Sorry you asked me to expand yet? *grin*

I now return you the the on-topic thread, already in progress ...

Originally Posted by ugaimes

One question, though: It seems that cats do not need feline lukemia vaccinations each year? What do you all know about that? I just assumed that I should always get all of the vaccinations that the vet recommends each year.

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Well, I am of the opinion that if they are not in any of the high-risk categories, they don't need it at all.

As for assuming you should do what the vet tells you ... first let me say that I have absolutely NO faith in the practice of medical science in any specialty anymore. Ever wonder why it is called "practicing" ???? Since it is a personal issue with me, it may very well color my opinions. But, after sharing my home with cats for as long as I've been alive and after raising a child with health issues, I always either research what the vet (or doctor for that matter) tells me to do and I ask a LOT of questions as to why he or she tells me to do something. I don't necessarily always take his recommendations as the Gospel truth. As I said in my previous post, it almost seems as though they don't want us to be educated so they can recommend things we don't know about and then have to pay for. I just don't like it and I haven't yet found a vet (or a doctor) that doesn't try and get away with it. Makes me mad.

~gf~

Hello--well, firstly I am very very glad Eponine is feeling better. That's most important.

It is my understanding that if cats haven't gotten it in their first year, they usually have acquired a natural immunity so it doesn't make as much sense for an older cat to get it. Esp. if they had it before. That redoing vaxes can harm the cat, even activate the whatever it is. Is this bunk? For this is what I have learned. Bearing in mind that almost all of my cats have been older rescues and I do not know what their history is, i then assume--they had the shot or they have the immunity. i also have tested every one of them before they get in the house. they all have come up negative, but that was good to learn about the 3 years incubation. geez. i retested the one i have had almost two years but i will have to do it again it seems. i don't like the vax either. i thought it has been implicated in more problems than other vaxes. maybe i don't know what i am talking about---but....music got her first (that i know of) and last feluke shot a couple months ago. i will never give her one again. she's been inside since she showed up. i also thought the rabies vax was very hard on them, and ....i don't do that one either. i thought that was pretty much for human's protection, not cats.

as gayef said (and the way you say it cracks me up! and, i am not sorry you expanded) these are my opinions and my opinions only. and some of my opinions are so shockingly radical, i am afraid to post them!!! also it is my understanding that the immunity protection can last for years. and here is what i know for sure--i have learned the hard way not to let them vaccinate an old sick cat (cancer/heart disease). why would that be a good idea? to take an ailing being and hit it's immune system? one was done at the shelter when i adopted a girl who had been sick but they didn't know she had cancer, one was done without our permission ("well, it's for her protection") was the reply. yes, dead is certainly protected.

well said about not trusting medical profession!!!!! the reason i am with my current vet, and believe me i have fired several, largely for bad reactions of my pets (including death) is because on first meeting he said, and i quote "mommy knows best" he may not always know everything but he clearly cares more about my pets than his pocketbook, and more than he cares about me. and that is what i want.

my friend's cat is 8 years old, has been vaccinated every year, lives with no other kittys and lives exclusively indoors. the kitty gets very sick following vaxes, for 2 weeks the last couple of years. the vet will not hear of him not getting vaccinated again this year. (what if a bat flys in the window? vet say) so my friend is looking elsewhere for someone who can do one at a time. and can't find that.

ok i may have hijacked too in which case i hand it back!! but i am so glad eponine is feeling better.

Mayree, I have always found your insights incredibly educating and fascinating. You have a very special gift and for that, Saba was lucky to have you as her rescue auntie. I wish you would share more onthe Boards and look forward to when you feel comfortable enough to do so.

I agree with not giving the leukemia shots also.

I discussed it with my vet and my vet nurse friend Emma who both said that at the end of the day it's down to personal choice and that there are talks going on at the moment as to wether cats need the leukemia shots every year, but because Rosie and Sophie are indoor cats the chance of them getting out are very slim*Touches wood* but they both backed me up with my decision.

So i then decided that they would only get the flu/enteritis shot as this is something i can bring in with me should i have touched another animal who had it.

Thank you EVERYONE for all of your kind words and VERY insightful info on the feline lukemia vaccinations. I have decided that I will probably not give Eponine that vaccination next year as she is an indoor-only cat, never exposed to the outdoors or strange cats. I am so furious that vets will give little kitties that shot without even ASKING us pet owners if we want us or educating us on when it is or is not appropriate, all to make some $$$ Argh.
On a very positive note, Eponine is back to normal She's almost too good, actually. I didn't get a lick of sleep last night because all Eponine wanted to do was cuddle, nuzzle, and knead. But I'm not complaining- just happy to have my sweet baby girl back to normal Now if only we could work on that weight gain thing...

This will be Rosies second year without the leukemia jab and she's fine!

Amy thats great to hear about Eponine

I must go and read about her weight thread!

So you've kept Rosie and Sophe lukemia-vaccination free? How does Sophie do? I'm glad Rosie is luke-free

Sophies fine without it!

Rosies only had two leukemia jabs. The first lot when she was a kitten, then the other when she was 1 year old and she was unwell with it

It was after i heard reports about the leukemia jabs that i started looking into it and like i mentioned discussed it with my vet and Emma, so she never had it last year and won't be in june when they both go for their boosters.

So what boosters do your kitties get? Rabies? Anything else? I just hate giving my girl any more jabs than necessary!!

We don't need the rabies shots in the UK so only give them the flu/enteritis.

Originally Posted by rosiemac

We don't need the rabies shots in the UK so only give them the flu/enteritis.

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Oh man....I've said it before and I'll say it again....I am (someday) moving to Europe!

Correct me if I'm wrong someone, but I don't think it's Europe in general that's rabies free, but just the UK, because of the strict quarantine rules that have applied in the past and I believe still apply if your pet isn't vaccinated and tested for rabies.

You've got me rather worried about Leukaemia though. We have two indoor only Burmese, one indoor/outdoor tabby Raffles who would be difficult to convert to indoor only because he was a former stray. Vet's advice was that all would have to be vaccinated because the Burmese have contact with Raffles who goes out. I know two people who have lost cats to Leukaemia (the disease not the vaccination) so I know it's in the area. Surely my best option in these circumstances is to vaccinate?

They also are boarded at a cattery when we go on holiday. Would the leukaemia vaccination be necessary for this, or is it only passed on by actual contact, biting, scratching etc?

Jan don't start to panic chick! With Raffles being indoor/outdoor in this case i would say it would be best to give the leukemia jab, because i know as much as there is a worry over it i wouldn't like to see either of mine contract it if they were outdoors so i would give them it also!.

Even my friend who's the vet nurse still gives her cats it because they also go outside but she would rather not.

With the cattery, i put Rosie in one twice and Emma said now that i'm not giving the leukemia jab most catteries wouldn't let the animal in without it being on their vaccination record that you have to show them, but there is a way around it which is with a titre test(correct me if i'm wrong anyone) but i don't know if this applies to an indoor only cat?!.

If you have a look on the web it tells you lots about the leukemia jab, but don't worry too much.

Oh and i think your right about it only being the UK!.